Jonathan Cast wrote:
On Friday 13 July 2007, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
Try not to care what other people think.
LOL! If only that were in fact physically possible...
Why not? I do it all the time...
Clearly you don't know me... I spend 80% of my
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 06:45:03PM -0400, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Jul 13, 2007, at 15:11 , Stefan O'Rear wrote:
There is no such thing as 8-bit ASCII - base assumes files contain
ISO-8859-1.
Hm, shouldn't it really be ISO-8859-15? (The
Hello Andrew,
Friday, July 13, 2007, 11:01:24 PM, you wrote:
definitely. for example, on windows it doesn't support unicode
filenames nor files bigger than 4gb
so i use my own lib, a thin layer around Windows API
Has a bug been reported for this? Have you (or anyone else) thought
about
Hello Andrew,
Thursday, July 12, 2007, 10:15:00 PM, you wrote:
While BOMs (Byte Order Mark) are pretty irrelevant to byte-oriented
encodings like UTF-8, I think programs that fail on their presence can
be considered buggy.
Yay! Haskell's text I/O system is buggy. :-P
definitely. for
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 19:15 +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
While BOMs (Byte Order Mark) are pretty irrelevant to byte-oriented
encodings like UTF-8, I think programs that fail on their presence can
be considered buggy.
Yay! Haskell's text I/O system is buggy. :-P
Works for me, but feel free
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 10:26:38AM +0200, Ketil Malde wrote:
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 19:15 +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
While BOMs (Byte Order Mark) are pretty irrelevant to byte-oriented
encodings like UTF-8, I think programs that fail on their presence can
be considered buggy.
Yay!
Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
By the way Andrew, have you noticed that you're generating 50% of the
traffic on this list? Perhaps we can work a bit more on improving the
signal/noise ratio. My inbox can only take so much of this... ;)
o_O
My God... even the Haskell mailing list is
Bulat Ziganshin wrote:
Hello Andrew,
Yay! Haskell's text I/O system is buggy. :-P
definitely. for example, on windows it doesn't support unicode
filenames nor files bigger than 4gb
...OK, that's quite worrying...
so i use my own lib, a thin layer around Windows API
Has a bug
Ketil Malde wrote:
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 19:15 +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
While BOMs (Byte Order Mark) are pretty irrelevant to byte-oriented
encodings like UTF-8, I think programs that fail on their presence can
be considered buggy.
Yay! Haskell's text I/O system is buggy.
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 08:05:36PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Ketil Malde wrote:
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 19:15 +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
While BOMs (Byte Order Mark) are pretty irrelevant to byte-oriented
encodings like UTF-8, I think programs that fail on their presence can
be
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 08:05:36PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
I was actually commenting on the other guy's remark that anything that
chokes on a BOM can be considered buggy - not entirely seriously. ;-)
If there is a bug to be reported, it is merely that [the GHC
Bryan O'Sullivan wrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
Oh well, the problem is easily fixed... *sigh*
I doubt that anybody minds having you talk about Haskell. You've been
responsible for spawning a lot of interesting threads.
[And that one about compression that's still going on somewhere...
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 08:57:58PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Bryan O'Sullivan wrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
Oh well, the problem is easily fixed... *sigh*
I doubt that anybody minds having you talk about Haskell. You've been
responsible for spawning a lot of interesting threads.
[And
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 08:57:58PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
- Join us on #haskell on IRC. It's extremely chatty, and you'll be
welcome.
Not in my experience, no.
(Maybe I ask the wrong way... but almost everybody seems to simply ignore
me. Actually, usually
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
Don does not speak for the whole community, I for one am fine with
answering all these questions :)
I guess when somebody as important as Don says something, you take notice...
Specifically, Don really wants you to get off of the mailing list and
ask all these
On Jul 13, 2007, at 15:11 , Stefan O'Rear wrote:
There is no such thing as 8-bit ASCII - base assumes files contain
ISO-8859-1.
Hm, shouldn't it really be ISO-8859-15? (The difference being that
-1 predates the euro symbol.)
--
brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell]
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 06:45:03PM -0400, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Jul 13, 2007, at 15:11 , Stefan O'Rear wrote:
There is no such thing as 8-bit ASCII - base assumes files contain
ISO-8859-1.
Hm, shouldn't it really be ISO-8859-15? (The difference being that -1
predates the
On Friday 13 July 2007, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
Don does not speak for the whole community, I for one am fine with
answering all these questions :)
I guess when somebody as important as Don says something, you take
notice...
Specifically, Don really wants you to get
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Jonathan Cast wrote:
On Tuesday 10 July 2007, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
Consider the ST monad, which lets you use update-in-place, but is
escapable (unlike IO). ST actions have the form:
ST s α
Meaning that they return a value of type
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Albert Y. C. Lai wrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
Wait... I thought Unicode was still an experimental prototype? Since
when does it work in the real world??
That myth is as old as Haskell is an experimental prototype. Old as
in that's an old one.
Windows has been well
On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 09:12:14AM +0200, Henning Thielemann wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Jonathan Cast wrote:
On Tuesday 10 July 2007, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
Consider the ST monad, which lets you use update-in-place, but is
escapable (unlike IO). ST actions
On Thursday 12 July 2007, Henning Thielemann wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Albert Y. C. Lai wrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
Wait... I thought Unicode was still an experimental prototype? Since
when does it work in the real world??
That myth is as old as Haskell is an experimental prototype.
On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 20:10 +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
When I tell the editor to save UTF-8, it inserts some weird BOM
character at the start of the file - and thus, any attempt at
programatically processing that file instantly fails. :-(
While BOMs (Byte Order Mark) are pretty irrelevant
Albert Y. C. Lai wrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
When I tell the editor to save UTF-8, it inserts some weird BOM
character at the start of the file - and thus, any attempt at
programatically processing that file instantly fails. :-(
I know Windows Notepad puts a BOM at the beginning of UTF-8
On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 07:01:31PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Let me put it this way: It makes all my Tcl scripts stop working, and it
makes my Haskell-based processor go nuts too...
Given that (IIRC) the BOM is just a valid unicode non-breaking space,
your scripts really ought to cope...
On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 09:24:24PM +0100, Philip Armstrong wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 07:01:31PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Let me put it this way: It makes all my Tcl scripts stop working, and it
makes my Haskell-based processor go nuts too...
Given that (IIRC) the BOM is just a valid
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:24:24 +0100, you wrote:
Given that (IIRC) the BOM is just a valid unicode non-breaking space,
your scripts really ought to cope...
Choking on the BOM is probably just a symptom of a deeper problem. My
bet is that removing the BOM would simply delay the failure until the
On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 04:58:43PM -0400, Steve Schafer wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:24:24 +0100, you wrote:
Given that (IIRC) the BOM is just a valid unicode non-breaking space,
your scripts really ought to cope...
Choking on the BOM is probably just a symptom of a deeper problem. My
bet
andrewcoppin:
Ketil Malde wrote:
On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 20:10 +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
When I tell the editor to save UTF-8, it inserts some weird BOM
character at the start of the file - and thus, any attempt at
programatically processing that file instantly fails. :-(
On Jul 12, 2007, at 20:48 , Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
By the way Andrew, have you noticed that you're generating 50% of the
traffic on this list? Perhaps we can work a bit more on improving the
signal/noise ratio. My inbox can only take so much of this... ;)
I can blather more, if you'd
AC Wait... I thought Unicode was still an experimental prototype?
AC Since when does it work in the real world??
What? There was time when Unicode was not working
Sorry... couldn't help saying that...
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Haskell-Cafe mailing list
On 10/07/07, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Interesting... I tried to put a pound sign on my web page, and it came
out garbled, so I had to replace it with pound;...
You may need to specify a content encoding in the HTML header. For
that, you need to know the encoding your HTML file is
Paul Moore wrote:
On 10/07/07, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Interesting... I tried to put a pound sign on my web page, and it came
out garbled, so I had to replace it with pound;...
You may need to specify a content encoding in the HTML header. For
that, you need to know the
Jonathan Cast wrote:
toUpper :: exists x. x - x works for only one choice of x.
Are you sure that's not:
toUpper :: exists x. x - x works for *at least one* choice of x
?
I'm not sure about the haskell meaning, but the logic meaning is
definitely this. For example:
forall x:Integer.
Paul Moore wrote:
On 10/07/07, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Interesting... I tried to put a pound sign on my web page, and it came
out garbled, so I had to replace it with pound;...
You may need to specify a content encoding in the HTML header. For
that, you need to know the
Bulat Ziganshin wrote:
Hello Andrew,
Hmm. Like the IO monad's RealWorld object, which isn't really there?
ST and IO monads are the same beast. in ST, s is free to allow to
create endless amount of independent threads while in IO it fixed to
one type and describes evolution of one
Albert Y. C. Lai wrote:
Lest I am painted as unhelpful(*), http://www.vex.net/~trebla/u.html
exemplifies what can be done and how to do it. In particular, you must
always specify a content encoding in the HTML header, and you must
always order your editor to write out UTF-8.
When I tell the
Hallo,
On 7/11/07, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When I tell the editor to save UTF-8, it inserts some weird BOM
character at the start of the file - and thus, any attempt at
programatically processing that file instantly fails. :-(
Are you sure it's not UTF-16?
Cheers,
--
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:10:00 +0100, you wrote:
When I tell the editor to save UTF-8, it inserts some weird BOM
character at the start of the file - and thus, any attempt at
programatically processing that file instantly fails. :-(
Which means that your processor doesn't properly understand
On Wednesday 11 July 2007, Martin Percossi wrote:
Jonathan Cast wrote:
toUpper :: exists x. x - x works for only one choice of x.
Are you sure that's not:
toUpper :: exists x. x - x works for *at least one* choice of x
Not quite. When you give a constructive proof of exists x. x - x, you
Well, Haskell defines the IO type to be abstract, so if IO and ST happen to
be the same it's implementation dependent.
-- Lennart
On 7/11/07, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Andrew,
Tuesday, July 10, 2007, 11:49:37 PM, you wrote:
...so the 's' doesn't really exist, it's
On Wednesday 11 July 2007, Lennart Augustsson wrote:
Well, Haskell defines the IO type to be abstract, so if IO and ST happen to
be the same it's implementation dependent.
And if IO uses a RealWorld type, that's implementation dependent too. But
it's still useful to understand both RealWorld
Yes, that's one way to define IO. But it's not the only way.
On 7/11/07, Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wednesday 11 July 2007, Lennart Augustsson wrote:
Well, Haskell defines the IO type to be abstract, so if IO and ST happen
to
be the same it's implementation dependent.
And if
On Jul 11, 2007, at 15:23 , Alex Queiroz wrote:
On 7/11/07, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When I tell the editor to save UTF-8, it inserts some weird BOM
character at the start of the file - and thus, any attempt at
programatically processing that file instantly fails. :-(
Are
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
GNOME's gedit, for one, has a tendency to put byte order marks at the
beginning of every line in UTF8 mode.
Somehow I have never got a single BOM. My
http://www.vex.net/~trebla/u.html was written out by GNOME gedit.
Version 2.14.4.
On Jul 11, 2007, at 18:52 , Albert Y. C. Lai wrote:
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
GNOME's gedit, for one, has a tendency to put byte order marks at
the beginning of every line in UTF8 mode.
Somehow I have never got a single BOM. My http://www.vex.net/
~trebla/u.html was written out by
2007/7/10, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I stand in awe of people who actually understand what universal and
existential actually mean... To me, these are just very big words that
sound impressive.
The following is only my own understanding, please correct me if it's
totally wrong!
(and
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 09:57:14PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
(BTW... How in the hell do you get symbols like that in plain ASCII??)
You can't, but the most commonly used replacement for ASCII
(Unicode-UTF8) supports them just fine.
Wait... I thought Unicode
On Tuesday 10 July 2007, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 09:57:14PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
(BTW... How in the hell do you get symbols like that in plain ASCII??)
You can't, but the most commonly used replacement for ASCII
(Unicode-UTF8) supports
Hallo,
On 7/10/07, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Last time I looked, everything treats text as being 8 bits per
character. (Or, more commonly, 7, and if the MSB isn't 0, weird things
happen...) That's why (for example) HTML has lots of weird constructs
such as hellip; in it, instead
Andrew Coppin wrote:
Wait... I thought Unicode was still an experimental prototype? Since
when does it work in the real world??
That myth is as old as Haskell is an experimental prototype. Old as
in that's an old one.
Windows has been well supporting Unicode since 2000. That is pretty much
Albert Y. C. Lai wrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
Wait... I thought Unicode was still an experimental prototype? Since
when does it work in the real world??
That myth is as old as Haskell is an experimental prototype. Old
as in that's an old one.
Windows has been well supporting Unicode since
We can consider three families of character sets:
- ASCII: 127 characters, some of which are escape codes like bell etc
- regional encodings: china uses GB2312, Europe uses ISO-8859-1, America
uses ... something
- unicode: UTF-8, UTF-16
The regional encodings are optimized for their region, and
On Wednesday 11 July 2007 05:49, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Last time I checked, nobody was keen on using 64 bits per
character...
Hence the UTF-8 encoding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utf-8
Alexis.
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Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org
On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 09:05:55PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
OK, can somebody explain to me *really slowly* exactly what the difference
between an existential type and a rank-N type is?
(I couldn't find much of use on the wiki. I have now in fact written some
stuff there myself, but since
OK, can somebody explain to me *really slowly* exactly what the
difference between an existential type and a rank-N type is?
(I couldn't find much of use on the wiki. I have now in fact written
some stuff there myself, but since I don't understand it in the first
place, I'm having difficulty
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
All users should worry about is Quantifiers.
A quantifier is an operator on types which defines a variable in some
way.
OK...
id has type :: ∀α. α → α
toUpper (can) have type :: ∃α. α → α
So... you're saying that id:: x - x works for *every* possible choice
of
On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 09:57:14PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Stefan O'Rear wrote:
id has type :: ∀α. α → α
toUpper (can) have type :: ∃α. α → α
So... you're saying that id:: x - x works for *every* possible choice of
x, but toUpper :: x - x works for *one* possible choice of x?
Andrew Coppin wrote:
I stand in awe of people who actually understand what universal and
existential actually mean... To me, these are just very big words that
sound impressive.
I offer to relieve that with http://www.vex.net/~trebla/allsome.txt
I think of formal logic as clarifying thought
On 7/9/07, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, can somebody explain to me *really slowly* exactly what the
difference between an existential type and a rank-N type is?
One important difference is that Hugs supports existential
quantification, but not rank-N types. (It does support
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