Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-11-07 Thread J.N. Oliveira
Duncan Coutts wrote: On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 03:01 -0700, Michael Vanier wrote: Charles, Haskell is a wonderful language (my favorite language by far) but it is pretty difficult for a beginner. In fact, it is pretty difficult for anyone to learn in my experience, because it has so many

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-16 Thread Christopher Done
I believe that from Scheme to Haskell is a natural transition, as I made the same transition myself. If you grasp the fundamental concepts of Scheme, Haskell seems like a step up. I will describe Haskell in terms of Scheme: # Haskell programs are more correct from the ground up Scheme will let

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-16 Thread Daniel van den Eijkel
In an ideal world, Haskell would be a perfect first programming language. But consider: If someone without any programming background learns Haskell as first language, she or he might have big problems using any other language after that. Unlearning what you can do with Haskell is much harder

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-16 Thread Don Stewart
dvde: In an ideal world, Haskell would be a perfect first programming language. But consider: If someone without any programming background learns Haskell as first language, she or he might have big problems using any other language after that. Unlearning what you can do with Haskell is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-16 Thread Christopher Done
2009/7/16 Daniel van den Eijkel d...@gmx.net: In an ideal world, Haskell would be a perfect first programming language. But consider: If someone without any programming background learns Haskell as first language, she or he might have big problems using any other language after that.

[Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Simon Peyton-Jones
Haskell is a great language! Check out haskell.org. I'm ccing the Haskell Cafe which is read by many people better qualified to answer your question than me. (Since I've been working on Haskell for many years, I am not well qualified to say how it seems to a beginner.) S | -Original

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Andrew Butterfield
Simon Peyton-Jones wrote: Haskell is a great language! Check out haskell.org. I'm ccing the Haskell Cafe which is read by many people better qualified to answer your question than me. (Since I've been working on Haskell for many years, I am not well qualified to say how it seems to a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Joe Fredette
If only for the fact that our little Haskell community is composed of about the nicest set of people ever -- I mean, try asking a newbie question on #c sometime -- then Haskell is a great language to learn early. Not only is it great because of it's community, but it's also full of resources

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Michael Vanier
Simon Peyton-Jones wrote: Haskell is a great language! Check out haskell.org. I'm ccing the Haskell Cafe which is read by many people better qualified to answer your question than me. (Since I've been working on Haskell for many years, I am not well qualified to say how it seems to a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Miguel Mitrofanov
I disagree. It was easy enough for me. OK, I do have some Category Theory background and it certainly helps a lot. Still, I think that for a beginner (without any experience with C or anything like that) Haskell would be relatively easy. It doesn't involve (at least at the start) an ugly

Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Bulat Ziganshin
Hello Michael, Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:01:44 PM, you wrote: Haskell is a wonderful language (my favorite language by far) but it is pretty difficult for a beginner. i believe that Haskell is hard for intermediate programmers already knowing any imperative language, but for beginners it

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Duncan Coutts
On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 03:01 -0700, Michael Vanier wrote: Charles, Haskell is a wonderful language (my favorite language by far) but it is pretty difficult for a beginner. In fact, it is pretty difficult for anyone to learn in my experience, because it has so many advanced concepts that

Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Ross Mellgren
I agree -- I think the most major learning curve problem (for me) was not learning haskell directly, it was un-learning all those patterns and workarounds and so on from imperative/OOP languages. Of course, the only problem with learning haskell first is that one will probably be mildly

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Thomas Davie
On 14 Jul 2009, at 13:48, Duncan Coutts wrote: On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 03:01 -0700, Michael Vanier wrote: Charles, Haskell is a wonderful language (my favorite language by far) but it is pretty difficult for a beginner. In fact, it is pretty difficult for anyone to learn in my experience,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Jake McArthur
Michael Vanier wrote: Haskell is a wonderful language (my favorite language by far) but it is pretty difficult for a beginner. In fact, it is pretty difficult for anyone to learn in my experience, because it has so many advanced concepts that simply don't exist in other languages, and trying

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Jeremy Shaw
At Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:01:44 -0700, Michael Vanier wrote: Haskell is a wonderful language (my favorite language by far) but it is pretty difficult for a beginner. In fact, it is pretty difficult for anyone to learn in my experience, because it has so many advanced concepts that simply

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Ahn, Ki Yung
Before teaching any data structure course, one MUST learn functional languages with ADTs. It makes everything so easy to understand. So, it MUST be a first language in every institution. The biggest reason that one should learn functional languages with algebraic data type(ADT)s first is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Haskell as a first language?

2009-07-14 Thread Matthias Görgens
It maybe be that Haskell is harder to learn as your *second* language because you have to unlearn things. Especially if your first language was something like C or Python. Python is not too bad. You can nearly use it a as a strict functional programming language. While this is not the