[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Nested guards?

2007-12-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 6. Dezember 2007 10:03 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones: [redirecting to Haskell Cafe] | It is clear that this situation must not stay this way. Bit by bit, | disciples of Perl and Python discover Haskell and demand that Haskell | will be plastered with syntactic sugar until the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Nested guards?

2007-12-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 6. Dezember 2007 22:47 schrieb Aaron Denney: On 2007-12-06, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: list comprehensions deal with specific operations (map, filter, etc.) of a specific type ([]). Ah, so we should bring back monad comprehensions? No, we already have do

Re: [Haskell-cafe] IO is a bad example for Monads

2007-12-10 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 19:44 schrieb Dan Piponi: […] Maybe hardened Haskell programmers don't notice these things, but there's a wall that goes up when Haskell is presented to non-functional programmers. There are significant barriers for them to cross (some of them imaginary): That’s

Re: [Haskell-cafe] IO is a bad example for Monads

2007-12-10 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 20:00 schrieb Henning Thielemann: […] I raise my question once again: Must Haskell's tutorials be tailored to impatient programmers? Does Haskell need quickdirty hackers? Who want Haskell to be plastered with syntactic sugar? ;-) ;-) Best wishes, Wolfgang

Re: [Haskell-cafe] IO is a bad example for Monads

2007-12-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 11. Dezember 2007 14:46 schrieb Hans van Thiel: On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 20:00 +0100, Henning Thielemann wrote: [snip] I raise my question once again: Must Haskell's tutorials be tailored to impatient programmers? Does Haskell need quickdirty hackers? IMO yes, because it exposes

Re: [Haskell-cafe] New slogan for haskell.org

2007-12-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 12. Dezember 2007 03:12 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: FWIW to the discussion about changing the main page, I was reading the CUFP paper and I saw some germane comments (and the writer is apparently one Noel Welsh, whose name I don't see in the thread); the context is a discussion (pg

Re: [Haskell-cafe] IO is a bad example for Monads

2007-12-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 11. Dezember 2007 18:34 schrieb Tim Newsham: […] Why is it that every time the topic of teaching basic concepts in an easier way comes up there are always two or three replies that say should we bother? lets filter out the idiots? I think that two different things are mixed in

Re: [Haskell-cafe] JOB OFFER / Haskell for commercial projects?

2007-12-15 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 15. Dezember 2007 13:05 schrieb Paul Johnson: […] The GHC licence is basically a BSD with attribution. Compiled programs include the run-time, so you would just have to include the copyright notice somewhere in your documentation. This would also apply to those libraries that are

Re: [Haskell-cafe] OOP'er with (hopefully) trivial questions.....

2007-12-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 17. Dezember 2007 13:04 schrieb Jed Brown: […] When your type only has one constructor, newtype is preferred over data, but they are semantically equivalent. They are *not* semantically equivalent, as has already been said more or less. data adds an extra level of indirection.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] OOP'er with (hopefully) trivial questions.....

2007-12-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 17. Dezember 2007 19:26 schrieb Tim Chevalier: On 12/17/07, Evan Laforge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure there's a trivial explanation for this, but here's something that I've always kind of wondered about: Given a single constructor type like data X = X A B C can't that be

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Is StateT what I need?

2007-12-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 17. Dezember 2007 21:06 schrieb ChrisK: Andre Nathan wrote: Hello (Newbie question ahead : I tried this for insertProc, but it obviously doesn't work... what would be the correct way to do this? insertProc :: Pid - StateT PsMap IO PsInfo insertProc pid = do proc -

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 16:34 schrieb Cristian Baboi: I'll have to trust you, because I cannot test it. let x=(1:x); y=(1:y) in x==y . I also cannot test this: let x=(1:x); y=1:1:y in x==y In these examples, x and y denote the same value but the result of x == y is _|_

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 16:57 schrieb Cristian Baboi: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:52:19 +0200, Jonathan Cast Which is why Haskell treats IO as a domain specific language. Good to know. I intended to use Haskell for algorithms, but it seems it is not so good at them. Why is I/O needed

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 15:53 schrieb Cristian Baboi: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:50:10 +0200, Lennart Augustsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Absolutly. Every expression in Haskell denotes a value. Now, we've not agreed what value means, but to me it is a value. :) It is one value, or

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-28 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2007 07:49 schrieben Sie: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:19:47 +0200, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 16:34 schrieb Cristian Baboi: I'll have to trust you, because I cannot test it. let x=(1:x); y=(1:y) in x==y . I also

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-28 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2007 07:49 schrieben Sie: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:14:53 +0200, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 15:53 schrieb Cristian Baboi: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:50:10 +0200, Lennart Augustsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Absolutly

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-28 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2007 08:12 schrieb Cristian Baboi: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:35:54 +0200, Jonathan Cast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only on Von Neuman machines. Haskell implementations are not required to run on Von Neuman machines. That's why the language is called functional.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Wikipedia on first-class object

2007-12-29 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 29. Dezember 2007 20:15 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: Hello Tim, Saturday, December 29, 2007, 10:07:15 PM, you wrote: ok, please compute 2^2^30 before continuing discussion. it seems that Well, that's why I recommended the Dennett essay. The difference between I'm too bored and I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: US Homeland Security program language security risks

2008-01-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 6. Januar 2008 20:04 schrieb Miguel Mitrofanov: That's an interesting task: Design a non-touring complete, restricted language in which every expression is decidable, without making the language unusable for usual programming problems. Well, I did something like that a few

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Please allow beginners to vocalize code. = :: - - -

2008-01-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 8. Januar 2008 21:36 schrieb Richard Kelsall: Now supposing you were on the phone to a Haskell programmer and you wanted to say this f :: Int - Int I imagine you might say f maps Int to Int or function f has type Int to Int. Both symbols have been translated directly to words.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Problems with Unicode Symbols as Infix Function Names in Propositional Calculus Haskell DSL

2008-01-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 9. Januar 2008 18:34 schrieb Cetin Sert: Neither appending {-# OPTIONS_GHC -fglasgow-exts -xunicodesyntax #-} First, I think, you have to use -XUnicodeSyntax (as Don said), and not -xunicodesyntax. Second, -XUnicodeSyntax only enables alternative notation for certain built-in

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Problems with Unicode Symbols as Infix Function Names in Propositional Calculus Haskell DSL

2008-01-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 9. Januar 2008 18:24 schrieb Felipe Lessa: […] But for the others, what is wrong with e.g. (\/), (/\), (--) and (-)? These are not the true symbols. They look ugly compared to the real ones. Nice typography is a great thing! You could write things like 'a /\ b -- c'. With

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 08:11 schrieb Lennart Augustsson: Some people seem to think that == is an equality predicate. This is a big source of confusion for them; until they realize that == is just another function returning Bool they will make claims like [1..]==[1..] having an unnatural

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 11:33 schrieben Sie: Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However, the fact that (0 / 0) == (0 / 0) yields False is quite shocking. It doesn’t adhere to any meaningful axiom set for Eq. Tough luck, but that's how floating point works, and what

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 10:54 schrieb Wilhelm B. Kloke: Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: However, the fact that (0 / 0) == (0 / 0) yields False is quite shocking. It doesn?t adhere to any meaningful axiom set for Eq. So I think that this behavior should be changed. Think

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Why purely in haskell?

2008-01-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 13:21 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ketil Malde: Wolfgang Jeltsch: However, the fact that (0 / 0) == (0 / 0) yields False is quite shocking. It doesn’t adhere to any meaningful axiom set for Eq. Tough luck, but that's how floating point works, and what

[Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Hello, some time ago, it was pointed out that generalized newtype deriving could be used to circumvent module borders. Now, I found out that generalized newtype deriving can even be used to define functions that would be impossible to define otherwise. To me, this is surprising since I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 8. März 2010 22:45:19 schrieb Wolfgang Jeltsch: Hello, some time ago, it was pointed out that generalized newtype deriving could be used to circumvent module borders. Now, I found out that generalized newtype deriving can even be used to define functions that would be impossible

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell course, training

2010-03-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 8. März 2010 23:17:56 schrieb Henning Thielemann: On Sun, 7 Mar 2010, G?nther Schmidt wrote: I think I've reached the point where I need some tutoring, so provided I've got money for travel and course fees, and time, where do I get it? I'm not a student so some courses aren't

Re: [Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 9. März 2010 07:24:35 schrieb Steffen Schuldenzucker: On 03/08/2010 10:45 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: The point is, of course, that such conversions are not only possible for binary operations but for arbitrary values and that these conversions are done by a single generic

Re: [Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 9. März 2010 11:53:14 schrieben Sie: Isn't this just an extension of the notion that multi-parameter typeclasses without functional dependencies or type families are dangerous and allow for type-naughtiness? Multi-parameter typeclasses are dangerous? It’s the first time I hear

Re: [Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 9. März 2010 15:54:16 schrieb Jan-Willem Maessen: On Mar 9, 2010, at 5:53 AM, Max Cantor wrote: Isn't this just an extension of the notion that multi-parameter typeclasses without functional dependencies or type families are dangerous and allow for type-naughtiness? I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-12 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 11. März 2010 00:37:18 schrieb wren ng thornton: Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Hello, some time ago, it was pointed out that generalized newtype deriving could be used to circumvent module borders. Now, I found out that generalized newtype deriving can even be used to define

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell and GUI

2008-01-17 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 15. Januar 2008 20:42 schrieb Conal Elliott: If you can get wxHaskell installed working, you could try Phooey and/or TV. Both are described on the Haskell wiki and available via darcs and Hackage. And they have the interesting property of being a functional approach to GUI

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Newbie question

2008-01-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 21. Januar 2008 21:55 schrieb Derek Elkins: On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 22:36 +0100, Peter Verswyvelen wrote: Hey, I knew about the forall (I use that to represent OO style collections, very handy), but not about the exists. Thanks. But GHC 6.8.2 (with -fglasgow-exts) does not seem to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Draft chapters of Real World Haskell now publicly available

2008-01-24 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 23. Januar 2008 10:53 schrieben Sie: Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Covering reactive programming would indeed be interesting. I want to add that there is no single way for doing reactive programming in Haskell. There is Conal’s stuff, there is Yampa and there is “my” stuff

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Why functional programming matters

2008-01-25 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 25. Januar 2008 03:35 schrieb Conal Elliott: […] See http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Reactive and http://haskell.org/yampa/ . Or better http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Functional_Reactive_Programming which has come into existence recently. […] Best wishes, Wolfgang

Re: [Haskell-cafe] anybody can tell me the pronuncation of haskell?

2008-01-29 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 29. Januar 2008 02:25 schrieb Tim Chevalier: On 1/28/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, unless you are French. Then you don't pronounce H. The remaining letters are pronounced according to the Règlements de l'Académie. Fair enough. I wouldn't want to be

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-01-31 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2008 12:02 schrieb Alfonso Acosta: Hi, The EDSL implementation (system design) I'm working on would really benefit from an implementation of fixed-sized vectors. I thought this would be a generally desired ADT but it turned out I wasn't able to find an

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-01-31 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2008 18:30 schrieb Dominic Steinitz: Look at http://sneezy.cs.nott.ac.uk/fun/feb-07/jeremy-slides.pdf This is essentially what I had in mind. While Oleg’s implementation needs a “thrusted core”, the GADT solution doesn’t. It would be interesting to combine GADTs

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-01-31 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2008 15:15 schrieben Sie: […] I think we should base our implementation on Oleg's (for which we need his permission). Do you know whether Oleg has released his code under an open source license? If he had, we wouldn’t need his permission. I’m not sure whether we

Fwd: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-01-31 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Hello Ryan, I hope, it’s okay to forward your message to the list: Date: Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 01:41 From: Ryan Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] This representation is not exactly the same when you include _|_. For example: data None -- only

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-01 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 05:11 schrieben Sie: Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Well, the representation (D1,D2,D9) might be considered more readable. It has the disadvantage of a fixed maximum size for the numbers. Which takes me to a point I had already considered some time ago: Wouldn’t

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-01 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 13:09 schrieben Sie: What about FixedVector for the vector library and DecTypArith (maybe too long) or DecTypes for the type-level decimal arithmetic library? Actually it would maybe be better to create common high-level interface that could include unary, binary

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-01 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 13:00 schrieb Alfonso Acosta: On Jan 31, 2008 11:35 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2008 18:30 schrieb Dominic Steinitz: Look at http://sneezy.cs.nott.ac.uk/fun/feb-07/jeremy-slides.pdf This is essentially what I

module hierarchy (Re: [Haskell-cafe] parsec3 pre-release [important note])

2008-02-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 2. Februar 2008 05:53 schrieb Derek Elkins: I forgot to mention that the Text.Parsec modules should be preferred to the Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec modules as the Haddock documentation reveals. I would have prefered to shorten ParserCombinators to Parsing and leave Parsec under

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 4. Februar 2008 13:22 schrieben Sie: On Feb 4, 2008 12:36 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: […] I don't still know how many people would be interested in using the type-level library so, again, I think it won't hurt to include the TH-generated aliases and then change it if some non-GHC

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 2. Februar 2008 14:54 schrieben Sie: On Feb 1, 2008 10:32 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Am Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 13:00 schrieb Alfonso Acosta: […] To make it friendlier for the end user I thought about defining aliases for lets say the first 1 numbers using Template

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 4. Februar 2008 20:44 schrieben Sie: I'll host the project in community.haskell.org, do you have an account there? Now, I haven't. :-( Well, you can request one at http://community.haskell.org/admin/account_request.html if you want Otherwise I'll take the maintainer role.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] classes for data structures

2008-02-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008 16:12 schrieb Jules Bean: And indeed there *will* be a Monad, if there is a sensible way of defining concat :: b (b a) - b a, which there probably is. Not with sets. “concat” on Set would have type Ord a = Set (Set a) - Set a instead of Set (Set a) - Set

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Signature for non-empty filter

2008-02-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008 18:39 schrieb Bulat Ziganshin: […] this means that answer to original question - one can ensure that argument for filter is non-terminating function only if these functions are written using some special notation which doesn't allow to write arbitrary

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-07 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 02:47 schrieb Alfonso Acosta: The other library I use for type-level programming is HList. It has type-level booleans already so you might what to take a look at it if you're not already familiar with it. Thanks I'll have a look at it. I have to admit that I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Draft chapters of Real World Haskell now publicly available

2008-02-07 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Hello Peter, an answer to an “old” e-mail (from January 25). Sorry for not answering earlier. Am Freitag, 25. Januar 2008 00:23 schrieben Sie: Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Indeed. A functional approach to GUIs is nice but at the moment we don’t have anything that is suitable for solving real

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Draft chapters of Real World Haskell now publicly available

2008-02-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 18:33 schrieben Sie: Interesting. Thanks for the reply. It might be nice to have some performance benchmarks for all these experimental systems, so we can compare them. I think, the most important thing is the asymptotical time behavior, e.g., whether the time

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-08 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 16:31 schrieben Sie: On Feb 7, 2008 4:16 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: […] You seem to write 12 as 1 :+ 2 instead of () :+ 1 :+ 2. But I think, the latter representation should probably be prefered. With it, :+ always has a number as its

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-09 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 8. Februar 2008 17:14 schrieb Stefan Monnier: You seem to write 12 as 1 :+ 2 instead of () :+ 1 :+ 2. But I think, the latter representation should probably be prefered. With it, :+ always has a number as its left argument and a digit as its right. Without the () :+ we

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-10 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 10. Februar 2008 05:14 schrieben Sie: […] Now some functions which I wasn't able to define Concat function. This would be the naive implementation, but it fails to compile. (+) :: Add s1 s2 s3 = FSVec s1 a - FSVec s2 a - FSVec s3 a NullV + ys = ys (x:xs) + ys = x : (xs +

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-10 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 9. Februar 2008 23:33 schrieben Sie: On Feb 8, 2008 4:10 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 16:31 schrieben Sie: Even if () would be preferred from the programmers point of view (I'm not sure how much we could reduce the number

Re: [Haskell-cafe] A question about monad laws

2008-02-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 14:57 schrieb Michael Reid: Now it should be easier to see that this is simply associativity. It's easy enough to violate, if you want to - but I don't have any nice simple examples to hand. I have recently been reading a tutorial or paper where a Monad that

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Weekly News - February 10, 2008

2008-02-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 02:09 schrieb Don Stewart: […] * Imlib 0.1.1. Uploaded by Cale Gibbard. [120]Imlib: Added by CaleGibbard, Sun Jan 13 22:26:59 PST 2008.. […] * haddock 2.0.0.0. Uploaded by David Waern. [147]haddock: Added by DavidWaern […] What's the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: A question about monad laws

2008-02-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 16:35 schrieb Andrew Butterfield: This is precisely Jerzy's point - you can have many mathematical laws as you like but there is no guarantee that a programming languages implementation will satisfy them. But people writing instances of type classes should take care

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-11 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 18:17 schrieben Sie: […] As suggested by the pointer you provided, I redefined FSVec and tailV using a transformating of Succ into a type synonym family (see the end of this mail for its full definition) but it didn't help. Be careful! Type family support is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-12 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 21:44 schrieben Sie: Alfonso Acosta wrote: So type-level + parametrized-data is my vote. But don't let's spend too much time discussing the name. ;-) Fair enough. type-level + parameterized-data it is then (unless someone else has a better suggestion). I'm

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2008 03:23 schrieben Sie: To directly answer Wolfgang's question: parameterized is the more common. It is more correct only insofar as it is the more common. So we should “parameterized” for the package name. Best wishes, Wolfgang

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Arrow combinator names

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 18. Februar 2008 04:37 schrieb Tom Davies: Are there generally accepted English language names for the arrow combinators? compose? pair? etc... I call “sequence”. Best wishes, Wolfgang ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list

[Haskell-cafe] Re: a help for install

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 18. Februar 2008 19:46 schrieb Carlos Gomez A.: hi, my name is carlos I need information for correct installor what are dependencies on ghc ? I have a Debian System. Always use your distribution’s packages until they aren’t any or there is good reason not to do so. Try

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Where does ~ come from?

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 14:41 schrieb Neil Mitchell: Hi 2) You would hope there is a quick way to search those symbols. But most search engines do not treate symbols friendly, often just ignore them. I typed ~ in Hoogle, it also returned nothing. 3) If the module defining the symbol

Re: [Haskell-cafe] build-depends contraints in a .cabal file

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 19. Februar 2008 03:05 schrieb Antoine Latter: Can I specify an equality constraint in the build-depends field of a .cabal file? This would say that I want one specific version (because all the rest of my packages are compiled against that version and I'm getting type-checking

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Doubting Haskell

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 10:12 schrieb Colin Paul Adams: The mnemonics is that Right x is right in the sense of correct. So, the error case has to be Left err . As I said, this is sinister (i.e. regarding left-handed people as evil). I hardly can believe that you mean this seriously. Do

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Arrows: definition of pure arr

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 14:32 schrieb Peter Verswyvelen: I don't get why the name isn't arrow instead of arr... Arr reminds me of pirates, arrrhh ;-) I guess first was chosen because fst was already taken, but then it would be logical to choose arrow instead of arr ;-) arr has two

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Where does ~ come from?

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 19. Februar 2008 18:26 schrieben Sie: […] However, I was told this: ~ a b is a ~ b, but if I write c a b and wish the effect of a `c` b. This would not work. ~ as an infix operator has a special place in GHC. It is not just a type variable. Sorry, but I don’t understand fully

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 19. Februar 2008 21:44 schrieben Sie: * Support of type-level Booleans (Wolfgang?) Attached is just a quickly hacked Boolean module. Nothing very special. I’d be happy if you could prettify this (choose better names, add documentation, etc.). Thanks for any effort. Best

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Arrows: definition of pure arr

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 19. Februar 2008 17:04 schrieben Sie: PS: Wolfgang also seems to use nice names in Grapefruit for his types, e.g. act :: PlainCircuit (IO output) output  createPlainCircuit :: PlainCircuit input output - input - IO (output,IO ()) instead of act :: PlainCircuit (IO a) a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Arrows: definition of pure arr

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 19. Februar 2008 19:37 schrieb Peter Verswyvelen: Exactly. And that must be one of the reasons the Java designers said no to operator overloading? That kind of programmers just don't like operators I guess. But we do :-) Although I would prefer nice math symbols and layout

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 20. Februar 2008 00:39 schrieben Sie: Why are the value-level reflecting functionsimplemented as type-class methods? It makes the code more verbose and I don't see any advantage compared to simply defining a function per class. Let me show you an example: This is your

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-02-20 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 20. Februar 2008 09:20 schrieben Sie: OK I'll include the module after I change the things mentioned. BTW, I finally have an initial version of the parameterized-data package: Darcs repository: http://code.haskell.org/parameterized-data Haddock documentation:

Re: [Haskell-cafe] A little toy of Haskell Trivia

2008-02-20 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 20. Februar 2008 22:22 schrieb Steve Lihn: I proudly announce a little toy that lists the frequency of modules being imported by other modules. Do you know Control.Monad is the most frequently imported module? I did not! This doesn’t surprise me very much. What surprises me more

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Repeated function application

2008-02-21 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 21. Februar 2008 16:58 schrieb Ben Butler-Cole: Hello I was surprised to be unable to find anything like this in the standard libraries: times :: (a - a) - Int - (a - a) times f 0 = id times f n = f . (times f (n-1)) times f n = (!! n) . iterate f […] Best wishes,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Markup bug in HaskellWiki

2008-03-04 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Dienstag, 4. März 2008 16:10 schrieb Dougal Stanton: […] There's a file called, IIRC, haskell.php with a large list of keywords. Two of them, 'unzip' and 'unzip3' appear twice. Delete one of each and it all works fine again. Why do they appear at all? They are not keywords. Best wishes,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] A question about monad laws

2008-03-13 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 12. März 2008 00:53 schrieb askyle: […] So if floating point (==) doesn't correspond with numeric equality, it's not FP's fault, but ours for expecting it to do! No, I think, it’s the Prelude’s fault to define (==) as “floating point equality”. We should us a different

Re: [Haskell-cafe] A question about monad laws

2008-03-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 13. März 2008 21:10 schrieben Sie: Not to be picky, but where did you hear that (==) established an equivalence relation? I think that’s the way it should be according to most Haskeller’s opinion. It might be true that the Haskell 98 report doesn’t say so but I think that many

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-03-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 2. Februar 2008 14:54 schrieben Sie: On Feb 1, 2008 10:32 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Am Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 13:00 schrieb Alfonso Acosta: […] To make it friendlier for the end user I thought about defining aliases for lets say the first 1 numbers using Template

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Implementing fixed-sized vectors (using datatype algebra?)

2008-03-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 14. März 2008 17:46 schrieben Sie: […] I think that removing aliases completely is not a good idea. How about generating much lower aliases for decimals (lets say until 1000), I don’t think, this is a good idea. Like nobody will need an alias for 8247, nobody will need an alias

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Type system

2008-03-14 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 14. März 2008 19:50 schrieb Andrew Coppin: […] Is it because Haskell is used by more PhDs? Is it because Haskell actually allows you to implement constructs that are impossible in other languages? Is it because Haskell really provides greater type safety? Is it something else?

[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] ANN: The Disciplined Disciple Compiler - alpha 1

2008-03-20 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 20. März 2008 07:09 schrieb Ben Lippmeier: Hi All, I'm pleased to announce the initial alpha release of the Disciplined Disciple Compiler (DDC). Disciple is an explicitly lazy dialect of Haskell which includes: - first class destructive update of arbitrary data. -

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Equality constraints in type families

2008-03-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 03:07 schrieb Hugo Pacheco: The extra syntax has its advantages (more local information) and disadvantages (more clutter). We weren't convinced that we need the extra syntax, so left it out for the moment. However, this is something that can always be changed if

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Equality constraints in type families

2008-03-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 27. März 2008 22:43 schrieb Wolfgang Jeltsch: Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 03:07 schrieb Hugo Pacheco: The extra syntax has its advantages (more local information) and disadvantages (more clutter). We weren't convinced that we need the extra syntax, so left it out

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Monad instance for Data.Set, again

2008-03-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Montag, 24. März 2008 20:47 schrieb Henning Thielemann: […] Here is another approach that looks tempting, but unfortunately does not work, and I wonder whether this can be made working. module RestrictedMonad where import Data.Set(Set) import qualified Data.Set as Set class

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Equality constraints in type families

2008-03-27 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 27. März 2008 23:12 schrieben Sie: The reason for the braces in type families is because type indices are treated differently than normal parameters. I don't think this should be adopted for type synonyms either. Cheers, hugo In a way, there is also different treatment in the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Functional dependencies with Type Classes

2008-03-28 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 28. März 2008 02:12 schrieb Henning Günther: Hi, suppose there are two (identical) classes: class Res a b | a - b where getRes :: a - b and class Res2 t where type Member t getRes2 :: t - Member t It is easy to automatically make every instance of Res2 an

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Sound typeable via type families?

2008-03-28 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 28. März 2008 05:21 schrieb Dan Doel: […] However, obviously, this depends on overlapping instances (if there's some other way, I'd be happy to know; if type inequality contexts are available, I wasn't able to find them), and I've heard that type families don't play well with

Re: [Haskell-cafe] I/O without monads, using an event loop

2008-05-30 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 30. Mai 2008 16:09 schrieb Robin Green: […] I'm primarily interested in embedded system and desktop UIs, Than you should take a look at http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/FRP. […] Best wishes, Wolfgang ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Damnit, we need a CPAN.

2008-05-30 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 29. Mai 2008 17:38 schrieb Achim Schneider: […] Rationale: We need […] grapefruit authors that commit to hackage Our reason to not commtting Grapefruit to Hackage so far was that this would mean making an official release and we thought that Grapefruit is not yet ready for

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Damnit, we need a CPAN.

2008-05-30 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 29. Mai 2008 17:47 schrieb Neil Mitchell: […] grapefruit authors that commit to hackage Or someone to help show the grapefruit authors the light. I helped put smallcheck on hackage, others have done other packages. Perhaps you could do grapefruit? What do you mean with

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Damnit, we need a CPAN.

2008-06-02 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Freitag, 30. Mai 2008 22:09 schrieb Achim Schneider: […] I'm generally very interested in declarative GUI programming, but not nearly enough acquainted with the whole topic to judge one project's approach over the other. I just followed standard scientific evaluation technique to select

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Design your modules for qualified import

2008-06-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 5. Juni 2008 17:19 schrieb Johan Tibell: […] 2. It's the default. You have to add qualified to all your imports to make them qualified. In most language imports are qualified by default. I think the latter would have been a better choice but we have to live with the current

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Design your modules for qualified import

2008-06-16 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 15. Juni 2008 23:17 schrieb Duncan Coutts: […] If we get a proper way to export a non-flat namespace then Gtk2Hs will certainly switch to using it. Using 'buttonBlah' is horrible but there is currently nothing better. So is there anyone who wants to file a feature request? […]

Re: [Haskell-cafe] grapefruit on windows or osX

2010-02-23 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Sonntag, 21. Februar 2010 21:57:45 schrieb gladst...@gladstein.com: I'm unable to get grapefruit going on osx or windows because (I think) I can't get the underlying GTK installed. Hi, thank you for giving Grapefruit a try. Yes, you are most likely right that Gtk2Hs is the stumbling block.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] GPL answers from the SFLC (WAS: Re: ANN: hakyll-0.1)

2010-03-05 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Donnerstag, 4. März 2010 18:57:03 schrieb MightyByte: Interesting. It seems to me that the only solution for the BSD-oriented haskell community is to practically boycott GPL'd libraries. From what I understand, this is exactly what the LGPL is for. I've known the basic idea behind the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: GPL answers from the SFLC (WAS: Re: ANN: hakyll-0.1)

2010-03-06 Thread Wolfgang Jeltsch
Am Samstag, 6. März 2010 03:45:02 schrieb Maciej Piechotka: PS. There is also GPL-with-linking-exception which allows linking etc. but does not require relinking capability. I'd believe that in such case the cross-module inlining is not a problem since it is 'linking' for compiler. The term

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