Re: [Haskell] The speed, size and dependability of programming languages

2009-06-02 Thread Paul Johnson
Lyle Kopnicky wrote: I think it's a combination of 1) the expressiveness measure is too simplistic, measuring number of lines alone, or counting comments, and 2) the problem set is skewed toward number-crunching, which is not (say) Prolog's strong suit. Also there is a strong tendency to

Re: [Haskell] The speed, size and dependability of programming languages

2009-06-02 Thread Lyle Kopnicky
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Paul Johnson p...@cogito.org.uk wrote: Lyle Kopnicky wrote: I think it's a combination of 1) the expressiveness measure is too simplistic, measuring number of lines alone, or counting comments, and 2) the problem set is skewed toward number-crunching, which

Re: [Haskell] The speed, size and dependability of programming languages

2009-06-01 Thread Lyle Kopnicky
Thanks for the link. I find the expressiveness results odd. How can SML/NJ be among the least expressive languages, while MLTON and OCAML are among the most expressive? How is Smalltalk less expressive than Java? Why are Prolog and Mercury among the least expressive? I think it's a combination of

Re: [Haskell] The speed, size and dependability of programming languages

2009-06-01 Thread Don Stewart
lists: I think it's a combination of 1) the expressiveness measure is too simplistic, measuring number of lines alone, or counting comments It isn't measuring lines of code, it is measuring the Gzip compression Also, there's a few bogons in the data (it was graphed against 2005-6 results, and

Re: [Haskell] The speed, size and dependability of programming languages

2009-06-01 Thread Gwern Branwen
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Lyle Kopnicky li...@qseep.net wrote: Why are Prolog and Mercury among the least expressive? Well, I don't know about SML/NJ, since I don't see anything obviously wrong at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=alllang=smlnjlang2=ghcbox=1 But

Re: [Haskell] The speed, size and dependability of programming languages

2009-06-01 Thread Don Stewart
gwern0: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Lyle Kopnicky li...@qseep.net wrote: Why are Prolog and Mercury among the least expressive? Well, I don't know about SML/NJ, since I don't see anything obviously wrong at

Re: [Haskell] The speed, size and dependability of programming languages

2009-06-01 Thread Casey Hawthorne
Instead of GZip metrics for code size, maybe a good measure of imperative language code size would be the cyclomatic complexity metric. It would also be interesting to see results for Fortran, Java, C++, etc. across a range of old and newer compilers. Can one measure cyclomatic complexity for