Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-02-16 Thread Gregg Reynolds
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Conal Elliott wrote: > I call it "an m" or (more specifically) "an Int m" or "a list of Int". For > instance, "a list" or "an Int list" or "a list of Int". - Conal > > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Luke Palmer wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:39 AM,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-02-14 Thread wren ng thornton
Alexander Solla wrote: On Jan 27, 2010, at 4:57 PM, Conor McBride wrote: Yes, the separation is not clear in Haskell. (I consider this unfortunate.) I was thinking of Paul Levy's call-by-push-value calculus, where the distinction is clear, but perhaps not as fluid as one might like. What, e

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-31 Thread Tristan Seligmann
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Conal Elliott wrote: > I don't like this bias toward singling out Monad among all of the type > classes, thereby perpetuating the misleading mystique surrounding Monad.  If > you're going to call [3,5,8] "a monadic value", then please give equal time > to other typ

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-29 Thread Conal Elliott
I don't like this bias toward singling out Monad among all of the type classes, thereby perpetuating the misleading mystique surrounding Monad. If you're going to call [3,5,8] "a monadic value", then please give equal time to other type classes by also calling [3,5,8] "a functorial value" ("functo

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-29 Thread Conal Elliott
I call it "an m" or (more specifically) "an Int m" or "a list of Int". For instance, "a list" or "an Int list" or "a list of Int". - Conal On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Luke Palmer wrote: > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Jochem Berndsen > wrote: > >> Now, here's the question: Is is cor

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-28 Thread Donn Cave
Quoth Daniel Fischer , > Am Donnerstag 28 Januar 2010 09:14:38 schrieb Ketil Malde: >> Daniel Fischer writes: >>> As usual, that only works part of the time. [1,4,15,3,7] is not a >>> computation, it's a list of numbers. A plain and simple everyday >>> value. >> >> But isn't a value of (IO String)

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-28 Thread Daniel Fischer
Am Donnerstag 28 Januar 2010 09:14:38 schrieb Ketil Malde: > Daniel Fischer writes: > >> It has been known to call such things 'computations', > > I think "actions" has been used, too, but perhaps mostly for things in > IO and similar monads? > > >> as opposed to 'values', and even to separate the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-28 Thread Ketil Malde
Daniel Fischer writes: >> It has been known to call such things 'computations', I think "actions" has been used, too, but perhaps mostly for things in IO and similar monads? >> as opposed to 'values', and even to separate the categories of types >> and expressions which deliver the two. > As

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Alexander Solla
On Jan 27, 2010, at 4:57 PM, Conor McBride wrote: Yes, the separation is not clear in Haskell. (I consider this unfortunate.) I was thinking of Paul Levy's call-by-push-value calculus, where the distinction is clear, but perhaps not as fluid as one might like. What, exactly, is the suppos

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Conor McBride
On 27 Jan 2010, at 22:02, Daniel Fischer wrote: Am Mittwoch 27 Januar 2010 22:50:35 schrieb Conor McBride: It has been known to call such things 'computations', as opposed to 'values', and even to separate the categories of types and expressions which deliver the two. As usual, th

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Daniel Fischer
Am Mittwoch 27 Januar 2010 22:50:35 schrieb Conor McBride: > > It has been known to call such things 'computations', as opposed to > 'values', and even to separate the categories of types and expressions > which deliver the two. As usual, that only works part of the time. [1,4,15,3,7] is not a co

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Conor McBride
Hi On 27 Jan 2010, at 20:14, Luke Palmer wrote: On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Jochem Berndsen wrote: Now, here's the question: Is is correct to say that [3, 5, 8] is a monad? In what sense would this be a monad? I don't quite get your question. I think the question is this: if m is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Jochem Berndsen
Luke Palmer wrote: > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Jochem Berndsen wrote: >>> Now, here's the question: Is is correct to say that [3, 5, 8] is a >>> monad? >> In what sense would this be a monad? I don't quite get your question. > > I think the question is this: if m is a monad, then what do

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Luke Palmer
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Jochem Berndsen wrote: >> Now, here's the question: Is is correct to say that [3, 5, 8] is a >> monad? > > In what sense would this be a monad? I don't quite get your question. I think the question is this: if m is a monad, then what do you call a thing of type

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Daniel Peebles
The list type constructor ([] :: * -> *) is a functor, and if you add the implementations of join/return (or just return and bind) those together make the monad. The value-level list [3,5,8] is just a list :) On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Andrew Coppin wrote: > Here's one for you to ponder. >

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Jochem Berndsen
Andrew Coppin wrote: >> 7 is a number. 7 is an integer, and integers are numbers. > > 7 is not a field. 7 is an element of [at least one] field, but 7 itself > is not a field. > > 7 is not a group. Why not? It might be useful to use the notation '7' for the cyclic group with 7 elements. > 7 is

[Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-01-27 Thread Andrew Coppin
Here's one for you to ponder. 7 is a number. 7 is an integer, and integers are numbers. 7 is not a field. 7 is an element of [at least one] field, but 7 itself is not a field. 7 is not a group. 7 is a member of the set of integers, but the set of integers is not a group either. The set of in