Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why monad tutorials don't work

2007-08-14 Thread Dougal Stanton
On 14/08/07, Dan Weston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snips another metaphor for monadic programming] No offence to Dan, whose post I enjoyed. The concept of wrapping is as close a metaphor as we seem to get without disagreements. But this has brought me to a realisation, after Paul Erdos: The

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why monad tutorials don't work

2007-08-14 Thread Michael Vanier
snark As you know, an arrow tutorial is like a wrapper around a monad tutorial, sort of like a container around it that can do extra actions with sufficient lifting. The appropriate higher-order function to convert monad tutorials to arrow tutorials will be left as an exercise to the reader.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why monad tutorials don't work

2007-08-14 Thread Dan Piponi
On 8/14/07, Dan Weston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Conor McBride and Ross Paterson said it best in the introduction to their paper Applicative programming with effects [1]: As von Neumann said: Young man, in mathematics you don't understand things, you just get used to them. Getting used to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why monad tutorials don't work

2007-08-14 Thread Erik Jones
On 8/14/07, Michael Vanier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm becoming more and more convinced that metaphors for monads do more harm than good. From now on I'm going to describe monads as purely abstract entities that obey certain laws, and that _in certain instances_ can be viewed to be like

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why monad tutorials don't work

2007-08-14 Thread Bill Wood
On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 16:02 -0700, Dan Piponi wrote: . . . On 8/14/07, Michael Vanier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm reminded of a physics teacher who was having a similar problem explaining the concept of tensors, until he said that a tensor is something that transforms like a tensor