Re: [Haskell-cafe] debugging memory corruption
Thanks for the response. On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Alexander Kjeldaas alexander.kjeld...@gmail.com wrote: What I've mostly done in similar circumstances (jni) 1. Create an interface (virtual functions or template) for the FFI in C++ that covers everything you use. Then create one test implementation and one real implementation. The test implementation must allocate resources whenever the real FFI does so. Doing memory allocation works. This makes it possible to test all your FFI in C++ using valgrind. If I understand correctly, this sounds like what I was talking about, i.e. to stub out the C++ side and drive that from haskell to try to repro. That way I don't have to have windows popping up and do the simulation at the level of mouse clicks. The danger is that it turns out to be lots of work to implement, but still somehow doesn't reproduce the problem. That could happen if the bug is in C++, but only turns up during manual manipulation. Or maybe you're talking about the other way around, stub out the haskell and replace it with C++ and then run that in valgrind? That seems unlikely to be helpful, because if the bug is in the haskell FFI code then rewriting that all in C++ is just going to replace it with possibly also buggy C++ code. It seems to me like valgrind just plain doesn't work for haskell, maybe because the ghc runtime uses its own allocator? So if the bug is in haskell I can't find it with valgrind. If the bug is in C++, well, I already have a pure C++ version (that talks to the C++ interface in a very simplistic way), and it can run under valgrind, which doesn't turn up any out of bounds errors. 2. Add tracing support to the real implementation and replay support to the test implementation. I'm not sure this would work, since the whole thing is that the bug is nondeterministic. I feel like the only way to get it to come out is to do a bunch of random stuff for a period of time. It's likely that whether it happens or not depends on the memory layout for that particular run, and as far as I know you can't make that consistent. Or can you? 3. Upload to Hackage. Is the suggestion that people who love debugging hard problems will swarm out of the woodwork and help me find the problem? I should be so lucky :) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] debugging memory corruption
Ever since upgrading to 7.6.1 I regularly get panics like this: seq: internal error: evacuate: strange closure type -1958168540 (GHC version 7.6.1 for x86_64_apple_darwin) Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug I've seen some variations, but basically I think it just means someone is corrupting memory and it goes unnoticed until the GC trips over it. This happens infrequently (maybe once in 15m, very roughly, it's extremely inconsistent) in non-optimized code, and frequently (maybe once in 5m) in optimized code. This only happens during interactive use, not during testing or profiling. I had a problem like this once before, and it took a very long time to track down. And in fact, I never really tracked it down, I just got a test that could semi-reliably reproduce it, and then by trial and error discovered that if I changed the alignment of a particular Storable instance from 1 to 4, the problem stopped happening (and 1 should have been correct, it was a struct of chars). Not exactly a satisfying solution, and now I'm thinking all I did was make ghc 6 stop manifesting it, and with 7 it's back again. I'm most suspicious of the FFI usage since it's easy to corrupt memory in C++ and even easier to write a bogus Storable instance that does the same, but I really have no idea what or where. My first thought was to start cutting out portions (especially FFI-using portions) to try to isolate it, but it's slow going because it can sometimes take quite a while to the bug to come out again. My second thought was that I need a more automated way to reproduce it, but it's nontrivial because it only comes up when I'm using the interactive GUI parts, which are also incidentally a big chunk of FFI. And even if I do get a repro, as I did before, it just means I can more quickly poke randomly at things hoping they change it, but even if I can get it to stop happening it doesn't mean I understood it, or even really fixed it. This is also the kind of bug (well, it was last time), which is highly dependent on the code, so add one print and it stops happening. I have a sort of complicated scheme where I pass a wrapped haskell function callback along with a wrapped freeHaskellFunPtr to free the last one, along with itself, maybe it's something to do with that. Anyone out there with ideas or advice on how to track down this kind of bug? My next thought is to try to automate the GUI parts, or maybe just the FFI part, so I can write a program to randomly fuss with it until it crashes. I've also tried valgrind, but it doesn't report anything suspicious. But it also doesn't seem to work on FFI Storable corruption, I've tried intentionally inserting a bad poke and valgrind still won't report it. Thanks in advance for any insight! Actually, there's a whole other discussion which has been nagging at me for a while, though another thread would be more appropriate. But in short it's that it feels like hsc2hs is just too low level, and too error-prone. It's tempting to use because it comes with ghc, but it seems bad to tell people haskell is a safe language, but as soon as you want to talk to C you're writing totally unchecked pokes and peeks. Maybe I should go evaluate the alternatives like c2hs, or maybe safety features can added to hsc2hs. Wouldn't it be nice to have ghc come with a high level and safe FFI language? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] debugging memory corruption
What I've mostly done in similar circumstances (jni) 1. Create an interface (virtual functions or template) for the FFI in C++ that covers everything you use. Then create one test implementation and one real implementation. The test implementation must allocate resources whenever the real FFI does so. Doing memory allocation works. This makes it possible to test all your FFI in C++ using valgrind. 2. Add tracing support to the real implementation and replay support to the test implementation. 3. Upload to Hackage. Alexander On Dec 1, 2012 5:06 PM, Evan Laforge qdun...@gmail.com wrote: Ever since upgrading to 7.6.1 I regularly get panics like this: seq: internal error: evacuate: strange closure type -1958168540 (GHC version 7.6.1 for x86_64_apple_darwin) Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug I've seen some variations, but basically I think it just means someone is corrupting memory and it goes unnoticed until the GC trips over it. This happens infrequently (maybe once in 15m, very roughly, it's extremely inconsistent) in non-optimized code, and frequently (maybe once in 5m) in optimized code. This only happens during interactive use, not during testing or profiling. I had a problem like this once before, and it took a very long time to track down. And in fact, I never really tracked it down, I just got a test that could semi-reliably reproduce it, and then by trial and error discovered that if I changed the alignment of a particular Storable instance from 1 to 4, the problem stopped happening (and 1 should have been correct, it was a struct of chars). Not exactly a satisfying solution, and now I'm thinking all I did was make ghc 6 stop manifesting it, and with 7 it's back again. I'm most suspicious of the FFI usage since it's easy to corrupt memory in C++ and even easier to write a bogus Storable instance that does the same, but I really have no idea what or where. My first thought was to start cutting out portions (especially FFI-using portions) to try to isolate it, but it's slow going because it can sometimes take quite a while to the bug to come out again. My second thought was that I need a more automated way to reproduce it, but it's nontrivial because it only comes up when I'm using the interactive GUI parts, which are also incidentally a big chunk of FFI. And even if I do get a repro, as I did before, it just means I can more quickly poke randomly at things hoping they change it, but even if I can get it to stop happening it doesn't mean I understood it, or even really fixed it. This is also the kind of bug (well, it was last time), which is highly dependent on the code, so add one print and it stops happening. I have a sort of complicated scheme where I pass a wrapped haskell function callback along with a wrapped freeHaskellFunPtr to free the last one, along with itself, maybe it's something to do with that. Anyone out there with ideas or advice on how to track down this kind of bug? My next thought is to try to automate the GUI parts, or maybe just the FFI part, so I can write a program to randomly fuss with it until it crashes. I've also tried valgrind, but it doesn't report anything suspicious. But it also doesn't seem to work on FFI Storable corruption, I've tried intentionally inserting a bad poke and valgrind still won't report it. Thanks in advance for any insight! Actually, there's a whole other discussion which has been nagging at me for a while, though another thread would be more appropriate. But in short it's that it feels like hsc2hs is just too low level, and too error-prone. It's tempting to use because it comes with ghc, but it seems bad to tell people haskell is a safe language, but as soon as you want to talk to C you're writing totally unchecked pokes and peeks. Maybe I should go evaluate the alternatives like c2hs, or maybe safety features can added to hsc2hs. Wouldn't it be nice to have ghc come with a high level and safe FFI language? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
