[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-27 Thread Achim Schneider
Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 16:34 schrieb Cristian Baboi: I'll have to trust you, because I cannot test it. let x=(1:x); y=(1:y) in x==y . I also cannot test this: let x=(1:x); y=1:1:y in x==y In these examples, x and y denote the same

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-27 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27 Dec 2007, at 10:44 AM, Achim Schneider wrote: Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 16:34 schrieb Cristian Baboi: I'll have to trust you, because I cannot test it. let x=(1:x); y=(1:y) in x==y . I

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-27 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: _|_ is the denotation of every Haskell expression whose denotation is _|_. Mu. Why take away _|_? Because, when zenning about instance (Eq a) = Eq [a] where [] == [] = True (x:xs) == (y:ys) = x == y xs == ys _xs== _ys=

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Interesting data structure

2007-12-27 Thread Achim Schneider
Tim Docker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm using a control structure that's a variation of a monad and I'm interested in whether - it's got a name - it deserves a name (!) - anything else similar is used elsewhere You might have reinvented arrows in some sense:

[Haskell-cafe] Re: what does @ mean?.....

2007-12-28 Thread Achim Schneider
ChrisK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zeroNothing Nothing = Nothing zeroNothing (Just n) = if n == 0 then Nothing else (Just n) versus zeroNothing Nothing = Nothing zeroNothing x@(Just n) = if n == 0 then Nothing else x versus zeroNothing Nothing = Nothing zeroNothing x = let

[Haskell-cafe] Re: what does @ mean?.....

2007-12-28 Thread Achim Schneider
Ben Franksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider wrote: ChrisK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zeroNothing Nothing = Nothing zeroNothing (Just n) = if n == 0 then Nothing else (Just n) versus zeroNothing Nothing = Nothing zeroNothing x@(Just n) = if n == 0 then Nothing else x

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-28 Thread Achim Schneider
Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2007 07:49 schrieben Sie: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:19:47 +0200, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 16:34 schrieb Cristian Baboi: I'll have to trust you, because I cannot test it.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Doing some things right

2007-12-28 Thread Achim Schneider
Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Sniffen wrote: On Dec 28, 2007 6:05 AM, Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [I actually heard a number of people tell me that learning LISP would change my life forever because LISP has something called macros. I tried to learn it, and

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Function Stores

2007-12-28 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you help me find it ? Watch out for those garbage collectors, they always carry the stuff away as soon as you turn your back on it. You can find them easily by spotting stop-and-go traffic on any street.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Doing some things right

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Palmer wrote: OO is orthogonal to functional. Erlang is pure functional, Lisp is a bastard child... 2. I'm curios as to how you can have a functional OO language. The two seem fundamentally incompatible: By writing an object that takes

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Sending bottom to his room

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It appears as if lambda calculus is defined by lambda calculus. Yes. id (lambda calculus) = lambda calculus. You might try to point back to yourself when being asked who you are to see the advantage of this technique. -- (c) this sig last receiving

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Sending bottom to his room

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:01:51 +0200, Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It appears as if lambda calculus is defined by lambda calculus. Yes. id (lambda calculus) = lambda calculus. You might try

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting... So you're claiming that humans have powers of deduction beyond what computers possess? ;-) They would be programming us if otherwise, wouldn't they? -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: only because it's pleasant for people to believe in their free will, creativeness, smartness and don't believe in computers' ones. Let's see... Hey, pipeline, there's an jnz eax! we can either jump to the address or continue, what do you think? I

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Achim, Saturday, December 29, 2007, 8:40:05 PM, you wrote: Interesting... So you're claiming that humans have powers of deduction beyond what computers possess? ;-) They would be programming us if otherwise, wouldn't they? oh, well.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Tim, Saturday, December 29, 2007, 9:42:48 PM, you wrote: The only thing that computers can do that humans can't is to work without getting bored. ok, please compute 2^2^30 before continuing discussion. it seems that you just use i'm too

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Achim, Saturday, December 29, 2007, 9:22:40 PM, you wrote: I think we should jump, eax is zero and I don't want to get redesigned. It's all about natural selection, it seems. Heretics get burned in both worlds. for me, natural

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Achim, Saturday, December 29, 2007, 10:16:39 PM, you wrote: The only thing that computers can do that humans can't is to work without getting bored. ok, please compute 2^2^30 before continuing discussion. it seems that you just use

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: computers don't make mistakes, don't sleep, don't have their own goals that differ from goals of their society. Of course not. It would be a different society if their goals would differ. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only thing that computers can do that humans can't is to work without getting bored. It's always interesting to compare computers and humans, especially computer scientist seem to do that :) Hm. More importantly, only humans try to write

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, pray, what problem does the nature wants to solve that it thinks in the way of all history until now? making the Superhero who will kill'em all. and it's already very close Damn, I do continue making the mistake assuming that you got all that

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Achim, Saturday, December 29, 2007, 11:47:50 PM, you wrote: It's always interesting to compare computers and humans, especially computer scientist seem to do that :) Hm. More importantly, only humans try to write a general Eq and Ord

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Achim Schneider
Daniel Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you please agree to disagree? I fear Bulat decided to a long time ago. I agree to shut up. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All rights reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Quanta. Was: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-30 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding this the universe is a turing machine: until a couple of years ago, I also was someone that believed that (A) the universe (and life) could be simulated by a computer, Yesss. Nice. A bit of Escher here: Imagine an instance of eval

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-30 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:00:05 +0200, Daniel Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Sonntag, 30. Dezember 2007 18:16 schrieb Cristian Baboi: A simple question: Can you write the value of x to a file where x = (1:x) ? Not in finite time and

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-30 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: module Module where a= let x=1:x in x main = do something to write a (a notation for a) to file The function must work if one change a to let x=2:x in x, let x=1:2:3:x and variations on the same theme. import GHC? you can even load it directly

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about a :: Something a = let x = x in x :t a would give (a - [a]), not Something, or am I mistaken? -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All rights reserved. Unauthorised

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It give Something. You're right, I'm thinking too lispy. The point is that it doesn't have to be passed an x to be infinite, and that a by itself is fully polymorphic. It seems like you're trying to solve the halting problem. Slurping any infinite data

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is infinite in let x = x in x ? ^ || |___/| \/ -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is infinite in let x = x in x ? ^ || |___/| \/ a = let x = x in x is actually only quite verbose

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:59:28 +0200, Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is infinite in let x = x in x

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it depends on what you think is nicer. For me it looks shorter than undefined and it don't rely on the library. Well, for me undefined doesn't throw undeterministic behaviour at me (throwing a stack overflow sooner or later or not, depending on

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Web server continued

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is more strange is that a = a + 1 and a = 1 + a are somehow distinct. The second give a stack overflow almost instanly, but the first don't. That's because what the runtime does looks in the second case like a = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + ... + a ... and

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Web server continued

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not specified though, the runtime could choose to let + force the two chunks the different way round. And that is probably also the reason why [1..] == [1..] is _|_. Is Something that can be, in any evaluation strategy, be bottom, is bottom

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Trying to fix space leak

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Jake McArthur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I disagree. It might be the case that the _contents_ of the data structure are lazy, in which case I would say the relevant constructor parameters should be made strict. As long as the structural parts are still lazy it should be okay. And there's

[Haskell-cafe] Re: How to convert number types.

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
L.Guo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What should I do then ? Use fromIntegral. In general, conversion functions are conventionally named fromXXX, and not toXXX, to emphasise functionality somewhat when using them. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Web server continued

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 31 Dec 2007, at 10:43 AM, Achim Schneider wrote: Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not specified though, the runtime could choose to let + force the two chunks the different way round. And that is probably also the reason

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Web server continued

2007-12-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Right click - Color Label - Red. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All rights reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring, renting, public performance and/or broadcasting of this

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Compiler backend question

2008-01-01 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another question regarding the backend: a cool feature of the Microsoft Visual C++ (MVC) compiler is its ability to perform LTCG (link-time-code-generation), performing whole program optimization. It something like this possible with Haskell / (or

[Haskell-cafe] The Worker/Wrapper Transformation

2008-01-03 Thread Achim Schneider
...is a paper about automatic specialisation of functions by unboxing arguments, one could say. I'm only on page 6, but already survived the first formalisms, which is bound to mean that the rest of the paper is likewise accessible, as hinted on at ltu. http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/wrapper.pdf

[Haskell-cafe] Re: The Worker/Wrapper Transformation

2008-01-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I'm trying to grok that [] = id ++ = . in the context of Hughes lists. I guess it would stop to slip away if I knew what : corresponds to. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information

[Haskell-cafe] Re: The Worker/Wrapper Transformation

2008-01-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Brent Yorgey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, (:) has type a - [a] - [a], so a function corresponding to (:) for Hughes lists should have type foo :: a - H a - H a [...] I think the key sentence from the paper is this: by representing a list xs as the function (xs ++) that appends this

[Haskell-cafe] Re: The Worker/Wrapper Transformation

2008-01-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brent Yorgey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, (:) has type a - [a] - [a], so a function corresponding to (:) for Hughes lists should have type foo :: a - H a - H a [...] I think the key sentence from the paper is this: by representing

[Haskell-cafe] Re: The Worker/Wrapper Transformation

2008-01-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (define (cons x y) (lambda (m) (m x y))) (define (car z) (z (lambda (p q) p))) (define (cdr z) (z (lambda (p q) q))) , which, just for completeness, can be of course also be done in Haskell: cons :: a - b - (a - b - c) - c cons x y m

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Difference lists and ShowS

2008-01-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Henning Thielemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I figure it's (constant vs. linear) vs. (linear vs. quadratic), for more involved examples. I can't see it. If I consider (x++y) but I do not evaluate any element of (x++y) or only the first element, then this will need constant time. If I

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Difference lists and ShowS

2008-01-03 Thread Achim Schneider
apfelmus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: O((x ++ y) ++ z) ~ O(length x + length y) + O(length x) + O(x) + O(y) + O(z) I would say that it's ~ O(length x) + O(length $ x ++ y) + O(2 * list mangling) -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Is there anyone out there who can translate C# generics into Haskell?

2008-01-06 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4 Jan 2008, at 2:00 AM, Nicholls, Mark wrote: You may be right...but learning is not an atomic thingwherever I start I will get strange things happening. The best place to start learning Haskell is with the simplest type features, not the

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Concurrency questions

2008-01-06 Thread Achim Schneider
Andrew Coppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. I have a situation where I have a thread generating some data and putting it into a mutable array, and another thread trying to read that data. Is there a way I can make the reader thread block if it tries to read a cell that hasn't been computed

[Haskell-cafe] Re: US Homeland Security program language security risks

2008-01-06 Thread Achim Schneider
Daniel Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just because I don't know: what bugs would be possible in a language having only the instruction return () (';' for imperative programmers)? /me waves meaningful with his hand. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers

[Haskell-cafe] Re: US Homeland Security program language security risks

2008-01-06 Thread Achim Schneider
Daniel Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Sonntag, 6. Januar 2008 15:18 schrieb Andrew Coppin: Daniel Fischer wrote: Just because I don't know: what bugs would be possible in a language having only the instruction return () Bug #1: You cannot write any nontrivial programs. ;-)

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Is there anyone out there who can translate C# generics into Haskell?

2008-01-06 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6 Jan 2008, at 2:13 AM, Achim Schneider wrote: Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4 Jan 2008, at 2:00 AM, Nicholls, Mark wrote: You may be right...but learning is not an atomic thingwherever I start I will get strange things

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Quanta. Was: Wikipedia on first-class object

2008-01-06 Thread Achim Schneider
ChrisK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how the brain works appears to be though electro- and bio- chemistry, which are best modeled/described right now by quantum mechanics. Erm... There is this story about some military (US afair) training a neural net to detect tanks in images, I can't find the

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Problem with own written monad

2008-01-07 Thread Achim Schneider
Derek Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 18:21 +, Paul Johnson wrote: Miguel Mitrofanov wrote: Yes. It's simply impossible. The Stack data type can't be turned into a monad. Why not? Surely this is just a variation on the theme of a state monad? I

[Haskell-cafe] Neural nets and the menu (was: something different)

2008-01-07 Thread Achim Schneider
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Albert Y. C. Lai writes: Achim Schneider wrote: There is this story about some military (US afair) training a neural net to detect tanks in images ... 50% accuracy. I have some similar stories to tell A. ... students assumed sin(x+y) = sin(x

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Concurrency questions

2008-01-07 Thread Achim Schneider
Ben Franksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spencer Janssen wrote: On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 11:30:53AM +, Andrew Coppin wrote: 1. Is there some way to assign a priority to Haskell threads? (The behaviour I'd like is that high priority threads always run first, and low priority threads

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Is there anyone out there who can translate C# generics into Haskell?

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jules: Achim Schneider wrote: things like data State = State { winSize :: IORef Size , t :: IORef Int , fps :: IORef Float , showFPS :: IORef Bool , showHelp :: IORef Bool , grabMouse

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Is there anyone out there who can translate C# generics into Haskell?

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Stefan O'Rear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 09:10:59PM +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: That said, I think it's not very Haskell-like to do something elegantly in 1000 lines when you can do it in 100 lines and still have it look nicer than C. I would use IORef State

[Haskell-cafe] Type System (Was: Currying and Partial Evaluation)

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prelude let y f = f $ y f Prelude :t y y :: (b - b) - b Just out of curiosity: Where the heck does 'a' hide? -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All rights reserved. Unauthorised

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Currying and Partial Evaluation

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Fernando Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is currying in Haskell the same thing as Partial Evaluation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_evaluation)? Am I getting partial evaluation for free just by using Haskell? No, currying is this: Prelude let f x y = 1 + x * ( y - 3 )

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Type System (Was: Currying and Partial Evaluation)

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Brad Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:59:22 -0500, Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prelude let y f = f $ y f Prelude :t y y :: (b - b) - b Just out of curiosity: Where the heck does 'a' hide? Beg pardon

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Type System (Was: Currying and Partial Evaluation)

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Alfonso Acosta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 9, 2008 1:07 AM, Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beg pardon? Are you referring to the type of y being described with 'b' instead of 'a'? Yes. (a - a) - a and (b - b) - b are equivalent. For some reason

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Currying and Partial Evaluation

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Derek Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 00:51 +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: Fernando Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is currying in Haskell the same thing as Partial Evaluation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_evaluation)? Am I getting

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Currying and Partial Evaluation

2008-01-08 Thread Achim Schneider
Derek Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 03:37 +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: Derek Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 00:51 +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: Fernando Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is currying

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Currying and Partial Evaluation

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
Derek Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we stop using confusing, misleading or outright wrong definitions and analogies? No, we can't, ever, that's plain impossible. And will never stop to use enlightening, inspiring or vastly approximate or aggregate definitions and analogies, and I won't

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
Yu-Teh Shen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got question about why haskell insist to be a purely FL. I mean is there any feature which is only support by pure? I mean maybe the program is much easier to prove? Or maybe we can cache some value for laziness. Could anyone give me some more

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Silly question: accessing a slot in a data type

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
Fernando Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm writing a very simple address book. I defined the follwoing types for Contact and AddressBook: type Name= String type PhoneNumber= Integer data Contact = Contact {name :: Name, phone:: PhoneNumber} deriving Show -- The

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Silly question: accessing a slot in a data type

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
Fernando Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm writing a very simple address book. I defined the follwoing types for Contact and AddressBook: type Name= String type PhoneNumber= Integer data Contact = Contact {name :: Name, phone:: PhoneNumber} deriving Show -- The

[Haskell-cafe] Re: GHC 6.8.2 as a library on Windows and GHCi

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
Attila Babo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Using ghci your code is fine under Linux, but fails on Windows, even with a daily snapshot from today. It's OK when compiling with ghc on both platforms. I think it is time for peter to become acquainted with the readline package and write a custom repl.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANN: A triple of new packages for talking tothe outside world

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 9, 2008 10:10 AM, Dominic Steinitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Duncan Coutts duncan.coutts at worc.ox.ac.uk writes: The difficulty is in deciding what the api should be. Does it give you a real bitstream or only a byte aligned one? If I ask

[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANN: A triple of new packages for talking tothe outside world

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ something that every C programmer dreams of ] I'm not going to answer, I'd be just vapour-waring around. But, yes, any-alignment any-granularity reads can be done in O(1), with 1 ranging from case to case from one instruction to a few shifts and 's, plus

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Displaying # of reductions after eachcomputation in ghci?

2008-01-09 Thread Achim Schneider
Lennart Augustsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is a reduction anyway? () - o - . - -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All rights reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring, renting, public performance and/or

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tim Sweeney (the gamer)

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Nick Rolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://morpheus.cs.ucdavis.edu/papers/sweeny.pdf He refers to Haskell and its strengths (and some of its weaknesses) quite a bit. For those who don't know him, Tim Sweeney is the main programmer behind Epic Games's popular Unreal Engine. When he talks,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tim Sweeney (the gamer)

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Sebastian Sylvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those who don't know him, Tim Sweeney is the main programmer behind Epic Games's popular Unreal Engine. When he talks, many game developers will listen. We will dream, most likely. Perhaps more importantly, anything he does will

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tim Sweeney (the gamer)

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Sebastian Sylvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You make less bugs with that language? Fucking learn to write C++! Excuse me? A probable exclamation of a pointy-haired boss, that is. What I wanted to say is that if you tell such a guy that you'll make less bugs in language X, he would assume

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tim Sweeney (the gamer)

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The surest thing to make people switch is to make them not aware of it, i.e. make things look exactly like in C, with incremental updates of the same variable and everything, while still retaining a purely functional semantic under the hood. I guess

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Niko Korhonen writes: ... Although it could be argued that laziness is the cause of some very obscure bugs... g Niko Example, PLEASE. [1..] == [1..] , for assumed operational semantics of ones own axiomatic semantics. Bugs are only a misunderstanding

[Haskell-cafe] Re: viewing HS files in Firefox

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Stefan Monnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My problem is when viewing plain darcs repositories (like mine on darcs.johantibell.com which I recently fixed with the above mime type hack.) Please complain to your browser('s authors): most browsers only provide *one* way to view a given

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Daniel Yokomizo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 10, 2008 3:36 PM, Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Niko Korhonen writes: ... Although it could be argued that laziness is the cause of some very obscure bugs... g Niko Example, PLEASE

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider answers my question to somebody else (Niko Korhonen): Although it could be argued that laziness is the cause of some very obscure bugs... g Niko Example, PLEASE. [1..] == [1..] Whatever you may say more, this is neither

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tim Sweeney (the gamer)

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Sebastian Sylvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Concurrency does seem pretty disruptive. Yes, the thought of using par on a dual quad-core makes me salivate. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All rights reserved. Unauthorised

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tim Sweeney (the gamer)

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In return, we can improve the parallelism support further. Now don't make me think of using par on a beowolf cluster of ps3's. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for past copyright information. All rights reserved.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider: jerzy.karczmarczuk asks what's wrong with: [1..] == [1..] Whatever you may say more, this is neither obscure nor a bug. I still wait for a relevant example. But I don't insist too much... It's not an example of a bug

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
John Meacham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 11:17:18AM +0200, Yitzchak Gale wrote: The special case of 1/0 is less clear, though. One might decide that it should be an error rather than NaN, as some languages have. It is neither, 1/0 = Infinity -1/0 = -Infinity

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tim Sweeney (the gamer)

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Ketil Malde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sebastian Sylvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe I'm just lucky, but if we are still talking about the games industry I don't think this fits my experience of bosses. Games compete very much on performance, and we basically rewrite almost all of our

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 09:24:34PM +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: John Meacham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 11:17:18AM +0200, Yitzchak Gale wrote: The special case of 1/0 is less clear, though. One might decide that it should

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 09:41:53PM +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 09:24:34PM +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: John Meacham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1/0 = Infinity -1/0 = -Infinity

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Difference lists and ShowS

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Henning Thielemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, apfelmus wrote: So, difference lists are no eierlegende wollmilchsau either. LEO's forum suggests 'swiss army knife' as translation. :-) But you really need one with 5 differently-sized blades plus three spezialized

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Difference lists and ShowS

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day all. Quoting Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED]: But you really need one with 5 differently-sized blades plus three spezialized carving blades, an USB stick, microscope, 13 kinds of torx, imbus etc drivers each, a tv set (analogue/digital

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Tillmann Rendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider wrote: [1..] == [1..] [some discussion about the nontermination of this expression] The essence of laziness is to do the least work necessary to cause the desired effect, which is to see that the set of natural numbers

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10 Jan 2008, at 7:55 AM, Achim Schneider wrote: Daniel Yokomizo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 10, 2008 3:36 PM, Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Niko Korhonen writes: ... Although it could be argued

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Ketil Malde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You need to use the / operator, if you want to do floating-point division. Yes, exactly, integers don't have +-0 and +-infinity... only (obviously) a kind of nan. No, failure (exception, bottom

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-11 Thread Achim Schneider
David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prelude let x=1e-300/1e300 Prelude x 0.0 Prelude x/x NaN The true answer here is that x/x == 1.0 (not 0 or +Infinity), but there's no way for the computer to know this, so it's NaN. Wl.. math philosophy, Ok. You can't divide

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristian Baboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:11:52 +0200, Lennart Augustsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some people seem to think that == is an equality predicate. This is a big source of confusion for them; until they realize that == is just another function returning

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11 Jan 2008, at 5:13 AM, Achim Schneider wrote: Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kind of mathematics? I don't know of any mathematics where algebraic simplifications are employed without proof of the underlying equations (in some

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11 Jan 2008, at 10:12 AM, Achim Schneider wrote: David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prelude let x=1e-300/1e300 Prelude x 0.0 Prelude x/x NaN The true answer here is that x/x == 1.0 (not 0 or +Infinity), but there's no way

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Kalman Noel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider wrote: whereas lim( 0 ) * lim( inf ) is anything you want Indeed I suppose that »lim inf«, which is a notation I'm not familiar with, is not actually defined to mean anything? It's an ad-hoc expression of as the slices approach zero

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kalman Noel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider wrote: whereas lim( 0 ) * lim( inf ) is anything you want Indeed I suppose that »lim inf«, which is a notation I'm not familiar with, is not actually defined to mean anything? It's

[Haskell-cafe] Re: 0/0 1 == False

2008-01-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Kalman Noel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Achim Schneider wrote: Actually, lim( 0 ) * lim( inf ) isn't anything but equals one, and the anything is defined to one (or, rather, is _one_ anything) to be able to use the abstraction. It's a bit like the difference between eight pens and a box

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Solving a geometry problem with Haskell

2008-01-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Rafael Almeida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: perfectSquares :: [Integer] perfectSquares = zipWith (*) [1..] [1..] isPerfectSquare :: Integer - Bool isPerfectSquare x = (head $ dropWhile (x) perfectSquares) == x what about module Main where isPerfectSquare :: Integer - Bool isPerfectSquare n =

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Solving a geometry problem with Haskell

2008-01-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rafael Almeida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: perfectSquares :: [Integer] perfectSquares = zipWith (*) [1..] [1..] isPerfectSquare :: Integer - Bool isPerfectSquare x = (head $ dropWhile (x) perfectSquares) == x what about module Main where

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