Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-03 Thread Fraser Wilson
You know, I read the Fudgets thesis, and threw together an experiment which used Glade for layout and Haskell for semantics [1]. As somebody else noted, this isn't really a clean division, because of things like editable flags in the layout. The darcs repository has a couple of demo applications,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread John A. De Goes
How do you define "layout" in a way that has a "direct an enormous effect on interaction semantics"??? Regards, John A. De Goes N-BRAIN, Inc. The Evolution of Collaboration http://www.n-brain.net|877-376-2724 x 101 On Feb 2, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Conal Elliott wrote: Hi John, I'm no

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Conal Elliott
Hi John, I'm not sure how to interpret your remarks about "has no effect" and "is best". I guess they're subjective opinions, but maybe I'm missing something objective in your intent. I can see, for instance, at least one way in which layout has a direct and enormous effect on interaction semant

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Peter Verswyvelen
Well, that is also the idea behind Microsoft's WPF/XAML: they provide a declarative approach to describe the widget tree (specifying what it is, not what is does), and a GUI toolkit (Expression Blend) for artists and designers so they can use a high level tool to build the GUI. You can even define

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Creighton Hogg
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Conal Elliott wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Creighton Hogg wrote: >> >> I think working on a purely functional widget toolkit would actually >> be a really cool project. Do you have any ideas, though, on what >> should be the underlying primitives? >

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Jonathan Cast
On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 13:28 -0800, Conal Elliott wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Creighton Hogg > wrote: > 2009/1/29 Conal Elliott : > > Hi Achim, > > > > I came to the same conclusion: I want to sweep aside these > OO, imperative > > toolk

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread John A. De Goes
The size, color, and layout of widgets has no effect on interaction semantics and is best pushed elsewhere, into a designer-friendly realm such as CSS. Regards, John A. De Goes N-BRAIN, Inc. The Evolution of Collaboration http://www.n-brain.net|877-376-2724 x 101 On Feb 2, 2009,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Conal Elliott
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Creighton Hogg wrote: > 2009/1/29 Conal Elliott : > > Hi Achim, > > > > I came to the same conclusion: I want to sweep aside these OO, imperative > > toolkits, and replace them with something "genuinely functional", which > for > > me means having a precise & simp

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Conal Elliott
Could CSS give us semantic clarity? - Conal On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:58 AM, John A. De Goes wrote: > > The actual presentation and layout of widgets would be better handled by a > DSL such as CSS (which is, in fact, declarative in nature), while event > logic would be best handled purely in Ha

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread John A. De Goes
The actual presentation and layout of widgets would be better handled by a DSL such as CSS (which is, in fact, declarative in nature), while event logic would be best handled purely in Haskell. Regards, John A. De Goes N-BRAIN, Inc. The Evolution of Collaboration http://www.n-brain.net

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Creighton Hogg
2009/1/29 Conal Elliott : > Hi Achim, > > I came to the same conclusion: I want to sweep aside these OO, imperative > toolkits, and replace them with something "genuinely functional", which for > me means having a precise & simple compositional (denotational) semantics. > Something meaningful, form

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-01-29 Thread Conal Elliott
Hi Achim, I came to the same conclusion: I want to sweep aside these OO, imperative toolkits, and replace them with something "genuinely functional", which for me means having a precise & simple compositional (denotational) semantics. Something meaningful, formally tractable, and powefully composi

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-01-27 Thread Peter Verswyvelen
> > So, if you don't mind, I'm going to stop trying to fit cubes into > round holes and gonna use reactive and fieldtrip[4] to do things. Yes exactly, these projects are an attempt to make reactive programming (and GUI programming is one of these) much more composable. However it is still unclea