Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-23 Thread Ryan Ingram
])) else do f (Roll (z ++ [throw])) --- On *Wed, 12/22/10, Ozgur Akgun ozgurak...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Ozgur Akgun ozgurak...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this? To: Ryan Ingram ryani.s...@gmail.com Cc: haskell-cafe@haskell.org, Daniel

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-22 Thread Ryan Ingram
leim...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=leim...@gmail.com * wrote: From: David Leimbach leim...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=leim...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this? To: michael rice nowg...@yahoo.comhttp://mc/compose?to=nowg...@yahoo.com Cc

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-22 Thread Daniel Fischer
On Wednesday 22 December 2010 12:03:01, Ryan Ingram wrote: Huh, that's weird, I just copy and pasted this into a new file and it worked for me. As a guess, you have mtl-1.*? In mtl-2.*, State s is made a type synonym for StateT s Identity, so there's no longer a data constructor State.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-22 Thread Ryan Ingram
Interesting. In that case, state f = StateT $ \s - Identity (f s) allows state to replace State in that code. On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com wrote: On Wednesday 22 December 2010 12:03:01, Ryan Ingram wrote: Huh, that's weird, I just copy and

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-22 Thread Ozgur Akgun
see also: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/mtl/latest/doc/html/Control-Monad-State-Lazy.html#v:state On 22 December 2010 20:02, Ryan Ingram ryani.s...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting. In that case, state f = StateT $ \s - Identity (f s) allows state to replace State in that code.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-22 Thread michael rice
]))   else do f (Roll (z ++ [throw])) --- On Wed, 12/22/10, Ozgur Akgun ozgurak...@gmail.com wrote: From: Ozgur Akgun ozgurak...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this? To: Ryan Ingram ryani.s...@gmail.com Cc: haskell-cafe@haskell.org, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-21 Thread Ryan Ingram
/10, David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com* wrote: From: David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this? To: michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com Cc: haskell-cafe@haskell.org, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-21 Thread michael rice
/21/10, Ryan Ingram ryani.s...@gmail.com wrote: From: Ryan Ingram ryani.s...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this? To: michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com Cc: David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com, haskell-cafe@haskell.org Date

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-21 Thread michael rice
Ingram ryani.s...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this? To: michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com Cc: David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com, haskell-cafe@haskell.org Date: Tuesday, December 21, 2010, 7:00 PM First, let's make some

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread Christopher Wilson
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't understand this error message. Haskell appears not to understand that 1 is a Num. Prelude :t 1 1 :: (Num t) = t Prelude :t [1,2,3,4,5] [1,2,3,4,5] :: (Num t) = [t] Prelude Michael === f

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread aditya siram
I think it is giving you the error because you the fmap in your code is operating on the IO monad and not the List monad. In order to get it to work, you can remove the IO layer with = as below: f :: [Int] - IO [Int] f lst = do return lst main = do let lst = f [1,2,3,4,5] lst = return

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread Antoine Latter
This is a bit tricky. The type of 'f' is '[Int] - IO [Int]', which means that the type of 'lst' is 'IO [Int]'. So fmap (+1) tries to add one to the [Int] underneath the 'IO' type constructor. You can either use two 'fmap's, the first to lift up to IO and the second to lift into the list, or you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread Mads Lindstrøm
Hi Michael The type of lst is IO [Int] and therefore fmap (+1) applies (+1) to the hole lists of integers, and not to each member of the list. That is: fmap (+1) lst = fmap (+1) (return [1,2,3,4,5]) = return ([1,2,3,4,5] + 1) and you cannot say [1,2,3,4,5] + 1. Does that make sense? Maybe

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread aditya siram
To make that a little clearer, here is code that uses two calls to fmap to drill through two monadic layers: f :: [Int] - IO [Int] f lst = do return lst main = do let lst = f [1,2,3,4,5] fmap (fmap (+1)) lst So the order of operations is : 1. The first fmap converts an IO [Int] to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread David Leimbach
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:04 AM, michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't understand this error message. Haskell appears not to understand that 1 is a Num. Prelude :t 1 1 :: (Num t) = t Prelude :t [1,2,3,4,5] [1,2,3,4,5] :: (Num t) = [t] Prelude Michael === f ::

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread Daniel Peebles
Write out more types and it'll get more clear. f is [Int] - IO [Int] lst is f applied to Num a = [a], so it is of type IO [Int] fmap is applied to lst, which means it's stepping inside the IO. That means it's applying +1 to [1,2,3,4,5], which doesn't make much sense unless you have a Num

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread Christopher Done
On 17 December 2010 18:04, michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com wrote: === f :: [Int] - IO [Int] f lst = do return lst main = do let lst = f [1,2,3,4,5] fmap (+1) lst The problem is that you are applying fmap to a type IO a. fmap (+1) (return [1,2,3]) But to achieve

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread Thomas Davie
On 17 Dec 2010, at 21:44, Christopher Done wrote: On 17 December 2010 18:04, michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com wrote: === f :: [Int] - IO [Int] f lst = do return lst main = do let lst = f [1,2,3,4,5] fmap (+1) lst The problem is that you are applying fmap to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-18 Thread David Leimbach
stumped by something simple like this, but that's how one learns. Thanks again, Michael --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging

[Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-17 Thread michael rice
I don't understand this error message. Haskell appears not to understand that 1 is a Num. Prelude :t 1 1 :: (Num t) = t Prelude :t [1,2,3,4,5] [1,2,3,4,5] :: (Num t) = [t] Prelude Michael === f :: [Int] - IO [Int] f lst = do return lst main = do let lst = f [1,2,3,4,5]   

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-17 Thread Darrin Chandler
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 09:04:20AM -0800, michael rice wrote: I don't understand this error message. Haskell appears not to understand that 1 is a Num. Prelude :t 1 1 :: (Num t) = t Prelude :t [1,2,3,4,5] [1,2,3,4,5] :: (Num t) = [t] Prelude Michael === f ::

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-17 Thread Miguel Mitrofanov
On 17 Dec 2010, at 20:04, michael rice wrote: I don't understand this error message. Haskell appears not to understand that 1 is a Num. As it clearly states in the error message, it doesn't understand that [Int] is a Num - and it's not. No instance for Num something usually indicates that

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-17 Thread michael rice
like this, but that's how one learns. Thanks again, Michael --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com wrote:     From: Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com     Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?     To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-17 Thread michael rice
...@gmail.com wrote: From: David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this? To: michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com Cc: haskell-cafe@haskell.org, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@googlemail.com Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:45 PM No problem.  Haskell is a different

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell flagging this?

2010-12-17 Thread Daniel Fischer
On Friday 17 December 2010 18:04:20, michael rice wrote: I don't understand this error message. Haskell appears not to understand that 1 is a Num. Prelude :t 1 1 :: (Num t) = t Prelude :t [1,2,3,4,5] [1,2,3,4,5] :: (Num t) = [t] Prelude Michael === f :: [Int] - IO

[Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Job Vranish
Is haskell supposed to always infer the most general type (barring extensions)? I found a simple case where this is not true: f _ = undefined where _ = y :: Int - Int y x = undefined where _ = f x Haskell infers the types of 'y' and 'f' as: f :: Int - a y :: Int - Int This

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
On Apr 6, 2010, at 15:56 , Job Vranish wrote: Is haskell supposed to always infer the most general type (barring extensions)? Look up the monomorphism restriction. -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allb...@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread John Van Enk
I don't believe that the monomorphism restriction has anything to do with this. Removing it does not generalize the type. On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote: On Apr 6, 2010, at 15:56 , Job Vranish wrote: Is haskell supposed to always infer the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Edward Z. Yang
Excerpts from Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH's message of Tue Apr 06 16:46:28 -0400 2010: On Apr 6, 2010, at 15:56 , Job Vranish wrote: Is haskell supposed to always infer the most general type (barring extensions)? Look up the monomorphism restriction. Hey Brandon, I tested the code with

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Ross Paterson
On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 03:56:32PM -0400, Job Vranish wrote: f _ = undefined where _ = y :: Int - Int y x = undefined where _ = f x Because f and y are mutually recursive, their types are inferred together, so y gets the type Int - Int (as given), which forces f :: Int - a.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Job Vranish
So in Haskell 98, would the added constraints result in a type error? - Job On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Ross Paterson r...@soi.city.ac.uk wrote: On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 03:56:32PM -0400, Job Vranish wrote: f _ = undefined where _ = y :: Int - Int y x = undefined where

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Thomas Schilling
Yes, it has to do with mutually recursive bindings. If you add a type signature, you break the mutual recursion. Mutually recursive functions are type-checked together and then generalised. Similarly, polymorphic recursion cannot be inferred either, but is possible by adding a type signature.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread John Meacham
On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 03:56:32PM -0400, Job Vranish wrote: Why does haskell not infer the most general type for these functions? Is it a limitation of the algorithm? a limitation of the recursive let binding? Any insight would be appreciated :) This is due to when Haskell does

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Ross Paterson
On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 05:18:34PM -0400, Job Vranish wrote: So in Haskell 98, would the added constraints result in a type error? Yes, because the types of the mutually recursive identifiers would be inferred together without using the type signatures, and then would fail to match the declared

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell not infer most general type?

2010-04-06 Thread Job Vranish
Thank you all for your replies. This is all much more clear now :) - Job On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Ross Paterson r...@soi.city.ac.uk wrote: On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 05:18:34PM -0400, Job Vranish wrote: So in Haskell 98, would the added constraints result in a type error? Yes, because

[Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell used so little in the industry?

2010-02-19 Thread Gabi
I posted a question about it in StackOverflow (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2284875/why-is-haskell-used-so-little-in-the-industry) Haskell gets some beating there. Please Hasellers, join the discussion and give your opinion there. -- Regards, Gabi http://bugspy.net

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why can't Haskell be faster?

2007-11-01 Thread Hugh Perkins
On 10/31/07, Paulo J. Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I, along with some friends, have been looking to Haskell lately. I'm very happy with Haskell as a language, however, a friend sent me the link: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/ Careful: it's worse than you think. Many

[Haskell-cafe] Why can't Haskell be faster?

2007-10-31 Thread Paulo J. Matos
Hello all, I, along with some friends, have been looking to Haskell lately. I'm very happy with Haskell as a language, however, a friend sent me the link: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/ which enables you compare several language implementations. Haskell seems to lag behind of Clean. From

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why can't Haskell be faster?

2007-10-31 Thread manu
From what I've seen of Clean it seems almost like Haskell. It even distributes a Haskell-Clean translator so the obvious question is, why is Haskell slower? It's also something I've wondered about, and I'm curious about the answer... One of the differences between Haskell and Clean is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why can't Haskell be faster?

2007-10-31 Thread Adrian Hey
Paulo J. Matos wrote: Hello all, I, along with some friends, have been looking to Haskell lately. I'm very happy with Haskell as a language, however, a friend sent me the link: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/ which enables you compare several language implementations. Haskell seems to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why can't Haskell be faster?

2007-10-31 Thread Don Stewart
bf3: Are these benchmarks still up-to-date? When I started learning FP, I had to choose between Haskell and Clean, so I made a couple of little programs in both. GHC 6.6.1 with -O was faster in most cases, sometimes a lot faster... I don't have the source code anymore, but it was based on

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why can't Haskell be faster?

2007-10-31 Thread Peter Verswyvelen
Are these benchmarks still up-to-date? When I started learning FP, I had to choose between Haskell and Clean, so I made a couple of little programs in both. GHC 6.6.1 with -O was faster in most cases, sometimes a lot faster... I don't have the source code anymore, but it was based on the book

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell not homoiconic?

2006-10-31 Thread Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Henning Sato von Rosen wrote: I am curious as to why Haskell not is homoiconic? I am interested in the reasons behind that design descision. I ask using this defintion og homiconicity: Homiconic means that the primary representation of programs is also a data structure in a primitive type of

[Haskell-cafe] Why is Haskell not homoiconic?

2006-10-31 Thread Henning Sato von Rosen
Hi all! I am curious as to why Haskell not is homoiconic? I am interested in the reasons behind that design descision. I ask using this defintion og homiconicity: Homiconic means that the primary representation of programs is also a data structure in a primitive type of the language itself --

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-09 Thread Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho
Albert Lai wrote: Let's have a fun quiz! Guess the mainstream languages in question: Spoilers for the quiz 0. What language would allow 4[hello world] when a normal person would just write hello world[4] This is a classic C misfeature.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-09 Thread Robert Dockins
On Aug 8, 2006, at 5:36 PM, Albert Lai wrote: Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, the bottom line imho is that Haskell is a difficult language to understand, and this is compounded by the apparent cleverness of unreadable code like: c = (.) . (.) when a normal person would

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-09 Thread Donald Bruce Stewart
robdockins: On Aug 8, 2006, at 5:36 PM, Albert Lai wrote: Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, the bottom line imho is that Haskell is a difficult language to understand, and this is compounded by the apparent cleverness of unreadable code like: c = (.) . (.) when a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-08 Thread Albert Lai
Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, the bottom line imho is that Haskell is a difficult language to understand, and this is compounded by the apparent cleverness of unreadable code like: c = (.) . (.) when a normal person would just write: c f g a b = f (g a b) All

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-07 Thread Immanuel Litzroth
Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I meant even a non-programmer in the sense of even someone who is not a C hacker to show that the threat of people being able to steal code from a program is not the only source of problems that GPL could impose on a commercial application. No

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing)

2006-08-07 Thread Matthias Fischmann
On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 10:46:16AM +0100, Chris Kuklewicz wrote: [...] The GPL only gets in the way if you put it there by choosing to derive work from GPL code. Note that most commercial programs do not allow you the choice of deriving your work from theirs at all. The GPL adds to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing)

2006-08-07 Thread Chris Kuklewicz
There is a false statement that must be corrected, about NDA's. Matthias Fischmann wrote: On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 10:46:16AM +0100, Chris Kuklewicz wrote: [...] The GPL only gets in the way if you put it there by choosing to derive work from GPL code. Note that most commercial programs do

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing)

2006-08-07 Thread Udo Stenzel
Matthias Fischmann wrote: But if GPL is stuck to any part of the code and manages to infect the rest, the client can make you sign as many NDAs as there can be. The GPL still entitles you to sell it. Nonsense. The GPL says, *if* you distribute a binary, *then* you also have to distribute the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing)

2006-08-07 Thread Niklas Broberg
Note that there are many people who will not do work on a BSD project since a company can just come along and take it. People are free to choose GPL or BSD for their work and then other people are free to choose whether to derive work from them. But this is just the thing, isn't it? The GPL

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing)

2006-08-07 Thread Matthias Fischmann
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 12:57:47PM +0100, Chris Kuklewicz wrote: To: Matthias Fischmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: haskell-cafe@haskell.org From: Chris Kuklewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:57:47 +0100 Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing)

2006-08-07 Thread Udo Stenzel
Matthias Fischmann wrote: And it's really not as easy to control as you suggest: If you ever take in a single patch under the GPL, This kind of thing doesn't happen by accident. Patches don't magically creep into your code, you have to apply them deliberately and you should always know whether

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell? (sidenote on licensing)

2006-08-07 Thread Matthias Fischmann
Udo, us: mf: AFAIR this happened to SSH.com with the bigint code in ssh-v1.3 SSH included GMP, which was licensed under the GPL. Nothing happened there, only the OpenSSH folks disliked the license and reimplemented GMP. ... and had to fight an ugly battle over the question whether

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-06 Thread Piotr Kalinowski
On 06/08/06, Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Afaict a license such as GPL allows anyone, even a non-programmer, to just re-distribute whatever application you created because one condition of it is that anyone should be free to share software with anyone else without having to pay anything

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-06 Thread Chris Kuklewicz
Brian Hulley wrote: Henning Thielemann wrote: On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Brian Hulley wrote: 4) Haskell is open source and licensing restrictions forbid commercial applications. I haven't seen any such restrictions, but is this a problem for the standard modules? The reason you have no seen any

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-06 Thread Piotr Kalinowski
On 06/08/06, Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therefore I think this distinction between concepts is just sophistry. The distinction is there and relies on the community and people being honest to avoid situations as you described. If you don't want it however (well in this case relying

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-06 Thread Brian Hulley
Piotr Kalinowski wrote: On 06/08/06, Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therefore I think this distinction between concepts is just sophistry. The distinction is there and relies on the community and people being honest to avoid situations as you described. If you don't want it however

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-06 Thread Piotr Kalinowski
On 07/08/06, Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So now Ned, who's a very conscientious person, is faced with an impossiblemoral dilemma, ie a choice between helping Nick establish his business orlosing Homer (who's a bit slow when it comes to matters of conscience) as a friend.A good friend

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-05 Thread Bjorn Bringert
On Aug 4, 2006, at 11:10 PM, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Friday, August 4, 2006, 8:17:42 PM, you wrote: 1) Haskell is too slow for practical use, but the benchmarks I found appear to contradict this. it's an advertisement :D just check yourself 2) Input and output are not good enough, in

Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-05 Thread Bulat Ziganshin
Hello Kaveh, Saturday, August 5, 2006, 10:16:06 AM, you wrote: 1 - monads : there must be something to make a clear tool for a none-mathematician programmer. (I still have understanding problems with them). http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/IO_inside and All about monads 2 - there must be an

Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-05 Thread Bulat Ziganshin
Hello Bjorn, Saturday, August 5, 2006, 6:59:33 PM, you wrote: yes, thank you 2) Input and output are not good enough, in particular for graphical user interfacing and/or data base interaction. But it seems there are several user interfaces and SQL and other data base interfaces for Haskell,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-05 Thread Brian Hulley
Henning Thielemann wrote: On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Brian Hulley wrote: 4) Haskell is open source and licensing restrictions forbid commercial applications. I haven't seen any such restrictions, but is this a problem for the standard modules? You can discover the licensing situation by downloading

[Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Hans van Thiel
Hello All, I'm wondering why I can't find any commercial Haskell applications on the Internet. Is there any reason for this? I can think of the following possibilities only: 1) Haskell is too slow for practical use, but the benchmarks I found appear to contradict this. 2) Input and output are not

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Donn Cave
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Hans van Thiel wrote: ... Are there other reasons why there seem to be just a few thousand (hundred?) Haskell programmers in the world, compared to the 3 million Java programmers and x million C/C++ programmers? I can think of several other possible reasons - 6.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Brandon Moore
Hans van Thiel wrote: Hello All, I'm wondering why I can't find any commercial Haskell applications on the Internet. Is there any reason for this? I can think of the following possibilities only: 1) Haskell is too slow for practical use, but the benchmarks I found appear to contradict this. 2)

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Udo Stenzel
Hans van Thiel wrote: I'm wondering why I can't find any commercial Haskell applications on the Internet. Is there any reason for this? Of course. Corporations are conservative to the point of being boneheaded. So to avoid risk, they all went on the internet and said, Gee, I can't find any

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Brian Hulley
Hans van Thiel wrote: Hello All, I'm wondering why I can't find any commercial Haskell applications on the Internet. Is there any reason for this? I'm actually working on a Haskell program which I hope to release as a commercial application. The biggest problem I'm encountering is the lack

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Donn Cave
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Udo Stenzel wrote: Hans van Thiel wrote: I'm wondering why I can't find any commercial Haskell applications on the Internet. Is there any reason for this? Of course. Corporations are conservative to the point of being boneheaded. So to avoid risk, they all went on the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Henning Thielemann
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Brian Hulley wrote: 4) Haskell is open source and licensing restrictions forbid commercial applications. I haven't seen any such restrictions, but is this a problem for the standard modules? You can discover the licensing situation by downloading the GHC source (or

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Bulat Ziganshin
Hello Hans, Friday, August 4, 2006, 8:17:42 PM, you wrote: 1) Haskell is too slow for practical use, but the benchmarks I found appear to contradict this. it's an advertisement :D just check yourself 2) Input and output are not good enough, in particular for graphical user interfacing

Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread Bulat Ziganshin
Hello Jason, Friday, August 4, 2006, 10:01:31 PM, you wrote: 15. OO is now tried and true in industry. I would say it's far from optimal but people do know they can build large applications (say ~100k lines of C++). it's medium size. GHC is larger :) -- Best regards, Bulat

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Not Haskell?

2006-08-04 Thread ajb
G'day all. Quoting Udo Stenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Uh, this one's wrong. Does C++ of 15 years ago support today's programs? C++ of _today_ doesn't support today's programs in some cases. Just ask the Boost developers about the various workarounds they still have to deal with. No. C++ of 10

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Fritz Ruehr
On Jul 26, 2006, at 6:44 PM, Sebastian Sylvan wrote: For example ... if :: Bool - a - a - a if True t _ = t if False _ e = e -- example usage myAbs x = if (x 0) (negate x) x I suppose there might also be a case for flipping the arguments about like this: if :: a - a - Bool - a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Niklas Broberg
I often find myself at odds with this choice. The reason is that I use Haskell as a host for embedded languages, and these often come with their own control flows. So I find myself wanting to write my own definition of the if-then-else construct that works on terms of some other type, e.g. tests

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Tom Schrijvers
I often find myself at odds with this choice. The reason is that I use Haskell as a host for embedded languages, and these often come with their own control flows. So I find myself wanting to write my own definition of the if-then-else construct that works on terms of some other type, e.g. tests

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Chris Kuklewicz
Niklas Broberg wrote: I often find myself at odds with this choice. The reason is that I use Haskell as a host for embedded languages, and these often come with their own control flows. So I find myself wanting to write my own definition of the if-then-else construct that works on terms of some

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Henning Thielemann
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Fritz Ruehr wrote: On Jul 26, 2006, at 6:44 PM, Sebastian Sylvan wrote: For example ... if :: Bool - a - a - a if True t _ = t if False _ e = e -- example usage myAbs x = if (x 0) (negate x) x I suppose there might also be a case for flipping the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Jon Fairbairn
On 2006-07-27 at 01:33EDT Paul Hudak wrote: Thanks for asking about this -- it probably should be in the paper. Dan Doel's answer is closest to the truth: I imagine the answer is that having the syntax for it looks nicer/is clearer. if a b c could be more cryptic than if a then b

RE: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Simon Peyton-Jones
to put a feature request in Trac? Simon | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Niklas | Broberg | Sent: 27 July 2006 09:01 | To: Haskell-cafe | Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax? | | I often find myself

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Tomasz Zielonka
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 10:22:31AM +0100, Jon Fairbairn wrote: On 2006-07-27 at 01:33EDT Paul Hudak wrote: Thanks for asking about this -- it probably should be in the paper. Dan Doel's answer is closest to the truth: I imagine the answer is that having the syntax for it looks

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Jon Fairbairn
On 2006-07-27 at 13:01+0200 Tomasz Zielonka wrote: But because if-then-else is an expression, there is another problem. That was exactly my point when I made the muttering about self-bracketing (if ... fi, like everything else, is an expression in Algol68) all those years ago. I really regret

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Brian Hulley
Jon Fairbairn wrote: On 2006-07-27 at 13:01+0200 Tomasz Zielonka wrote: Also, after a few years of Haskell programming, I am still not sure how to indent if-then-else. what I was alluding to in my footnote... I think there's really only one way when it needs to occupy more than one line:

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread David House
On 27/07/06, Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there's really only one way when it needs to occupy more than one line: if c then t else f Confusingly, if c then t else f Also works, although no-one really knows why. -- -David House, [EMAIL

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Brian Hulley
David House wrote: On 27/07/06, Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there's really only one way when it needs to occupy more than one line: if c then t else f Confusingly, if c then t else f Also works, although no-one really knows why. Only if

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread David House
On 27/07/06, Brian Hulley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd be in favour of /if /case /let /\ etc instead of fi esac tel because it looks more systematic and follows the usual XML conventions for end tags. I'd suggest that floating point division should just be written `divide` - it's just a very

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-27 Thread Mike Gunter
Thanks for the answer. (And doubly thanks for giving the answer I hoped for!) I propose that ifThenElse and thenElseIf be added to the Prelude for Haskell'. While these names are a bit long, I think we want both functions and these names make the behaviors clear (to me, at least). Comments?

[Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-26 Thread Mike Gunter
I had hoped the History of Haskell paper would answer a question I've pondered for some time: why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax? The paper doesn't address this. What's the story? thanks, -m ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-26 Thread mvanier
As opposed to what? Mike Mike Gunter wrote: I had hoped the History of Haskell paper would answer a question I've pondered for some time: why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax? The paper doesn't address this. What's the story? thanks, -m

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-26 Thread Sebastian Sylvan
On 7/27/06, mvanier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As opposed to what? For example case-of, guards (in combination with let or where), or just a function: if :: Bool - a - a - a if True t _ = t if False _ e = e -- example usage myAbs x = if (x 0) (negate x) x /S -- Sebastian Sylvan

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-26 Thread Donn Cave
Quoth Sebastian Sylvan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | On 7/27/06, mvanier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | As opposed to what? | | For example case-of, guards (in combination with let or where), or | just a function: | | if :: Bool - a - a - a | if True t _ = t | if False _ e = e | | -- example usage | myAbs x =

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax?

2006-07-26 Thread Paul Hudak
Mike Gunter wrote: I had hoped the History of Haskell paper would answer a question I've pondered for some time: why does Haskell have the if-then-else syntax? The paper doesn't address this. What's the story? thanks, -m Thanks for asking about this -- it probably should be in the paper.