[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Steve Schafer wrote: Heinrich Apfelmus wrote: I agree, and this is why I phased out apfelmus in favor of the pseudonym Heinrich Apfelmus. You mean your name isn't really Applesauce? I would probably apply for a name change if it were. ;) Regards, Heinrich Apfelmus -- http://apfelmus.nfshost.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Ivan Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: 5) No-one is convincing anyone else to their point of view, so we have a stale mate. Can you really legally distribute your software under an open source license if you don't use your real name? At least the Linux kernel has a policy these days that contributors pretty much have to reveal their real name to avoid legal issues. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Ertugrul Soeylemez wrote: Human identity is much more than just a file descriptor or a map key, and people from academia often don't get this, because they don't have to fear using their real names. Particularly in economically illiberal countries being known as the author of a certain Haskell package can get you into trouble either at work or even with the government. It can also prevent you from getting a job. FWIW, I think this reason alone is enough justification to lift the restriction. Personally: after using a consistent pseudonym for years, I was eventually convinced[1] that real names are best when you're involved in contributing to online communities--- and I do mean *communities*, not mere interaction. But, while I feel it's probably in my best interest to have my community deeds associated with my real name, I'm under no delusions that it is in everyone's best interests that their deeds be so. I've never had to deal with illiberal governments. I have, however, worked with a number of excellent hackers who live with them. Also I don't believe there's anything sacrosanct about real names. Is the persona we have in the work place more real than the one we have with friends? To say nothing of the countless friends of mine who've legally changed their names for this or that reason. Our identity and the status accorded to us does not come from a name legally given at birth. It comes from the personae with which we participate in the world. [1] http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#status -- Live well, ~wren ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Pekka Enberg penb...@cs.helsinki.fi writes: Can you really legally distribute your software under an open source license if you don't use your real name? I think it would be hard to enforce any copyright license without revealing the connection between your pseudonym and real person, but I don't see any reason why a pseudonym should make it actually illegal to distribute your own work, open source or not. There seems to be some precedent: plenty of books, music (and even certain scientific works) have been written under pseudonym, without anybody suggesting these works not be covered by copyright, or that their distribution would be against the law. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Pekka == Pekka Enberg penb...@cs.helsinki.fi writes: Pekka On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Ivan Miljenovic Pekka ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: 5) No-one is convincing anyone else to their point of view, so we have a stale mate. Pekka Can you really legally distribute your software under an open Pekka source license if you don't use your real name? Well, yes, you can. The FSF has always suggested that you can assign the copyright of your GPL'ed software to them, in some circumstances. Note I'm very much pro the real-name policy in principle, but I don't see how it can be enforced. -- Colin Adams Preston Lancashire () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Ivan Miljenovic wrote: 5) No-one is convincing anyone else to their point of view, so we have a stale mate. Would allowing pseudonyms but requiring them to be explicitly marked as such be an acceptable compromise? Ganesh === Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html === ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On 6 April 2010 05:01, Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com wrote: When you say convincing, you are talking about yourself being convinced, right? So this paragraph means The arguments against my position haven't convinced me, but the arguments for my position have. Had I been told a convincing reason for the restriction, I would have changed my mind on the issue. This paragraph was pointing out that I hadn't. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On 6 April 2010 05:32, Ivan Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: 5) No-one is convincing anyone else to their point of view, so we have a stale mate. Let me summarise the main arguments against the restriction: 1. It stops people from contributing to hackage. (It is immaterial that if you were in their position, you would have no problem with the restriction. Because of this policy, we have fewer libraries on hackage.) The reason this came up is because someone on IRC wrote a great implementation of which(1) as a Haskell library. I suggested they put it on hackage, and they told me they wouldn't because of this policy. The community loses out. 2. Inconsistency. If someone is known by their pseudonym on the mailing list, IRC, haskellwiki, blogs and so on, that is how I know them. How am I meant to find out their real name, in general? The rest of the internet works off pseudonyms and it is more convenient for everyone if hackage follows suit. 3. Privacy issues. Some people simply cannot reveal their real names. I've been over this thread and couldn't see anywhere where you'd made an attempt to refute these arguments, so I guess you take them as solid. On the other hand, every argument put forward by the pro-restriction group has been picked at and argued against by those against the restriction. That is not a stalemate. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
David House dmho...@gmail.com writes: 2. Inconsistency. If someone is known by their pseudonym on the mailing list, IRC, haskellwiki, blogs and so on, that is how I know them. How am I meant to find out their real name, in general? The rest of the internet works off pseudonyms and it is more convenient for everyone if hackage follows suit. And yet this is inconsistency remains regardless: people use different aliases on IRC to the mailing list to Hackage (though I think this is mainly because they have old IRC nicks they still use for internal consistency). I've been over this thread and couldn't see anywhere where you'd made an attempt to refute these arguments, so I guess you take them as solid. On the other hand, every argument put forward by the pro-restriction group has been picked at and argued against by those against the restriction. That is not a stalemate. A stalemate occurs when people disagree rather than one side having more compelling arguments. For example, I understand and respect your arguments; I just don't find them compelling enough (since I find it a pain trying to match up different nicks, etc.; though this is to do with the inconsistency you mention above). -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:06:27 +1000, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: I've been over this thread and couldn't see anywhere where you'd made an attempt to refute these arguments, so I guess you take them as solid. On the other hand, every argument put forward by the pro-restriction group has been picked at and argued against by those against the restriction. That is not a stalemate. A stalemate occurs when people disagree rather than one side having more compelling arguments. For example, I understand and respect your arguments; I just don't find them compelling enough (since I find it a pain trying to match up different nicks, etc.; though this is to do with the inconsistency you mention above). So, what's next? Ban anyone hiding behind a nickname on the mailing list? On IRC? On wiki? This will bring you consistency. As a side effect, it will bring to the Haskell community the fame of being one of the most inadequate open source communities. Let's conduct a thought experiment: suppose hackage has just launched and its policy is yet to be decided. Do you find your own arguments compelling enough to accept the policy of Real Name Requirement? Taking into account that this policy is _inconsistent_ with other Haskell resources policy. -- Roman Cheplyaka, who has nothing to hide but hates silly enforcements ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
David House dmho...@gmail.com writes: Let me summarise the main arguments against the restriction: 1. It stops people from contributing [..] 2. Inconsistency [..] 3. Privacy issues [..] 4. It inteferes with people's freedom - who has the right to dictate what name a person (or, for that matter, a group of people) should be known as? 5. It encourages dishonesty: if you want to contribute but not reveal your real name, you have the option to lie about it, and can be fairly confident your lie will never be called. +1 for allowing nicks. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
2010/4/6 r...@ro-che.info: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:06:27 +1000, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: I've been over this thread and couldn't see anywhere where you'd made an attempt to refute these arguments, so I guess you take them as solid. On the other hand, every argument put forward by the pro-restriction group has been picked at and argued against by those against the restriction. That is not a stalemate. A stalemate occurs when people disagree rather than one side having more compelling arguments. For example, I understand and respect your arguments; I just don't find them compelling enough (since I find it a pain trying to match up different nicks, etc.; though this is to do with the inconsistency you mention above). So, what's next? Ban anyone hiding behind a nickname on the mailing list? On IRC? On wiki? This will bring you consistency. As a side effect, it will bring to the Haskell community the fame of being one of the most inadequate open source communities. http://lambda-the-ultimate.org is one lovely community that has that restriction: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/policies#Policies Actually, it's one of the best communities I know. I also think that many haskell-cafe readers agree on that. I also think that what is appropriate for mailing list is not appropriate for collective blog or site like hackage. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org writes: 5. It encourages dishonesty: if you want to contribute but not reveal your real name, you have the option to lie about it, and can be fairly confident your lie will never be called. This to me sounds like a reason _for_ the policy (actually, a stricter variant) rather than against... -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Let me summarise the main arguments against the restriction: 1. It stops people from contributing [..] 2. Inconsistency [..] 3. Privacy issues [..] 4. It inteferes with people's freedom - who has the right to dictate what name a person (or, for that matter, a group of people) should be known as? 5. It encourages dishonesty: if you want to contribute but not reveal your real name, you have the option to lie about it, and can be fairly confident your lie will never be called. +1 for allowing nicks. Another +1 from me. I must admit that I had never really thought about this restriction, but the arguments against the restriction clearly convince me. I have heard no valid arguments in favour of the restriction. I can see that there are advantages to requiring real names, but that only makes sense if it is enforced (and I certainly don't advocate that). The way it is now, where some people who just silently use pseudonyms get accounts, and others, who are not willing to lie, are rejected, is very bad. If people are really worried about trust, then a comment/reviewing system for Hackage is a better solution. Cheers, Andres -- Andres Loeh, Universiteit Utrecht mailto:and...@cs.uu.nl mailto:m...@andres-loeh.de http://www.andres-loeh.de ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
And another +1 from me too. Keeping the policy will only achieve that people who want to stay anonymous will stay away from hackage, and that's not something (IMHO) we should want. David. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 10:10:09AM +0100, David House wrote: 3. Privacy issues. Some people simply cannot reveal their real names. I've already said I was prepared to make exceptions in such cases, but perhaps you missed that. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Edward Z. Yang wrote: This is a pretty terrible reason, but I'm going to throw it out there: I like real names because they're much more aesthetically pleasing. I agree, and this is why I phased out apfelmus in favor of the pseudonym Heinrich Apfelmus. So, a more accurate policy would be to accept not only real names, but also names that look like they're real, i.e. aesthetically pleasing noms de plumes. Regards, Heinrich Apfelmus -- http://apfelmus.nfshost.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Serguey Zefirov sergu...@gmail.com wrote: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org is one lovely community that has that restriction: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/policies#Policies LtU has no restriction on user names. From LtU's policy: Anonymity and the use of pseudonyms is discouraged. I'm against *requiring* the use of a real name for hackage accounts. I have no problems with encouraging the use of given/everyday names. Regards, Roel ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Serguey Zefirov sergu...@gmail.com wrote: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org is one lovely community that has that restriction: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/policies#Policies I quote the policy in full here: Many of us here post with our real, full names. Anonymity and the use of pseudonyms is discouraged. We recognize that there can be legitimate reasons for wishing to post under a pseudonym. If you do not register using your real name, then if possible, please include identifying information in your user profile, such as your real name or a link to a personal home page or blog. Using a pseudonym by which you are known elsewhere can also help. This is a request, not a restriction. - Jake ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:57:30 +0200, you wrote: I agree, and this is why I phased out apfelmus in favor of the pseudonym Heinrich Apfelmus. You mean your name isn't really Applesauce? Steve Schafer ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Am Dienstag 06 April 2010 14:57:30 schrieb Heinrich Apfelmus: Edward Z. Yang wrote: This is a pretty terrible reason, but I'm going to throw it out there: I like real names because they're much more aesthetically pleasing. I agree, and this is why I phased out apfelmus in favor of the pseudonym Heinrich Apfelmus. If it's a pseudonym, you should've chosen Marcus Apfelmus - or did you never read Asterix? So, a more accurate policy would be to accept not only real names, but also names that look like they're real, i.e. aesthetically pleasing noms de plumes. I support that, with exceptions for sufficiently well known nicks (Gour spoke out; before you changed it, apfelmus fell into that category, a few others come to mind, but not many). Regards, Heinrich Apfelmus ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
David House wrote: An issue came up on #haskell recently with Hackage accounts requiring real names. The person in question (who didn't send this email as he's wishing to remain anonymous) applied for a Hackage account and was turned down, as he refused to offer his real name for the username. It appears to me that it's generally a good idea to adopt a pseudonym that looks like a real name anyway. The main benefit is that no one will notice that it's a pseudonym, thus avoiding such complications. Ivan Miljenovic wrote: I would wonder _why_ anyone would refuse to do so. Are they that ashamed of their own software that they wouldn't want to be associated with it, or is there some legal reason that they don't want to be associated with it? I'm sure they have their reasons, and who am I to judge them. Most likely, it's about googleability. Regards, Heinrich Apfelmus -- http://apfelmus.nfshost.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
I don't like using my real name on line unless I am 100% sure that I want my statements recorded for all time and available to anyone. Using a pseudonym allows me to be more honest in my opinions and it allows me to join groups without wondering how my membership in that group will be viewed in 20 years. Simply put, if you don't want much input from me or people that think like I do about anonymity, then, go ahead and require a real name. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:59:50 +0100 David == David House dmho...@gmail.com wrote: David Moreover it makes things more difficult for everyone else. If David someone uses their pseudonym on IRC, on the wiki, on the mailing David lists, on their website and so on and so forth, that's how I David know them. I agree. If anyone knows me in Haskell community, they know only about 'Gour' and I use this nick in email, IRC, wikis, forums...everywhere. That's also my 'name' on every public hosting (Launchpad, Bitbucket, Github...) and I'll keep continuing using it despite Hackage's policy. (btw, I hope to contribute some Haskell code in the future.) +1 for lift. ;) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Gwern Branwen gwern0 at gmail.com writes: It must've been put in place in the past year or two; I've never made any bones about using a pseudonym, and I had no trouble getting a Hackage account back when it was starting up. It may have helped that you appear to be using a pseudonym somewhat less obviously pseudonymous than Pseudonym? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
David House dmho...@gmail.com wrote: * Reputation. Using a RealName is the most credible way to build a combined online and RealLife identity. (Some people don't want this, for whatever reasons.) I agree that the restriction should be lifted. A lot of very smart people do not want their real names connected to certain projects or be found on the internet at all. And I don't agree that why not? can be a valid argument, but even if it is, the above is a valid answer to it. So all in all there is no convincing argument for the restriction, but at least two convincing arguments against. Human identity is much more than just a file descriptor or a map key, and people from academia often don't get this, because they don't have to fear using their real names. Particularly in economically illiberal countries being known as the author of a certain Haskell package can get you into trouble either at work or even with the government. It can also prevent you from getting a job. Nobody should be forced to use their real name anywhere on the internet, because unlike a bulletin board in a university, lab or school, the internet can be searched by employers easily. Greets Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Ertugrul Soeylemez e...@ertes.de wrote: David House dmho...@gmail.com wrote: * Reputation. Using a RealName is the most credible way to build a combined online and RealLife identity. (Some people don't want this, for whatever reasons.) I agree that the restriction should be lifted. A lot of very smart people do not want their real names connected to certain projects or be found on the internet at all. And I don't agree that why not? can be a valid argument, but even if it is, the above is a valid answer to it. So all in all there is no convincing argument for the restriction, but at least two convincing arguments against. When you say convincing, you are talking about yourself being convinced, right? So this paragraph means The arguments against my position haven't convinced me, but the arguments for my position have. Human identity is much more than just a file descriptor or a map key, and people from academia often don't get this, because they don't have to fear using their real names. Particularly in economically illiberal countries being known as the author of a certain Haskell package can get you into trouble either at work or even with the government. It can also prevent you from getting a job. Nobody should be forced to use their real name anywhere on the internet, because unlike a bulletin board in a university, lab or school, the internet can be searched by employers easily. Greets Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com wrote: So all in all there is no convincing argument for the restriction, but at least two convincing arguments against. When you say convincing, you are talking about yourself being convinced, right? So this paragraph means The arguments against my position haven't convinced me, but the arguments for my position have. Yes, of course, although I think that I can speak for some others as well. Greets, Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On 6 April 2010 14:28, Ertugrul Soeylemez e...@ertes.de wrote: Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com wrote: When you say convincing, you are talking about yourself being convinced, right? So this paragraph means The arguments against my position haven't convinced me, but the arguments for my position have. Yes, of course, although I think that I can speak for some others as well. So, let me summarise: 1) Hackage currently has a policy (not really a restriction if no Real World checks are done) that real names should be used. 2) Some people don't like this policy. 3) The people that don't like this policy have reasons why, which fails to convince people who have no problems with the policy. 4) The people who support the policy don't see why anyone has a problem with it. 5) No-one is convincing anyone else to their point of view, so we have a stale mate. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
On 04/05/2010 11:32 PM, Ivan Miljenovic wrote: 4) The people who support the policy don't see why anyone has a problem with it. I have seen no logical explanation of *why* anybody supports this policy. I've only seen vague hand-wavy statements like people who use real names are more reliable. Really? Where's the proof? I bet there's a fairly large number of badly maintained projects on Hackage, and I bet it has little or no correlation with the accuracy of the maintainers' listed names. Even if it's true, what harm is there in allowing less reliable maintainers to upload packages? So we end up with a few extra packages that nobody uses. So what? - Jake ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names
Ivan Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 April 2010 14:28, Ertugrul Soeylemez e...@ertes.de wrote: Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com wrote: When you say convincing, you are talking about yourself being convinced, right? So this paragraph means The arguments against my position haven't convinced me, but the arguments for my position have. Yes, of course, although I think that I can speak for some others as well. So, let me summarise: 1) Hackage currently has a policy (not really a restriction if no Real World checks are done) that real names should be used. 2) Some people don't like this policy. 3) The people that don't like this policy have reasons why, which fails to convince people who have no problems with the policy. 4) The people who support the policy don't see why anyone has a problem with it. 5) No-one is convincing anyone else to their point of view, so we have a stale mate. Well, there is probably a somewhat large portion of people, who simply don't care. And most people, who do care, wouldn't be hurt by changing the policy (other than their feelings, because they couldn't enforce their ideals). However, people are actually hurt by not changing it, as others and I pointed out. The policies of a worldwide community platform can be based on certain ideals, but they shouldn't enforce them, because those don't work everywhere. They should be as friendly as possible to every potential member. In my opinion the policy should be changed to: We encourage using real names as user names, but if you have specific reasons not to do so, you can use a pseudonym. Greets, Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
