Re: [Haskell-cafe] Is it written down somewhere what sort of things belong in Data.*?
I do not know of a specific definition, but I think the heuristic for inclusion in Data is that which is neither control nor chaos. By 'control' I mean functions that are often baked into other languages, such as exception handling, bracketing, but which can be implemented as library functions in Haskell. By 'chaos', I mean anything specialized to a particular field (e.g., biology, physics), even if it be part of computer science, e.g., software management, computer graphics. What's left are data types and structures that are ubiquitous (e.g., lists, sets, maps), essential for basic communication (e.g., characters, text, encryption, serialization, persistence) or language (but not compiler) specific (e.g., reflection, dynamic typing, generics). On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:50 AM, David Fox dds...@gmail.com wrote: I'm never quite sure what the distinction is that defines the modules under Data.*. Can anyone explain? -david ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Time for a new logo?
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: Could you attach it to the web page, http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_logos/New_logo_ideas I tossed up a quickie candidate there as well. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] PRE-ANNOUNCE: cabal-debian (automatically debianize cabal packages)
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Can the Debian/Haskell interest parties say something about who's doing what in this area? Is there hope for a concrete effort to import large numbers of hackage apps and tools into Debian? I made a stab at it, but ran into issues with build dependencies that I didn't have the time to solve, so I switched to just importing the packages I needed. Currently, we at SeeReason are building packages for our own use based on Ubuntu Hardy Heron. People are welcome to use them at their own risk. If it breaks your computer, you get to keep both halves. People are also welcome to use our autobuilder, which we use to build the packages. All packages can be found at deb.seereason.com. We are trying to limit the amount of time we spend on these tools, but would be happy to provide pointers to self-starters and/or discuss options for other people to work on them. Cliff ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] So how do people pronounce 'cabal' around here?
As in the dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cabal), accent on the second syllable, which is pronounced like none of ball, balance, boll and bale. Roughly the same rhythm as kaboom. On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Dan Piponi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In particular, which syllable gets the stress, and what are the lengths of the two vowels? Couldn't find anything in the FAQ (http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cabal/FAQ). -- Dan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] So how do people pronounce 'cabal' around here?
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Benjamin L. Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, according to the definition that you used ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cabal), there are the following two pronunciations of cabal: 1) \kə-ˈbäl\ 2) \kə-ˈbal\ The a phoneme of the ˈbal syllable of pronunciation 2 is actually defined to be identical to the first syllable ˈba of balance ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/balance); viz.: \ˈba-lən(t)s\ But if you say it that way, you get kicked out of the cabal. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FP and Quality
ICFP 2007 introduced a new category of paper called an Experience Report, which is not required to add to the body of research knowledge, but rather report on the effectiveness of functional tools and methods in full-scale projects. You can read the official description in the call for papers: http://www.icfpconference.org/icfp2008/cfp/cfp.html The ICFP 2007 schedule lists all the experience reports here: http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/schedule.html You can get the PDFs for the experience report (and talk slides) we wrote describing our use of FP at Linspire here: http://seereason.com/publications/ Cliff On Feb 4, 2008 2:20 PM, PR Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks I'm thinking of writing a little essay arguing the case for the advantages of FP for producing quality software. Can the list recommend any papers/articles which I can use as sources of my argument? I have access to the IEEE database too although earlier I couldn't find anything on the subject. Thanks, Paul ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Bug in System.Environment - EOT inserted into argument string
No, I cannot reproduce this. 2008/2/4 David Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm seeing the character ^D inserted into argument strings that are about 256 characters long with GHC 6.8.2. Anyone else? Test.hs: module Main where import System.Environment import System.IO main = do args - getArgs hPutStrLn stderr (args: ++ show args) Output: $ ghc6 --make Test.hs -o test [1 of 1] Compiling Main ( Test.hs, Test.o ) Linking test ... $ ./test 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 args: [01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234\EOT5678901234567890123456789] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] parsec and bytestring; was: hxt memory useage
It well might. I believe you can do this yourself. Jeremy Shaw wrote a parser for Debian control files, which was useless on the really large package index files. He switched it over to using bytestrings and that solved the problem. You can find the code in a darcs repository at: http://src.seereason.com/haskell-debian. It may reference other libraries hosted at that URL, which you can browse from the base URL. On Jan 24, 2008 1:34 PM, Matthew Pocock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would a bytestring-backed implementation of parsec solve my problems? Is there such a beast out there? Matthew ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Evolutionary Computing
On Jan 24, 2008 3:55 PM, PR Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi What does the list think of EC? Genetic algorithm is apparently the latest thing. They've been around for a while, actually. See below for some work from the early 1990's. Is EC mathematically reasonable? I'm not sure what that means, but they can be useful, especially when you are looking for something that is novel, rather than meeting specific, pre-determined criteria. Karl Sims made a business out of them for generating graphics. Survival of the prettiest, he called it. For more info: http://www.genarts.com/karl/ http://www.genarts.com/karl/papers/siggraph91.html ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] One-line haskell program with GHC
2008/1/18 Sukit Tretriluxana [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I don't know if it's been asked before. I just wonder if GHC supports some sort of one-liner program that can be specify right as the argument to either ghci or runghc program. In perl, they have something like perl *-e* 'print Hello' Do we have similar thing with GHC? ghc -e 'putStrLn Yes, we do.' ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] libmpd-haskell RFC
A comment on documentation. I find it very frustrating when libraries are described as an interface to X, where X is often an acronym that has multiple definitions on the web. Lots of clicking got me to 'Music Player Demon', but no further description or links. Just a little more information, say in a top-level README and/or the Haddock docs would be greatly appreciated. 2008/1/16 Ben Sinclair [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello all, If anybody has already used libmpd-haskell (the darcs repo version) or would like to look over it I would appreciate their comments. Thanks, Ben http://turing.une.edu.au/~bsinclai/code/libmpd-haskell/http://turing.une.edu.au/%7Ebsinclai/code/libmpd-haskell/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHjeRPDo+byWtWM/kRApQhAJ9eMVQR+Bd5hgmsXSF9rRvVCS8ZxACg15rl FuRALK8V7ArBSxR9FvTYUr4= =d97o -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Not to load Prelude
Use: import Prelude () On Jan 10, 2008 11:22 AM, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is it possible not to load Prelude module when compiling a Haskell module? Or instruct ghc to unload it? Thanks, Maurício ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why this exception occurs ?
Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: I've always thought that the obfuscation opportunities for Num literal overloading, combined with Num *overflowing* were underappreciated. Search for 'mel blackjack'. You and Mel would get along fine. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How Albus Dumbledore would sell Haskell
Seth Gordon wrote: I think a more powerful argument would be to talk about cases where Haskell is *actually being used* industrially. E.g., these folks at Credit Suisse are using Haskell for their analytics because in their line of work, if the implementation of the code doesn't match up perfectly with the spec, their employer could lose millions of dollars, and the programmers might not notice the bug until those millions were long gone. Indeed, hence the Haskell Communities and Activities Report http://www.haskell.org/communities/, Commerial Uses of Function Programming (CUFP) http://cufp.galois.com/, and the new category of Experience Report http://icfp07.eecs.harvard.edu/cfp.html#experience at ICFP. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Type classes and type equality
Jeremy Shaw wrote: I noticed that the results can be a bit suprising sometimes. See if you can predict the answers to these (in ghci): Interesting examples. Here's another one that I would find problematic: *SameType same Nothing (Just xyzzy) False *SameType same (Nothing :: Maybe String) (Just xyzzy) True And of course, the case with the integers lifts right up: *SameType same (Just 1) (Just 1) False ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] and sequencing [newbie]
Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: david: Ah... so the secret is in the hidden variables. On some level I am beginning to fear that Monads resurrect some of the scariest aspects of method overriding from my OO programming days. Do you (all) ever find that the ever changing nature of = makes code hard to read? You always know which monad you're in though, since its in the type. And the scary monads aren't terribly common anyway. Also, the monad laws impose a level of sanity that most OO frameworks do not, right? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] our worst unsafePerformIO nightmares are upon us!
Nicolas Frisby wrote: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/86b8/ Now you can really show your coders why unsafePerformIO is to be avoided! On the contrary, seems like a little more non-determinism would really make that thing into an effective weapon. ;-) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] PDF library?
I don't suppose anyone has any Haskell code that understands the PDF format, do they? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Writing Haskell For Dummies Or At Least For People Who Feel Like Dummies When They See The Word 'Monad'
Kirsten Chevalier wrote: There's also excellent Haskell documentation available on the web already, but people like to buy books and they like to have an artifact that they can hold in their hands without getting laser printer toner all over themselves. It also helps to collect and edit. Wiki's collect a lot of info, but they are often poorly organized and hard to search. I've always thought this book should be called ``Haskell for Hackers''. I've been collecting guidelines for some time. Here are a few: * The introduction should have some compelling arguments and examples about why someone should bet their business on functional programming. An important focus should be the rise of dual- and quad-core processors, emphasizing the potential for good libraries and compilers to leverage these effectively. * Each and every bit of syntax should be explained in plain language and these explanations should be typeset like theorems, numbered and offset from the rest of the text. The explanations should only use words and concepts that are known to all imperative programmers, or terms that have already been carefully introduced and defined. * Each code fragment should be explained in plain language. Quite often Haskell literature explains something in terms of Haskell, which is fine if you already know Haskell, but maddening if you don't. * IO must be introduced and used in the first chapter. Experienced programmers are not willing to wait until page 327 for some hint about how to replace printf. That doesn't mean that the first chapter will be all about monads, either, just some basics of how to perform IO along with some examples. * Examples should generally be pulled from the imperative literature, not the functional. http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Simple_unix_tools is a good example. * Alternatives to lex/yacc, shell programming, perl regular expressions and awk/perl style text processing must be covered. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] New Name for MissingH?
John Goerzen wrote: Quick feedback time... One comment people made in the Future of MissingH thread was that the name isn't very suggestive of what the library does. My colleague uses modules called `My' to hold functions that seem like they should be in a library, but which aren't yet mature enough to be promoted. I've always thought of MissingH the same way. It would make a good place for new functions like intercalate to be placed while they are being considered. But eventually, good functions and modules should graduate. ConfigParser and HVFS are good candidates to be standalone libraries, as you say. I've been meaning to submit the 'merge' function that we sent you, as well. If MissingH acted as a general waystation, we could keep a stable library base installed on our systems, but get the latest that people are talking about by pulling in that one package. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] split string into n parts
Udo Stenzel wrote: jim burton wrote: I want to split a string into 5 parts of equal length, with the last fifth padded if necessary, but can't get it right - here's what I've got - fifths s = unwords.take 5.unfoldr (Just . splitAt l) $ s ++ repeat ' ' where l = (length s + 4) `div` 5 Okay, you win. That's the nicest answer so far, I think. But here are solutions with a different theme altogether. They are based on groupBy, not unfoldr. I really like the new `on` function. module Chunk where import Data.List (on) f g = \x y - f (g x) (g y) groupByIndex test xs = map (map snd) $ groupBy (test `on` fst) $ zip [0..] xs -- chunk : divide the input string into n chunks of equal length (len), with padding -- chunk1 accepts the number of chunks chunk1 n pad xs = unwords $ take n $ groupByIndex ((==) `on` (`div` len)) $ xs ++ repeat pad where len = (length xs + n - 1) `div` n -- chunk2 accepts the length of each chunk chunk2 len pad xs = unwords $ take n $ groupByIndex ((==) `on` (`div` len)) $ xs ++ repeat pad where n = (length xs + len - 1) `div` len ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Debugging Newton's method for square roots
Vraj Mohan wrote: This works for several examples that I tried out but goes into an infinite loop for my_sqrt 96. How do I go about debugging this code in GHC or Hugs? (The equivalent code is well-behaved on MIT Scheme) There was some excellent advice in the other responses, but I thought it worth mentioning that your Haskell code converges if you step up from Float - Float to Double - Double. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Neil Mitchell wrote: If you download and compile hoogle from the darcs repo, there is a console version included. Of course, lambdabot gives you lots more than just hoogle, so might still be the one for you. I've been avoiding that, because there are too many things I'm tempted to fiddle with inside it. But you've talked me into it. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Neil Mitchell wrote: Just as a warning, I've been offline without a computer for a week, and have now entirely redesigned pretty much every aspect of Hoogle 3 in preparation for Hoogle 4. Its all on paper for now, but in the very near future Hoogle will get completely rewritten :) Excellent. I see on your long term list an item for specifying module names as input. I don't suppose you plan to support something like 'Data.*' returning a list of all the modules at that level of the hierarchy? Recently I've been wanting an interactive command for browsing the module hierarchy. Switching to a browser just isn't cutting it anymore. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A program which never crashes (even when a function calls error)
Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: [It is a philosophical question, not a practical programming problem.] I'm used, in imperative programming languages with exceptions (like Python) to call any function without fear of stopping the program because I can always catch the exceptions with things like (Python): while not over: try: code which may raise an exception... except Exception e: do something clever How to do it in Haskell? How can I call functions like Prelude.head while being sure my program won't stop, even if I call head on an empty list (thus calling error)? Here's another way of looking at it, that I've grown fond of. If your program is a total function, then there should be no exceptions. That is, if you properly model the world, in all its messiness, then you can write a function that maps every instance of the world to some valid output, even if that output is ``Sorry.'' It might seem a daunting task, but liberal use of the Maybe class from the ground up helps. We have suffered through quite a bit of this with our hardware detector, where unexpected situations are the norm. My colleague David Fox has spent considerable time computing reasonable answers in seemingly impossible situations, to the point where you cannot turn around without bumping into a Maybe construct. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] do we have something like isDefined or isNull in Haskell?
Duncan Coutts wrote:
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 13:11 +0100, Duncan Coutts wrote:
then you can construct your records using:
foo = default { weight = 3.2 }
Oops, as David House pointed out to me that should of course be
foo = default { weight = Just 3.2 }
I think the correct response in these cases is: That was left as an
exercise for the type checker.
On another note, who picked the word `Just' for this type and how did
we end up with Some x | None in O'Caml and Just x | Nothing in Haskell?
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Separate a string into a list of strings
Sara Kenedy wrote: Hi all, I want to write a function to separate a string into a list of strings separated by commas. Example: separate :: String - [String] separate "Haskell, Haskell, and Haskell" = ["Haskell", "Haskell", "and Haskell"] If anyone has some ideas, please share with me. Thanks. Here is a solution using the Posix regex module. Prelude Text.Regex splitRegex (mkRegex "[ \t]*,[ \t]*") "Haskell, Haskell, and Haskell" ["Haskell","Haskell","and Haskell"] This form should work regardless of locale, but appears to be broken, although I expect this is either my fault or that of the underlying Posix library: Prelude Text.Regex splitRegex (mkRegex "[:space:]*,[:space:]*") "Haskell, Haskell, and Haskell" ["Haskell"," Haskell"," and Haskell"] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Separate a string into a list of strings
Brandon Moore wrote: Going by man grep, those [:foo:] classes are only special inside a character class, otherwise [:space:]* = [aceps:]*. Prelude Text.Regex splitRegex (mkRegex [[:space:]]*,[[:space:]]*) Haskell, Haskell, and Haskell [Haskell,Haskell,and Haskell] The smart money was on user error. Thanks. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Lambda abstraction analogous to imperative pseudo-code?
The Wikipedia article on lambda abstractions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_abstraction) has a statement that does not resonate with me: A lambda abstraction is to a functional programming language such as Scheme what pseudo-code is to an imperative programming language. Does anyone else find this to be a peculiar statement? If you think it is accurate, could you provide an alternate explanation and/or example to the one in the article? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Features of Haskell
Tracy R Reed wrote: Jared Updike wrote: I was always impressed with Autrijus Tang's presentation here: http://www.pugscode.org/euroscon/haskell.xul (view with Firefox or other Gecko-based browser) Unfortunately, this presentation alone is incomprehensible to someone who does not know Haskell. I suspect it would do much better with audio. I think Haskell really needs something like http://oodt.jpl.nasa.gov/better-web-app.mov and http://ia301106.us.archive.org/1/items/SeanKellyGettingYourFeetWetwithPlone/wetfeet.mov to make the point. Sean Kelly's screencasts made a big impression and have been very widely downloaded and have really done a lot to promote Plone in recent months. Interesting. I just gave a talk to the SGVLUG (San Gabriel Valley Linux Users Group, which is centered at Cal Tech). It was the first time I've given such a talk, half about Linspire/Freespire, half about Haskell features, and the other three halves were technical problems. I looked at Tang's presentation as well, and while there were parts that I thought wonderful (the definition of fibonacci with parallel list comprehension, for example), I thought that most of it would go right past an audience of beginners. I didn't get a chance to practice my talk beforehand, so there were rough spots, but in general I felt they got as much as could be expected in a whirlwind tour. Of course, I lost them completely at the IO monad. Writing the slides, I found that it is hard to disentangle all the concepts and build from the ground up. Those of us who use it have forgotten just how many new concepts there are and how tightly bound together they are in Haskell. As always, when you try to teach something you get a deeper understanding of it. I'll see if I can't clean up some of the examples with hindsight and send it along to you and see what you think. Cliff ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Features of Haskell
John Meacham wrote: ramble On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 02:16:47AM -0700, Clifford Beshers wrote: Interesting. I just gave a talk to the SGVLUG (San Gabriel Valley Linux Users Group, which is centered at Cal Tech). It was the first time I've given such a talk, half about Linspire/Freespire, half about Haskell features, and the other three halves were technical problems. Oh, I live a block from Caltech, I didn't know there was a Haskell talk there. Dang! I referenced your 'small but featureful grep' as an example of how Haskell should help reduce the need for `little languages' and two-level languages. I promised to come back in six months or so and talk about the progress we've made on development tools for Freespire. I'll let you know. Writing the slides, I found that it is hard to disentangle all the concepts and build from the ground up. Those of us who use it have forgotten just how many new concepts there are and how tightly bound together they are in Haskell. As always, when you try to teach something you get a deeper understanding of it. I'll see if I can't clean up some of the examples with hindsight and send it along to you and see what you think. I always prefered using a chalkboard (or whiteboard, or overhead + markers) instead of a pre-prepared slideshow when giving talks. it lets me change the focus depending on audience reaction and questions more. If you can get away with it, I'd recommend it for future talks, ignore anyone that says it is not profesional, they wouldn't have paid attention anyway to anything other than your font choices and choice of screen-wipes between slides. If I had been doing a tutorial, I might have done that, but I was doing a whirlwind tour where the goal was to get people excited. Also, I find that the first time presenting some information, I do better if I lay it out before hand. Explanation of code is a different beast than creation of it. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Keeping input separate from output?
ihope wrote: How would I keep the Foo! from conflicting with the Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.? Well, if two millennia were not enough, I'm not sure any amount of Haskell will help. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Linspire/Freespire Core OS Team and Haskell
The OS team at Linspire, Inc. would like to announce that we are standardizing on Haskell as our preferred language for core OS development. We are redoing a bunch of our infrastructure using Haskell as our common standard language. Our first task is redoing our Debian package builder (aka autobuilder) in Haskell. Other tools such as ISO builders, package dependency checkers are in progress. The goal is to make a really tight simple set of tools that will let developers contribute to Freespire, based on Debian tools whenever possible. Our hardware detector, currently in OCaml, is on the block to be rewritten as well. There are four of us using Haskell, all CCed on this message. All of us have been using functional languages for quite some time. At Linspire, our choices have been OCaml and Haskell. David Fox wrote the hardware detector in OCaml and is now porting it to Haskell. Jeremy Shaw has been doing various utilities in Haskell for several years. Sean Meiners recently wrote an application for managing his recipe collection and is now hooked. I am porting our CD build procedure from OCaml to Haskell. We are interested in many other uses of Haskell. The recent discussion about Haskell as a shell interests greatly, for example, as we have all suffered through years of bash code. We'd also like to make some Haskell bindings for Qt and KDE, though at the moment we don't have a good plan to tackle that problem efficiently. To date, Linspire (formerly Lindows) has focused on polishing Linux for the consumer market. I mentioned Freespire, above. We announced Freespire recently (www.freespire.org). Essentially it is a more open, developer friendly version of Linspire. http://freespire.org/about/vision and http://freespire.org/support/faqs have good overviews. Access through apt, open-source CNR client and many other good things. I mention Freespire because some of our colleagues were concerned that using Haskell would isolate us from the larger community of developers and make it hard to find new employees skilled in Haskell, should we need to. From our perspective, functional programming makes us more effective and we think that getting even a few people who know Haskell hacking with us is a better combination than lots of Perl and bash. I'm not sure I expect anyone on this list to disagree, but still I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject. Also, Linspire is based on Debian. We've talked a little with John Goerzen who announced his missingH library here a while back. We've imported it and expect to pass updates back to him as well as any other libraries and tools that he would be interested in includng in the Debian archive. Also, it seems there are quite a few other libraries out there which are either not debianized or stale. We are looking into helping the folks on the debian-haskell list with that, if possible, documenting and automating wherever possible. Clifford Beshers [EMAIL PROTECTED] OS Team Lead Linspire, Inc. (I'm subscribed to this list from my personal account. Feel free to use either address.) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
