[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] unsafePerformIO and optimizations

2005-08-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 8. August 2005 11:33 schrieb Simon Marlow: [...] This way leads to madness - GHC's optimisations are simply not designed to provide any kind of guarantee about maintaining sharing properties. The guidelines we've given for unsafePerformIO are enough to cover simple uses like

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Functional vs Imperative

2005-09-13 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2005 15:45 schrieb Dhaemon: [...] Also, just for kicks, may I had this: I read the code of some haskell-made programs and was astonished. Yes! It was clean and all, but there were dos everywhere... Why use a function language if you use it as an imperative

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell versus Lisp

2005-09-16 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 16. September 2005 15:06 schrieb Mark Carter: Plus you can use macros to extend the language. I don't know really about LISP macros but aren't they a bit like Template Haskell? Since Haskell (even without Template Haskell) is a small but flexible language you can construct

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell versus Lisp

2005-09-16 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 16. September 2005 15:29 schrieb Glynn Clements: David Roundy wrote: Bearing this in mind, and hoping you can see where I'm coming from, I think my question is: shouldn't you guys be using Lisp? Lisp is impure, weakly typed and has way too many parentheses. Why would we

Re: [Haskell-cafe] And another basic typing question -- empty list

2005-09-16 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 16. September 2005 16:02 schrieb Adam Wyner: [...] Suppose I have two expressions: emptyListA = null emptyListB = [] emptyListA is apparently a function from empty lists to Bool. emptyListA is a function from *arbitrary* lists to Bool. [...] The problem is that there is

Re: [Haskell] Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell versus Lisp

2005-09-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 16. September 2005 16:46 schrieben Sie: . . . In Haskell, code is data too because code in the sense of imperative actions is described by IO values. You cannot analyse them. But you can use your do expressions etc. to construct action descriptions with a more general

Re: [Haskell] Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell versus Lisp

2005-09-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 16. September 2005 18:40 schrieben Sie: Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Bearing this in mind, and hoping you can see where I'm coming from, I think my question is: shouldn't you guys be using Lisp? Lisp is impure, weakly typed and has way too many parentheses. Why would

Re: [Haskell-cafe] newbe question

2005-09-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 27. September 2005 11:34 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi i can not load program test1 into hugs, but test2 works. Am i missing some special syntax? greetings, Philip -- test1 -- foo :: Maybe Int - Int foo Nothing =-1 foo (Just a)= a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] newbe question

2005-09-28 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 27. September 2005 21:54 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 27 Sep, Glynn Clements wrote: It isn't defined in the prelude or any of the standard libraries. The point is that the Haskell tokeniser treats any consecutive sequence of the symbols !#$%*+./=[EMAIL PROTECTED]|-~ as a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Converting [Word8] to String

2005-10-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 2. Oktober 2005 12:52 schrieb Joel Reymont: Folks, How do I convert a list of bytes to a string? Cale has suggested a neat way of parsing binary packets in this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg09413.html and I'm trying to create a packet reader

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Short Cut / Rewrite Rules Problem in GHC

2005-10-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 4. Oktober 2005 04:15 schrieb Chris: [...] When I don't have them enabled it gives this error: chris$ ghc --make Main.hs Chasing modules from: Main.hs Compiling Main ( Main.hs, Main.o ) Main.hs:8:18: parse error on input `.' I suppose, this is because the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] New to Monads

2005-10-07 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 7. Oktober 2005 06:32 schrieb Cale Gibbard: That | m - s reads where m determines s, and means that there can be at most one s (here, the state type) for a given m (the monad type). This is used in type inference and checking to ensure that the type of state being carried around by

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Interest in helping w/ Haskell standard

2005-10-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 13. Oktober 2005 13:39 schrieb Stephane Bortzmeyer: [...] Regexps and XML are, IMHO, also must haves. By the way, it should be possible to handle regular expressions in an Haskell-like way. I always couldn't understand why one has to write regular expressions as strings which

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Interest in helping w/ Haskell standard

2005-10-15 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 16:26 schrieben Sie: On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 04:20:24PM +0200, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote a message of 23 lines which said: alpha = ('A' `to` 'Z') ||| ('a' `to` 'z') If you intend to seriously specify a new language for regexps, please

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Interest in helping w/ Haskell standard

2005-10-15 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 16:25 schrieben Sie: On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 04:20:24PM +0200, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I always couldn't understand why one has to write regular expressions as strings Because the language used inside these strings is standard, multi

Re: [Haskell-cafe] newtype is superfluous

2005-10-15 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 15. Oktober 2005 08:31 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: Hello Haskell, number of type definition statements in Haskell (data, type, newtype) is a bit too large. at least, newtype definition seems to be superfluous - it can be replaced by the same `data` definition: newtype A = A Int

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Template Haskell -- Bug?

2005-10-20 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 20. Oktober 2005 15:02 schrieb Gracjan Polak: Hi, Could somebody try to compile these two files *TWICE*? Hello Gracjan, I did so, using GHC 6.4.1 on Debian GNU/Linux, installed from the binary archive for generic Linux. Upon the first run, I got the same messages, you got.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Making Haskell more open

2005-11-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 13. November 2005 22:22 schrieb Gour: [...] But don't forget, as it was already stated, get the whole working-chain ready for authoring in Docbook is not at all ready and for one not proficient in emacs with SGML mode it is very difficult to write texts with so many tags. You

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Making Haskell more open

2005-11-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 13. November 2005 22:05 schrieb Gour: [...] The question is if HTML is sufficient. In addition, HTML is at some points not well thought-out. True, but considering the present situation, it is all what is required. I doubt this. How, for example, do you implement code

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Making Haskell more open

2005-11-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 14. November 2005 10:49 schrieb Ketil Malde: [...] I think it would be ideal to provide the documentation on the web as now, but linking to wikified talk pages. Something like Wikipedia, (since MediaWiki was brought up) but perhaps with restricted write access to the feature

Re: [Haskell-cafe] doc/html - wiki - xml

2005-11-15 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 15. November 2005 12:44 schrieb Scott Weeks: Frankly, the best way to go about writing your doc would be to do it in LaTeX/literate haskell. That way you could compile it to html/pdf/whatever. Oh no! Converting LaTeX to HTML is terrible, in my opinion. One reason for this is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] doc/html - wiki - xml

2005-11-16 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 10:10 schrieben Sie: [...] The ideal is to have a simple, rigid, semantic markup in the source document. While I dislike XML at least as much as the next guy, it is probably the best choice for this. Ideally, the DTD should be a lot simpler than DocBook,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] How to use a wiki to annotate GHC Docs? was Re: [Haskell] Re: Making Haskell more open

2005-11-16 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 12:33 schrieb Scott Weeks: The public comment/wiki spam problem is easily solved. Use JavaScript to generate a value and put it in a hidden form field. Check for that value server side, if it's there then allow the post otherwise disallow. Most if not all bots

Re: [Haskell-cafe] records proposals list

2005-11-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 19. November 2005 14:57 schrieb David Roundy: [...] 2. Multi-constructor getters, ideally as a function: An accessor ought to be able to access an identically-named field from multiple constructors of a given data type: data FooBar = Foo { name :: String } | Bar { name ::

Re: [Haskell-cafe] records proposals list

2005-11-20 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 19. November 2005 17:35 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: [...] 7. OOP-like fields inheritance: data Coord = { x,y :: Double } data Point : Coord = { c :: Color } of course this is just another sort of syntax sugar once we start using classes to define getter/setter functions I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] records proposals list

2005-11-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 21. November 2005 08:31 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: Hello Wolfgang, Sunday, November 20, 2005, 6:21:05 PM, you wrote: data Coord = { x,y :: Double } data Point : Coord = { c :: Color } A point is not a special coordinate pair. Instead it has a coordinate paar as one of its

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Records (was Re: [Haskell] Improvements to GHC)

2005-11-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 20. November 2005 12:28 schrieb Jesper Louis Andersen: [...] The best argument I can come up with when advocating lines of 80 chars for most programming code is subtle, but important: Code is easier to read for me when it is printed on good old paper. a2ps(1) is magnificient,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] records proposals list

2005-11-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 21. November 2005 14:27 schrieb David Roundy: On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 04:21:05PM +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Am Samstag, 19. November 2005 17:35 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: 7. OOP-like fields inheritance: data Coord = { x,y :: Double } data Point : Coord = { c :: Color

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Monad strictness

2005-11-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 21. November 2005 16:09 schrieb Roberto Zunino: Yitzchak Gale wrote: In the following, why does testA work and testB diverge? Where is the strictness coming from? My guess: from strict pattern matching in (=). This is a problem I came across some months ago. State uses lazy

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Records (was Re: [Haskell] Improvements to GHC)

2005-11-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 21. November 2005 20:51 schrieb Henning Thielemann: On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: [...] Hmm, printing code on paper isn't good for the environment. But is quite the same argument for e-paper. :-) I already thought about this. But if your computer is turned

Re: [Haskell-cafe] records proposals list

2005-11-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 22. November 2005 07:33 schrieb David Menendez: Keean Schupke writes: Haskell already has static records (in H98) Dynamic records are addressed by the HList library, which uses extensions already present in GHC and Hugs (namely Multi-parameter type-classes and

Re: [Haskell-cafe] records proposals list

2005-11-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 21. November 2005 20:34 schrieb Max Eronin: On 11/21/05, David Roundy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: class Coord a where get_x :: a - Double get_y :: a - Double set_x :: Double - a - a set_y :: Double - a - a I'd say this is a typical OO solution to the problem that

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Existential quantification of environments.

2005-11-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 22. November 2005 11:39 schrieb Keean Schupke: [...] This seems to suggest: Add a == exists (add :: a - a - a) Doesn't exists normally quantify over types and not over values? [...] Best wishes, Wolfgang ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Existential quantification of environments.

2005-11-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 22. November 2005 17:19 schrieben Sie: Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: This seems to suggest: Add a == exists (add :: a - a - a) Doesn't exists normally quantify over types and not over values? It is quantifying over types, it is saying there exists a type a - a - a that has

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-23 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 23. November 2005 10:03 schrieb Fan Wu: [...] I'm puzzled over this line: ~(a,s') - lift (mplus m1' m2') Why is this line in Monad.State.StateT? Recently, we discussed that StateT does *not* use a lazy pattern here but that it should be changed to using one. So where did

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-23 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 23. November 2005 19:02 schrieb Fan Wu: HI Wolfgang, The code is from GHC source ghc-6.4.1/libraries/monads/Monad/StateT.hs, am I looking at the wrong place? I found the thread discussing Monad strictness, where is your StateT defined? Hello Fan, the GHC source is just where

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 23. November 2005 10:03 schrieb Fan Wu: Hi Haskell gurus, I'm very puzzled on some code I saw in GHC Monad.StateT (which is about state monad transformers) source and hope you can kindly give me some insight into this. newtype StateT s m a = S (s - m (a,s)) instance

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 23. November 2005 20:42 schrieb Wolfgang Jeltsch: Am Mittwoch, 23. November 2005 19:02 schrieb Fan Wu: [...] But it is still not clear to me why lazy pattern is used here. Any ideas? Let's discuss this for State instead of StateT because this makes the discussion easier

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 24. November 2005 19:24 schrieb Fan Wu: Hi Wolfgang, I don't know the history so maybe this is a new implementation of State transformer. The Peek and poke functions are defined below (copied from StateT.hs): instance Monad m = StateM (StateT s m) s where peek

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 24. November 2005 01:49 schrieb Fan Wu: Hi Wolfgang, Thanks for your response and examples! It helps a lot. From your example I can see Lazy patterns are useful in contexts where infinite data structures are being defined recursively (quote section 4.4 of Gentle Introduction

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 24. November 2005 02:08 schrieb David Menendez: Wolfgang Jeltsch writes: If we use an implementation of State *without lazy patterns*, it becomes something like this: \s - case next s of (x,s') - case everyting s' of (xs,s'') - ((x : xs),s

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 24. November 2005 21:19 schrieben Sie: [...] Here I want to correct a statement I made previously about: mplus m1 m2 = do ... ~(a,s') - lift (mplus m1' m2') In one of my emails to the thread I mentioned m1/m2 and m1'/m2' could be different

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 24. November 2005 21:37 schrieb Fan Wu: [...] This is a good example! But now I got the impression that pattern match failure could happen in many places, so unless you want it to fail loudly, you shall always use lazy pattern? Often you need pattern matching for

Re: [Haskell-cafe] questions on lazy pattern, StateT monad

2005-11-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 24. November 2005 21:52 schrieb Fan Wu: They cannot belong to the same monad. If s is the state type and m1' and m2' belong to the monad m then m1 and m2 belong to the monad StateT s m. I know it looks insane, I'm just trying to make a recursive case of it: technically it's

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Monads in Java, Joy, OCaml, Perl, Prolog, Python, Ruby, and Scheme was Re: Other languages using monads?

2005-11-26 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 26. November 2005 03:56 schrieb Geoffrey Alan Washburn: [lots of code] It's interesting to note how verbose Java is in comparison to Haskell, at least, concerning this monad stuff. Best wishes, Wolfgang ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Lazier I/O?

2005-11-28 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 28. November 2005 13:27 schrieb Dimitry Golubovsky: [...] What is desired is to have the IO actions perform as their results are needed. I am assuming some knowledge that those actions have only limited scope of side effects (e. g. order of outputs within a window is significant,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Learning Haskell

2005-12-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 6. Dezember 2005 14:43 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: [...] so, in my feel, Haskell is better in areas where there is no standard quick-and-dirty solutions and all languages are in equal conditions, but it can't compete with Visual Basic in user interfaces, Erlang in distributed

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can't Haskell catch up with Clean's uniqueness typing?

2005-12-07 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 7. Dezember 2005 14:21 schrieb Jan-Willem Maessen: [...] The principle obstacles are the same as for any reference counting scheme: It imposes more run-time overhead than GC does, unless the data structures involved are large. Why? I think the point with uniqueness

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Learning Haskell

2005-12-07 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 6. Dezember 2005 20:58 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: [...] i already sayed about lacking of OOP features. This is the old discussion again. Do we need OOP features? Or do we want to avoid OOP features? I would like to avoid them. Maybe I have not enough experience with situations

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can't Haskell catch up with Clean's uniqueness typing?

2005-12-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 8. Dezember 2005 04:00 schrieb Jan-Willem Maessen: On Dec 7, 2005, at 9:58 AM, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Am Mittwoch, 7. Dezember 2005 14:21 schrieb Jan-Willem Maessen: [...] The principle obstacles are the same as for any reference counting scheme: It imposes more run

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can't Haskell catch up with Clean's uniqueness typing?

2005-12-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 8. Dezember 2005 13:08 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] A uniqueness checker can be rather robust, as is demonstrated by the Clean one, so all we'd have to worry about is how to find a good set of supposedly unique node candidates to suggest to the checker. (It certainly would

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can't Haskell catch up with Clean's uniqueness typing?

2005-12-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 8. Dezember 2005 18:38 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] p.p.s.: I've sent this mail a second time because the first one got lost somehow - hopefully, it doesn't show up again. Concerning me, your first mail wasn't lost. I got this mail two times. Best wishes, Wolfgang

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] fptools mirror in darcs ready for testing

2005-12-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 8. Dezember 2005 16:56 schrieb John Goerzen: [...] I have never worked much with these web front-ends. My understanding is that Trac is probably not the most efficient front-end to darcs, as it tries to put things in a more svn-like model. I wonder if one of the other

Re: [Haskell-cafe] First steps in Haskell

2005-12-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 18. Dezember 2005 17:25 schrieb Daniel Carrera: [...] This is a real problem for Haskell. I expect that a lot of people try Haskell and give up because they can't even write the simplest function. Hello Daniel, honestly, I have to say that during my years with Haskell, this seems

Re: [Haskell-cafe] First steps in Haskell

2005-12-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 18. Dezember 2005 17:42 schrieb Daniel Carrera: Lemmih wrote: GHC is a compiler. If you want to compile to a binary then you must define a function called 'main'. Otherwise just load the file in ghci (`ghci fac.hs`). I would expect GHC to be able to compile a program with a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] First steps in Haskell

2005-12-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 18. Dezember 2005 18:04 schrieb Daniel Carrera: Joel Koerwer wrote: Then after you've played with you creation a bit, check out http://haskell.org/learning.html http://haskell.org/learning.html Thank you. I did find that page, and it was very easy to find. There's a link on the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] First steps in Haskell

2005-12-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 18. Dezember 2005 18:02 schrieb Daniel Carrera: Chris Kuklewicz wrote: Almost everything is explained under http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.4.1/html/users_guide/ghci.html Ok. How would a visitor to the Haskell site find this document? The point is that the visitor should

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Int vs Integer

2005-12-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 19. Dezember 2005 01:10 schrieb Jared Updike: Int is for bounded values -2**32 to 2**32 (I think... maybe 2**-31 and 2**31 or less if it's boxed?) based on the underlying machine representation. Not really true. As far as I remember, the Haskell Report just says that Int covers at

Re: [Haskell-cafe] First steps in Haskell

2005-12-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 19. Dezember 2005 12:13 schrieb Daniel Carrera: [...] I guess that Haskell is unique among interpreted languages Haskell is not an interpreted language. There are Haskell interpreters, there are Haskell compilers. in that there are two compilers and they work different. The

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Tutorial uploaded

2005-12-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 20. Dezember 2005 20:07 schrieb Sebastian Sylvan: [...] It's sometimes beneficial to lie a bit when starting out. Perhaps say something like this is a simplified view of things, for all the gory details see chapter 19. Monadic IO is pretty darn cool, sadly that means that many

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Tutorial uploaded

2005-12-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2005 11:48 schrieb Robin Green: [...] If people want Haskell to be treated as a practical language, not just something for doing academic teaching and research with, it should be taught as a practical language - which means that things like IO and space/time usage

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Functions with side-effects?

2005-12-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2005 13:15 schrieb Creighton Hogg: [...] Monads, I believe, can be just thought of as containers for state. I would say that you are talking especially about the I/O monad here. A monad as such is a rather general concept like a group is in algebra. The important

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Tutorial uploaded

2005-12-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2005 16:30 schrieb Daniel Carrera: [...] Would it be fair to say that do-blocks are imperative blocks in an otherwise functional program? Not really. do expressions are (normally) equivalent to expressions containing applications of (=) and/or (). If the monad you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Functions with side-effects?

2005-12-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2005 16:28 schrieb David Barton: Wolfgang Jeltsch writes: - Original Message - Am Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2005 13:15 schrieb Creighton Hogg: [...] Monads, I believe, can be just thought of as containers for state. I would say that you are talking

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Functions with side-effects?

2005-12-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2005 19:02 schrieben Sie: [...] You (or, rather the processor) don't execute instructions to write Hello in same way as, say, adding 2 and 2. Exactly! Rather, you add writing this string to a to do list and wait for a driver to respond to an interrupt, pick up the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] How to print a string (lazily)

2006-01-03 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 3. Januar 2006 19:15 schrieb Daniel Carrera: Neil Mitchell wrote: All Haskell functions are lazy, hence there is no need to write a lazy version of your print_list function. I think the function you probably want is: putStr (unlines xs) Hhmm... that does work, and I'm a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Number 1, at least for now

2006-02-02 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2006 08:22 schrieb Donald Bruce Stewart: Haskell is now ranked number 1 on the Great Language Shootout! http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=alllang=all Hooray :) -- Don It seems to be number 2 at the moment. Best wishes, Wolfgang

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Number 1, at least for now

2006-02-02 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 2. Februar 2006 04:26 schrieb Donald Bruce Stewart: [...] A good packed string regex library would also be useful. But only one that gives us regular expressions which are parsed at compile time instead of runtime. [...] Best wishes, Wolfgang

[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] page renaming on the Haskell Wiki

2006-02-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2006 10:57 schrieb Graham Klyne: [...] Hello Graham, thank you for your answer. I have been using the W3C web site now for many years, and the inconsistencies you mention have never been a problem for me -- indeed, I hadn't even noticed them until you mentioned

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] page renaming on the Haskell Wiki

2006-02-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2006 13:00 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] for example, i think that all libraries should be under Library or Libraries root and so on. we started with filling up the pages, now we had enough contents to see what the structure will serve better Be careful. A title

Re: [Haskell-cafe] First Question

2006-03-20 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 19. März 2006 17:45 schrieb Neil Rutland: P class=RTE align=leftCheers everyone - if i have blatantly missused this mailing list just email me some abuse./P I'd just ask you to send your list mails in plain text or at least plain text plus HTML, not in HTML only. Best wishes,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] overloaded list literals?

2010-09-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, den 06.09.2010, 11:47 +0100 schrieb Neil Brown: I would have thought you have two obvious choices for the type-class (things like folding are irrelevant to overloading list literals): class IsList f where fromList :: [a] - f a or: class IsList f where cons :: a - f a

Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] overloaded list literals?

2010-09-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, den 06.09.2010, 19:38 +0400 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: btw, i also had proposal to automatically convert typeclasses used in type declarations into constraints, so that: putStr :: StringLike - IO () treated as putStr :: StringLike s = s - IO () This blurs the distinction between

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell, arrows and signal processing

2010-09-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, den 08.09.2010, 11:47 -0300 schrieb Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto: The input and output are infinite streams. I have a few questions: 1) Is it possible to change it to use arrows? How would it look like? 2) How would one implement an continuous time version? Have you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] record update

2010-09-13 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, den 11.09.2010, 11:21 -0600 schrieb Jonathan Geddes: I know that record updates is a topic that has become a bit of a dead horse, but here I go anyway: I find that most of the record updates I read and write take the form someUpdate :: MyRecord - MyRecord someUpdate myRecord =

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Coding conventions for Haskell?

2010-10-01 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, den 26.09.2010, 17:25 +0100 schrieb Maciej Piechotka: I use it in following way; 1. For short sharing name (rarely) let a = b ++ c in (a, a) 2. Default let a :: [Int] a = b ++ c f :: Int - String f 0 = f x = show x in map

Re: [Haskell-cafe] record update

2010-10-01 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, den 14.09.2010, 13:31 -0600 schrieb Jonathan Geddes: Wow, I had no idea there were so many record packages! The trouble is that only one of them (i.e., mine) is categorized under “Records” on Hackage. Best wishes, Wolfgang ___

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Improving HList programming/debugging (longish)

2011-01-12 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, den 11.01.2011, 20:05 -0500 schrieb jeff p: This message shows how to slightly reformulate HLists (and other type-level things) to get better type-checking and more informative error messages. The technique is interesting in that it uses GADTs and functional dependencies and seems

Re: [Haskell-cafe] H98, OOHaskell - getting started with objects in Haskell

2011-01-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, den 13.01.2011, 15:23 -0800 schrieb gutti: I'm especially interestes in engineering calculation tasks where cellular automata could be used. In that case all u have to do is to give the class the right properties and that let it grow. Such a localised intelligence approach

Re: [Haskell-cafe] H98, OOHaskell - getting started with objects in Haskell

2011-01-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, den 16.01.2011, 14:48 -0800 schrieb gutti: Looking at life u probably could save time, if u only would evaluate code on cells, where the neighbors have changed status. So rather than triggering them all centrally and each checks its neighbours, we could use the concept: - let

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: Elerea, another FRP library

2009-04-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2009 10:06 schrieb Patai Gergely: unsafePerformIO is apparently never inlined, i.e. each instance is executed once, so sharing works as desired But expressions that use unsafePerformIO might get inlined. CSE is no problem either, it even helps if it's performed (and

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: Elerea, another FRP library

2009-04-22 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 21. April 2009 17:18 schrieb Patai Gergely: What about evaluation time? If I remember correctly, the values of signals depend on the time when the signal expressions are evaluated. So evaluating them multiple times might lead to different behavior. Is this correct? It is.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: Elerea, another FRP library

2009-04-23 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 22. April 2009 16:00 schrieb Patai Gergely: This also means that if you want to restart a signal without external dependencies using a latcher, you have to inject some bogus dependency to prevent memoisation. If the new signal depends on some others, latching should behave

Re: [Haskell-cafe] When is it OK to create a new mailing list?

2009-05-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 2. Mai 2009 14:11 schrieb Mads Lindstrøm: Hi I wanted a mailing list for my project WxGeneric and I am wondering when it is OK to do so? How big must the potential audience be? Is there any kind of etiquette or guidelines? Here http://haskell.org/mailman/admin it says that I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Research in functional programming

2009-05-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 4. Mai 2009 11:32 schrieb Malcolm Wallace: TFP - Trends in Functional Programming Deadline on sunday. Best wishes, Wolfgang ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Research in functional programming

2009-05-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 3. Mai 2009 23:13 schrieb Louis Wasserman: Where might I find or submit a paper on functional data structures? Examples I've found so far include ICFP http://www.icfpconference.org/ and the JFP http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayJournal?jid=JFP, but Google hasn't found me

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Interesting Thread on OO Usefulness (scala mailing list)

2009-05-05 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 4. Mai 2009 13:35 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: Hello Paolo, Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:05:44 PM, you wrote: Martin Odersky advocates the OO features of the scala language proposing an interesting problem where the OO approach seams valuable. i know two problems in Haskell/GHC that

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Interesting Thread on OO Usefulness (scala mailing list)

2009-05-07 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 5. Mai 2009 18:39 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: Hello Wolfgang, Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 8:27:17 PM, you wrote: i know two problems in Haskell/GHC that require OO-loke features - extensible exceptions and GUI widget types hierarchy Note that you don’t need different types for

Re: [Haskell-cafe] commending Design concepts in programming languages

2009-05-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 7. Mai 2009 14:42 schrieb Daniel Fischer: Of course, if centuries ago people had decided to write the argument before the function, composition would've been defined the other way round. They haven't. Algebraists used to write x f instead of f(x) at least in the 1980s. I think,

Re: [darcs-users] [Haskell-cafe] Darcs as undo/redo system?

2009-05-12 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 18:43 schrieb Jason Dagit: If you wanted to work on this, I would encourage you to read more about patch theory[1,2,3,4] and also try out libdarcs[5]. Is libdarcs the same as the darcs library package on Hackage (which exports the darcs API)? Best wishes, Wolfgang

Re: [Haskell-cafe] commending Design concepts in programming languages

2009-05-12 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 14:31 schrieb Daniel Fischer: Though I had no contact with algebraists in the 1980s, I also hadn’t. However, nowadays I have contact with someone who was an algebraist in the 1980s. It’s my boss (professor), by the way. :-) I think, also category theorists often

Re: [darcs-users] [Haskell-cafe] Darcs as undo/redo system?

2009-05-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 13. Mai 2009 02:55 schrieb Trent W. Buck: Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org writes: Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 18:43 schrieb Jason Dagit: If you wanted to work on this, I would encourage you to read more about patch theory[1,2,3,4] and also try out libdarcs[5

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Removing mtl from the Haskell Platform

2009-05-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 13. Mai 2009 01:03 schrieb rocon...@theorem.ca: I wanted to pass this idea around the cafe to get some thoughts before submitting a trac on this topic. I'd like to see the mtl removed from the Haskell Platform. The mtl was a tremendous step forward when it was developed.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] GUIs, FRP, (Delimited) Continuations and Zippers

2009-05-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 16. Mai 2009 16:18 schrieb GüŸnther Schmidt: Hi all, In my app, there is one part which has a rather complicated GUI logic, it involves n drop downs with n choices each. Whenever the current selection in one of the drop downs changes by user interaction, the other (n-1) drop

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Creating a new Haskell mailing list

2009-06-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 18. Juni 2009 16:21 schrieb Henning Thielemann: Ryan Trinkle schrieb: Hi all, I'm interested in starting a mailing list on haskell.org http://haskell.org. Who should I talk to about such things? Is it a mailing list related to a project? Then you may request a project

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative IO

2009-07-10 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 9. Juli 2009 15:27 schrieb Cristiano Paris: As a joke, I wrote an instance of Alternative for IO actions: {-# LANGUAGE ScopedTypeVariables #-} module Main where import Control.Applicative import Control.Exception instance Alternative IO where empty = undefined x | y =

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: AC-Vector, AC-Colour and AC-EasyRaster-GTK

2009-07-10 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 05:26 schrieb rocon...@theorem.ca: I find it amazing that you independently chose to spell colour with a `u'. It makes me feel better about my choice. I have to admit that it makes me unhappy. :-( Why do we use English for identifiers? Because English is the language

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative IO

2009-07-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 23:41 schrieben Sie: On Jul 10, 2009, at 4:35 AM, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: I fear that this instance doesn’t satisfy required laws. As far as I know, the following equalities should hold: (*) = () f * empty = empty empty | g = g

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative IO

2009-07-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 11. Juli 2009 00:16 schrieben Sie: On Friday 10 July 2009 4:35:15 am Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: I fear that this instance doesn’t satisfy required laws. As far as I know, the following equalities should hold: (*) = () f * empty = empty IO already fails at this law

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: AC-Vector, AC-Colour and AC-EasyRaster-GTK

2009-07-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 14:42 schrieb Robin Green: On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:44:51 +0200 Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: PASCAL uses “program”, not “programme”, The word program (as in computer program) is spelled program in both British and American English. Probably

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