Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
I've looked into both Hawkular and Dropwizard. Personally I found neither of them particularly easy to play with. Did you have something specific in mind besides what we already collect with the Statistics API? As Vlad mentioned, we can already do this. On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 5:22 PM Sanne Grinovero wrote: > Thanks for all comments! > > Agreed to look at MicroProfile and other IO engines. > > Sure we don't want to pull in more dependencies, just allow others to > query Hibernate status over a well-defined API. In case this was to > need some Openshift or MicroProfile specifics I'd code that as a new > module, somewhat like providing a working example, which calls into / > boots Hibernate. > > I don't like to rely exclusively on the orchestration layer to > try/reboot in a loop as the only mechanism - we need to help with > that. > > With a non-trivial amount of inter-dependent services, you'd have the > risk of livelock. Even if it eventually resolves with some lucky > timings, you might end up rebooting the Hibernate SessionFactory - > including the JVM - and several other services. That could easily take > a long time and waste a ton of computing resources if we're not > careful. > > Sanne > > > > On 1 June 2018 at 14:57, Gunnar Morling wrote: > > +1 for looking into the mP health check API. > > > > In fact, I don't even think that Hibernate would have to implement any > sort > > of looping itself. Instead, the orchestration layer would check the > health > > check endpoint and automatically restart the service if it's not in a > > healthy state. That way, the ordering of start up isn't really an issue, > the > > application would be simply restarted as often as needed until the DB is > up. > > > > 2018-06-01 15:44 GMT+02:00 Andrej Golovnin : > >> > >> Hi Sanne, > >> > >> whatever you consider to implement in Hibernate ORM/Search/OMG > >> I think you should use/follow the MicroProfile Health spec [1]. > >> As far as I know WildFly Swarm supports already this spec. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Andrej Golovnin > >> > >> [1] https://github.com/eclipse/microprofile-health/ > >> > >> > On 31. May 2018, at 18:40, Sanne Grinovero > wrote: > >> > > >> > It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing > >> > microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" > >> > easier. > >> > > >> > In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able > >> > to connect to the database and do our usual things. > >> > > >> > This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there > >> > could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an > >> > higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection > >> > APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor > >> > timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. > >> > > >> > Wrote some notes on: > >> > - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 > >> > > >> > Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM > >> > could expose/implement it too for their respective services? > >> > > >> > Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Sanne > >> > ___ > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> ___ > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > > > ___ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
Thanks for all comments! Agreed to look at MicroProfile and other IO engines. Sure we don't want to pull in more dependencies, just allow others to query Hibernate status over a well-defined API. In case this was to need some Openshift or MicroProfile specifics I'd code that as a new module, somewhat like providing a working example, which calls into / boots Hibernate. I don't like to rely exclusively on the orchestration layer to try/reboot in a loop as the only mechanism - we need to help with that. With a non-trivial amount of inter-dependent services, you'd have the risk of livelock. Even if it eventually resolves with some lucky timings, you might end up rebooting the Hibernate SessionFactory - including the JVM - and several other services. That could easily take a long time and waste a ton of computing resources if we're not careful. Sanne On 1 June 2018 at 14:57, Gunnar Morling wrote: > +1 for looking into the mP health check API. > > In fact, I don't even think that Hibernate would have to implement any sort > of looping itself. Instead, the orchestration layer would check the health > check endpoint and automatically restart the service if it's not in a > healthy state. That way, the ordering of start up isn't really an issue, the > application would be simply restarted as often as needed until the DB is up. > > 2018-06-01 15:44 GMT+02:00 Andrej Golovnin : >> >> Hi Sanne, >> >> whatever you consider to implement in Hibernate ORM/Search/OMG >> I think you should use/follow the MicroProfile Health spec [1]. >> As far as I know WildFly Swarm supports already this spec. >> >> Best regards, >> Andrej Golovnin >> >> [1] https://github.com/eclipse/microprofile-health/ >> >> > On 31. May 2018, at 18:40, Sanne Grinovero wrote: >> > >> > It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing >> > microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" >> > easier. >> > >> > In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able >> > to connect to the database and do our usual things. >> > >> > This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there >> > could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an >> > higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection >> > APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor >> > timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. >> > >> > Wrote some notes on: >> > - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 >> > >> > Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM >> > could expose/implement it too for their respective services? >> > >> > Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Sanne >> > ___ >> > hibernate-dev mailing list >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >> >> ___ >> hibernate-dev mailing list >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
+1 for looking into the mP health check API. In fact, I don't even think that Hibernate would have to implement any sort of looping itself. Instead, the orchestration layer would check the health check endpoint and automatically restart the service if it's not in a healthy state. That way, the ordering of start up isn't really an issue, the application would be simply restarted as often as needed until the DB is up. 2018-06-01 15:44 GMT+02:00 Andrej Golovnin : > Hi Sanne, > > whatever you consider to implement in Hibernate ORM/Search/OMG > I think you should use/follow the MicroProfile Health spec [1]. > As far as I know WildFly Swarm supports already this spec. > > Best regards, > Andrej Golovnin > > [1] https://github.com/eclipse/microprofile-health/ > > > On 31. May 2018, at 18:40, Sanne Grinovero wrote: > > > > It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing > > microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" > > easier. > > > > In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able > > to connect to the database and do our usual things. > > > > This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there > > could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an > > higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection > > APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor > > timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. > > > > Wrote some notes on: > > - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 > > > > Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM > > could expose/implement it too for their respective services? > > > > Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? > > > > Thanks, > > Sanne > > ___ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > ___ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
Hi Sanne, whatever you consider to implement in Hibernate ORM/Search/OMG I think you should use/follow the MicroProfile Health spec [1]. As far as I know WildFly Swarm supports already this spec. Best regards, Andrej Golovnin [1] https://github.com/eclipse/microprofile-health/ > On 31. May 2018, at 18:40, Sanne Grinovero wrote: > > It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing > microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" > easier. > > In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able > to connect to the database and do our usual things. > > This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there > could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an > higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection > APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor > timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. > > Wrote some notes on: > - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 > > Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM > could expose/implement it too for their respective services? > > Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? > > Thanks, > Sanne > ___ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
See inline
On 06/01/2018 03:00 AM, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>> We could do it via the Statistics mechanism which can be made available
> via
> JMX.
>
> >From what I understand it would be an explicit call from the user
> (OpenShift in this case) that would trigger an active check, like a request
> to the database. Not sure the statistics are the best place to put such a
> thing.
I don't believe so either, although data from the Statistics may be what
we do expose.
Perhaps a service placed into the StandardServiceRegistry that operates
as a
SessionFactoryObserver would work in this case allowing us to support
the use case
where an application spins up multiple SessionFactory configurations.
> Or is it about us doing periodic checks on our own, and displaying the
> results somewhere for anyone to see if something is wrong? That sounds
> unnecessarily complex.
We either do it periodically or we do it at the time the health check
endpoint is called?
> Sure. I wonder about the granularity though: if we have multiple
> connections (multiple Elasticsearch cluster, a Lucene cluster with JGroups
> or JMS, ...), what would these OpenShift people want us to expose? One big
> "everything is fine/something is wrong" status, potentially returning a
> specific error message to tell what part is wrong exactly? Or finer-grained
> statuses, like "backend X: OK, backend Y: OK, Backend Z/JGroups: OK, ..."?
I haven't looked at OpenShift specifically as-of-yet but I would guess
it is something
akin to my experience with Eureka where the caller is effectively
checking 2 things
1. Can I reach the endpoint (if not, its definitely OFFLINE)
2. The value of the "status" named value in the root of the JSON response.
So I would expect we'd had some type of structure similar to this JSON
response
{
"status": "UP"
"backend_X": {
"status": "UP",
...
},
"backend_Y": {
"status": "UP",
...
}
}
> Also, I suppose we would expose our own APIs/SPIs, right? Not implement
> some OpenShift-specific SPIs? I'd rather avoid that...
+1
> On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 at 01:36 Vlad Mihalcea wrote:
>
>> We could do it via the Statistics mechanism which can be made available via
>> JMX.
>>
>> We just have to add whatever info they are interested in to monitor.
>>
>> Vlad
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Sanne Grinovero
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing
>>> microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks"
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able
>>> to connect to the database and do our usual things.
>>>
>>> This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there
>>> could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an
>>> higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection
>>> APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor
>>> timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions.
>>>
>>> Wrote some notes on:
>>> - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655
>>>
>>> Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM
>>> could expose/implement it too for their respective services?
>>>
>>> Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sanne
>>> ___
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>> ___
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
___
hibernate-dev mailing list
hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
This ties to the lazy database discovery in Cloud environments. The issue related to that also mentions a health check API. I don't think it ties to the Stats or JMX API as at least for the initial start, this API should be able to provide feedback while Hibernate engine is starting (and looping). It would be interesting to explore what other IO engines offer as health check APIs to be inspired (straight poll, callback etc). Emmanuel On Thu 18-05-31 17:40, Sanne Grinovero wrote: >It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing >microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" >easier. > >In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able >to connect to the database and do our usual things. > >This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there >could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an >higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection >APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor >timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. > >Wrote some notes on: > - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 > >Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM >could expose/implement it too for their respective services? > >Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? > >Thanks, >Sanne >___ >hibernate-dev mailing list >hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org >https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
> We could do it via the Statistics mechanism which can be made available via JMX. >From what I understand it would be an explicit call from the user (OpenShift in this case) that would trigger an active check, like a request to the database. Not sure the statistics are the best place to put such a thing. Or is it about us doing periodic checks on our own, and displaying the results somewhere for anyone to see if something is wrong? That sounds unnecessarily complex. > Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM could expose/implement it too for their respective services? Sure. I wonder about the granularity though: if we have multiple connections (multiple Elasticsearch cluster, a Lucene cluster with JGroups or JMS, ...), what would these OpenShift people want us to expose? One big "everything is fine/something is wrong" status, potentially returning a specific error message to tell what part is wrong exactly? Or finer-grained statuses, like "backend X: OK, backend Y: OK, Backend Z/JGroups: OK, ..."? Also, I suppose we would expose our own APIs/SPIs, right? Not implement some OpenShift-specific SPIs? I'd rather avoid that... On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 at 01:36 Vlad Mihalcea wrote: > We could do it via the Statistics mechanism which can be made available via > JMX. > > We just have to add whatever info they are interested in to monitor. > > Vlad > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Sanne Grinovero > wrote: > > > It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing > > microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" > > easier. > > > > In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able > > to connect to the database and do our usual things. > > > > This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there > > could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an > > higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection > > APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor > > timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. > > > > Wrote some notes on: > > - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 > > > > Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM > > could expose/implement it too for their respective services? > > > > Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? > > > > Thanks, > > Sanne > > ___ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > ___ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > -- Yoann Rodiere yo...@hibernate.org / yrodi...@redhat.com Software Engineer Hibernate NoORM team ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
Re: [hibernate-dev] Health check status API
We could do it via the Statistics mechanism which can be made available via JMX. We just have to add whatever info they are interested in to monitor. Vlad On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Sanne Grinovero wrote: > It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing > microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" > easier. > > In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able > to connect to the database and do our usual things. > > This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there > could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an > higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection > APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor > timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. > > Wrote some notes on: > - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 > > Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM > could expose/implement it too for their respective services? > > Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? > > Thanks, > Sanne > ___ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
[hibernate-dev] Health check status API
It was suggested to me that Hibernate ORM could help people developing microservices on Kubernetes / Openshift by making "health checks" easier. In short, how to expose to some management API that we're being able to connect to the database and do our usual things. This could be done by connection pools as well but I suspect there could be benefits in exposing this information in a unified way at an higher level API; also on top of using ad-hoc specific connection APIs, or Dialect specific instructions, I guess we could monitor timeout exceptions, etc.. happening on the application sessions. Wrote some notes on: - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12655 Probably best to explore this in ORM first, but then Search and OGM could expose/implement it too for their respective services? Or maybe people would prefer to just run a query? Thanks, Sanne ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
