Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-17 Thread Hardy Ferentschik 
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 01:06:14PM +, Steve Ebersole wrote:
> FYI...
> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/312708/stackoverflow-teams-sign-up

Interesting. 

--Hardy



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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-17 Thread Steve Ebersole 
FYI...
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/312708/stackoverflow-teams-sign-up


On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:07 PM Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> I just sent the request.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 12:26 PM Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>
>> On 10 December 2015 at 17:48, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:43 AM Sanne Grinovero 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 10 December 2015 at 15:24, Steve Ebersole 
>> wrote:
>> >> > BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the
>> JBoss
>> >> > Mailman instance.  Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to
>> set
>> >> > up a
>> >> > number of lists by default.  We just chose to not really use this
>> one in
>> >> > particular.  We could use this one for purpose discussed here.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, that would be nice. I'm registered on that list, and there have
>> >> been questions already although they are extremely rare - I recall
>> >> something like 3 a year? - probably because I don't think its
>> >> existance was ever advertised.
>> >
>> >
>> > Not sure.  Mailman is not great at showing "list statistics".  Actually
>> it
>> > kind of sucks as an archive (not searchable, segmented, etc).
>> >
>> > http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/hibernate-users/
>> >
>> >
>> >> > BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team.  Are we thinking one
>> >> > team?
>> >> > Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)?
>> >>
>> >> Depends on how it works? I do monitor various tags, including
>> >> "hibernate", "hibernate-search", "hibernate-ogm" and sometimes do a
>> >> cross-check query like "hibernate" + "lucene", although others on our
>> >> team often arrive first to answer.
>> >>
>> >> If the intent of the feature is to distribute the load among people to
>> >> answer and monitor such tags, then I guess you're not interested in
>> >> being notified for the Lucene related ones?
>> >>
>> >> From what I understand here:
>> >>  -
>> >>
>> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307513/the-power-of-teams-a-proposed-expansion-of-stack-overflow
>> >>
>> >> It looks like it's more about showing off our affiliation, and to
>> >> create a space were people can ask questions "about the team".
>> >> So I'd say a single team unless I misunderstood things.
>> >
>> >
>> > That would be my vote as well: one team
>>
>> Let's start with one then!
>> If future features warrant a more fine-grained approach for some
>> practicality reasons, we'll consider making sub-groups as an addition,
>> but I guess in terms of community it makes sense to build up a single
>> strong brand.
>>
>> Will you set it up?
>>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Steve Ebersole 
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:43 AM Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> On 10 December 2015 at 15:24, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> > BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the JBoss
> > Mailman instance.  Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to set
> up a
> > number of lists by default.  We just chose to not really use this one in
> > particular.  We could use this one for purpose discussed here.
>
> Yes, that would be nice. I'm registered on that list, and there have
> been questions already although they are extremely rare - I recall
> something like 3 a year? - probably because I don't think its
> existance was ever advertised.
>

Not sure.  Mailman is not great at showing "list statistics".  Actually it
kind of sucks as an archive (not searchable, segmented, etc).

http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/hibernate-users/


> BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team.  Are we thinking one
> team?
> > Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)?
>
> Depends on how it works? I do monitor various tags, including
> "hibernate", "hibernate-search", "hibernate-ogm" and sometimes do a
> cross-check query like "hibernate" + "lucene", although others on our
> team often arrive first to answer.
>
> If the intent of the feature is to distribute the load among people to
> answer and monitor such tags, then I guess you're not interested in
> being notified for the Lucene related ones?
>
> From what I understand here:
>  -
> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307513/the-power-of-teams-a-proposed-expansion-of-stack-overflow
>
> It looks like it's more about showing off our affiliation, and to
> create a space were people can ask questions "about the team".
> So I'd say a single team unless I misunderstood things.
>


That would be my vote as well: one team
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Sanne Grinovero 
On 10 December 2015 at 17:48, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:43 AM Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 10 December 2015 at 15:24, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>> > BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the JBoss
>> > Mailman instance.  Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to set
>> > up a
>> > number of lists by default.  We just chose to not really use this one in
>> > particular.  We could use this one for purpose discussed here.
>>
>> Yes, that would be nice. I'm registered on that list, and there have
>> been questions already although they are extremely rare - I recall
>> something like 3 a year? - probably because I don't think its
>> existance was ever advertised.
>
>
> Not sure.  Mailman is not great at showing "list statistics".  Actually it
> kind of sucks as an archive (not searchable, segmented, etc).
>
> http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/hibernate-users/
>
>
>> > BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team.  Are we thinking one
>> > team?
>> > Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)?
>>
>> Depends on how it works? I do monitor various tags, including
>> "hibernate", "hibernate-search", "hibernate-ogm" and sometimes do a
>> cross-check query like "hibernate" + "lucene", although others on our
>> team often arrive first to answer.
>>
>> If the intent of the feature is to distribute the load among people to
>> answer and monitor such tags, then I guess you're not interested in
>> being notified for the Lucene related ones?
>>
>> From what I understand here:
>>  -
>> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307513/the-power-of-teams-a-proposed-expansion-of-stack-overflow
>>
>> It looks like it's more about showing off our affiliation, and to
>> create a space were people can ask questions "about the team".
>> So I'd say a single team unless I misunderstood things.
>
>
> That would be my vote as well: one team

Let's start with one then!
If future features warrant a more fine-grained approach for some
practicality reasons, we'll consider making sub-groups as an addition,
but I guess in terms of community it makes sense to build up a single
strong brand.

Will you set it up?
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Sanne Grinovero 
On 10 December 2015 at 15:24, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the JBoss
> Mailman instance.  Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to set up a
> number of lists by default.  We just chose to not really use this one in
> particular.  We could use this one for purpose discussed here.

Yes, that would be nice. I'm registered on that list, and there have
been questions already although they are extremely rare - I recall
something like 3 a year? - probably because I don't think its
existance was ever advertised.

> BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team.  Are we thinking one team?
> Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)?

Depends on how it works? I do monitor various tags, including
"hibernate", "hibernate-search", "hibernate-ogm" and sometimes do a
cross-check query like "hibernate" + "lucene", although others on our
team often arrive first to answer.

If the intent of the feature is to distribute the load among people to
answer and monitor such tags, then I guess you're not interested in
being notified for the Lucene related ones?

>From what I understand here:
 - 
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307513/the-power-of-teams-a-proposed-expansion-of-stack-overflow

It looks like it's more about showing off our affiliation, and to
create a space were people can ask questions "about the team".
So I'd say a single team unless I misunderstood things.

Sanne

>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:20 AM Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>>
>> If anyone is unfamiliar with Nabble... Here is the Nabble-ized form of
>> this very mailing list: http://hibernate-development.74578.x6.nabble.com/
>>
>> It looks/works just like a forum.  For mailing-list backed Nabble forums
>> it is read-only in effect, unless you also subscribe to the mailing list.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:41 AM Steve Ebersole 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You know my thoughts on the forum.   I think forum versus mailing list is
>>> just very much a personal preference.  Some people really like one or the
>>> other. Why not split the middle and use mailing list + nabble?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 7:35 AM Hardy Ferentschik 
>>> wrote:

 Hi,

 > > So basically I would suggest:
 > >
 > > - Put the forum into a read only mode
 > > - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in
 > > content to what's in the post
 > >   mentioned above)
 > > - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow
 > > - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date
 > > - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org
 > > - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!?
 > >
 > > I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.
 >
 > Looks like a solid plan so I captured in
 > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416

 Awesome thanks.

 > (even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people
 > on such a significant change)

 Sure, we need a general buy in into this approach.

 > It saddens me to see the forum go though.

 Sometimes it is just time to say goodbye :-) Keeping it alive would imo
 just reduce the gained benefits (no need to battle spam, no need to
 monitor
 its service and run database rescue operations, no need to use an old
 fashioned
 UI)

 > Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a
 > new mailing list?

 I think a mailing list is better.

 Would be interesting to hear what others think.

 --Hardy

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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Steve Ebersole 
I just sent the request.


On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 12:26 PM Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> On 10 December 2015 at 17:48, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:43 AM Sanne Grinovero 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 10 December 2015 at 15:24, Steve Ebersole 
> wrote:
> >> > BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the
> JBoss
> >> > Mailman instance.  Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to
> set
> >> > up a
> >> > number of lists by default.  We just chose to not really use this one
> in
> >> > particular.  We could use this one for purpose discussed here.
> >>
> >> Yes, that would be nice. I'm registered on that list, and there have
> >> been questions already although they are extremely rare - I recall
> >> something like 3 a year? - probably because I don't think its
> >> existance was ever advertised.
> >
> >
> > Not sure.  Mailman is not great at showing "list statistics".  Actually
> it
> > kind of sucks as an archive (not searchable, segmented, etc).
> >
> > http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/hibernate-users/
> >
> >
> >> > BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team.  Are we thinking one
> >> > team?
> >> > Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)?
> >>
> >> Depends on how it works? I do monitor various tags, including
> >> "hibernate", "hibernate-search", "hibernate-ogm" and sometimes do a
> >> cross-check query like "hibernate" + "lucene", although others on our
> >> team often arrive first to answer.
> >>
> >> If the intent of the feature is to distribute the load among people to
> >> answer and monitor such tags, then I guess you're not interested in
> >> being notified for the Lucene related ones?
> >>
> >> From what I understand here:
> >>  -
> >>
> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307513/the-power-of-teams-a-proposed-expansion-of-stack-overflow
> >>
> >> It looks like it's more about showing off our affiliation, and to
> >> create a space were people can ask questions "about the team".
> >> So I'd say a single team unless I misunderstood things.
> >
> >
> > That would be my vote as well: one team
>
> Let's start with one then!
> If future features warrant a more fine-grained approach for some
> practicality reasons, we'll consider making sub-groups as an addition,
> but I guess in terms of community it makes sense to build up a single
> strong brand.
>
> Will you set it up?
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Hardy Ferentschik 
Hi,

On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 09:58:01PM +, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
> This seems a nice precedent:
>  - 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-collections-users/m8FnCcmtC88

Right, this is pretty much what I had in mind as well. Whether one would create
a dedicated mailing list like hibernate-discussions can be discussed, but 
otherwise
I would sign under the approach taken for google-collections-users. As mentioned
in the post, the best place with the biggest community for questions of the 
"How do I"
type is Stackoverflow.

So basically I would suggest:

- Put the forum into a read only mode
- Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in content to 
what's in the post
  mentioned above)
- Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow
- Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date
- Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org
- Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!?

I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.

--Hardy



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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Sanne Grinovero 
On 10 December 2015 at 12:12, Hardy Ferentschik  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 09:58:01PM +, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
>> This seems a nice precedent:
>>  - 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-collections-users/m8FnCcmtC88
>
> Right, this is pretty much what I had in mind as well. Whether one would 
> create
> a dedicated mailing list like hibernate-discussions can be discussed, but 
> otherwise
> I would sign under the approach taken for google-collections-users. As 
> mentioned
> in the post, the best place with the biggest community for questions of the 
> "How do I"
> type is Stackoverflow.
>
> So basically I would suggest:
>
> - Put the forum into a read only mode
> - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in content to 
> what's in the post
>   mentioned above)
> - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow
> - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date
> - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org
> - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!?
>
> I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.

Looks like a solid plan so I captured in
https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416
(even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people
on such a significant change)

It saddens me to see the forum go though.
Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a
new mailing list?

Might be just an excuse to keep it alive, but also it would allow to
not put it fully in read-only mode and have a chance to suggest - for
certain kinds of questions - to move to SO.

Also, there are many kinds of questions on the forums which I don't
see fit in neither SO nor on a mailing list. Sometimes people are not
sure if there's a bug, but will want to show some piece of code and
see if somebody can help them with that.
That's typically not a good question to ask on SO, and when it comes
to "post your entities" a mailing list is really lacking in terms of
code formatting.

Sanne
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Hardy Ferentschik 
Hi,

> > So basically I would suggest:
> >
> > - Put the forum into a read only mode
> > - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in content to 
> > what's in the post
> >   mentioned above)
> > - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow
> > - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date
> > - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org
> > - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!?
> >
> > I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.
> 
> Looks like a solid plan so I captured in
> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416

Awesome thanks.

> (even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people
> on such a significant change)

Sure, we need a general buy in into this approach.

> It saddens me to see the forum go though.

Sometimes it is just time to say goodbye :-) Keeping it alive would imo
just reduce the gained benefits (no need to battle spam, no need to monitor
its service and run database rescue operations, no need to use an old fashioned 
UI)

> Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a
> new mailing list?

I think a mailing list is better.

Would be interesting to hear what others think. 

--Hardy



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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Steve Ebersole 
You know my thoughts on the forum.   I think forum versus mailing list is
just very much a personal preference.  Some people really like one or the
other. Why not split the middle and use mailing list + nabble?

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 7:35 AM Hardy Ferentschik  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > > So basically I would suggest:
> > >
> > > - Put the forum into a read only mode
> > > - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in
> content to what's in the post
> > >   mentioned above)
> > > - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow
> > > - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date
> > > - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org
> > > - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!?
> > >
> > > I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.
> >
> > Looks like a solid plan so I captured in
> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416
>
> Awesome thanks.
>
> > (even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people
> > on such a significant change)
>
> Sure, we need a general buy in into this approach.
>
> > It saddens me to see the forum go though.
>
> Sometimes it is just time to say goodbye :-) Keeping it alive would imo
> just reduce the gained benefits (no need to battle spam, no need to monitor
> its service and run database rescue operations, no need to use an old
> fashioned
> UI)
>
> > Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a
> > new mailing list?
>
> I think a mailing list is better.
>
> Would be interesting to hear what others think.
>
> --Hardy
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Steve Ebersole 
BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the JBoss
Mailman instance.  Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to set up
a number of lists by default.  We just chose to not really use this one in
particular.  We could use this one for purpose discussed here.

BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team.  Are we thinking one
team?  Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)?

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:20 AM Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> If anyone is unfamiliar with Nabble... Here is the Nabble-ized form of
> this very mailing list: http://hibernate-development.74578.x6.nabble.com/
>
> It looks/works just like a forum.  For mailing-list backed Nabble forums
> it is read-only in effect, unless you also subscribe to the mailing list.
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:41 AM Steve Ebersole 
> wrote:
>
>> You know my thoughts on the forum.   I think forum versus mailing list is
>> just very much a personal preference.  Some people really like one or the
>> other. Why not split the middle and use mailing list + nabble?
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 7:35 AM Hardy Ferentschik 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> > > So basically I would suggest:
>>> > >
>>> > > - Put the forum into a read only mode
>>> > > - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in
>>> content to what's in the post
>>> > >   mentioned above)
>>> > > - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow
>>> > > - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date
>>> > > - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org
>>> > > - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!?
>>> > >
>>> > > I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.
>>> >
>>> > Looks like a solid plan so I captured in
>>> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416
>>>
>>> Awesome thanks.
>>>
>>> > (even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people
>>> > on such a significant change)
>>>
>>> Sure, we need a general buy in into this approach.
>>>
>>> > It saddens me to see the forum go though.
>>>
>>> Sometimes it is just time to say goodbye :-) Keeping it alive would imo
>>> just reduce the gained benefits (no need to battle spam, no need to
>>> monitor
>>> its service and run database rescue operations, no need to use an old
>>> fashioned
>>> UI)
>>>
>>> > Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a
>>> > new mailing list?
>>>
>>> I think a mailing list is better.
>>>
>>> Would be interesting to hear what others think.
>>>
>>> --Hardy
>>>
>>> ___
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-10 Thread Steve Ebersole 
If anyone is unfamiliar with Nabble... Here is the Nabble-ized form of this
very mailing list: http://hibernate-development.74578.x6.nabble.com/

It looks/works just like a forum.  For mailing-list backed Nabble forums it is
read-only in effect, unless you also subscribe to the mailing list.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:41 AM Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> You know my thoughts on the forum.   I think forum versus mailing list is
> just very much a personal preference.  Some people really like one or the
> other. Why not split the middle and use mailing list + nabble?
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 7:35 AM Hardy Ferentschik 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > > So basically I would suggest:
>> > >
>> > > - Put the forum into a read only mode
>> > > - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in
>> content to what's in the post
>> > >   mentioned above)
>> > > - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow
>> > > - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date
>> > > - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org
>> > > - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!?
>> > >
>> > > I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.
>> >
>> > Looks like a solid plan so I captured in
>> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416
>>
>> Awesome thanks.
>>
>> > (even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people
>> > on such a significant change)
>>
>> Sure, we need a general buy in into this approach.
>>
>> > It saddens me to see the forum go though.
>>
>> Sometimes it is just time to say goodbye :-) Keeping it alive would imo
>> just reduce the gained benefits (no need to battle spam, no need to
>> monitor
>> its service and run database rescue operations, no need to use an old
>> fashioned
>> UI)
>>
>> > Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a
>> > new mailing list?
>>
>> I think a mailing list is better.
>>
>> Would be interesting to hear what others think.
>>
>> --Hardy
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Vlad Mihalcea 
Nice!

It works guys. Go to the forum and check the post that I entered.
It has a question mark attached and if you log out you cannot see it.

This got to discourage the spammers, for sure.

Vlad

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Vlad Mihalcea 
wrote:

> I think we have the option.
>
> Administration Control Panel -> Post Settings
>
> Enable queued posts: Yes
> Maximum post count for queued posts: 1
>
> I have activated and I will test it with a new account.
>
> Vlad
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>
>> On 9 December 2015 at 07:02, Vlad Mihalcea 
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I agree that a value of 1 is sufficient too. Once a user posted a
>> > Hibernate-related question, there is no way he will want to spam the
>> forum.
>>
>> +1
>> Is that possible with our current forum?
>> I think I proposed something similar before but didn't find such an
>> option.
>>
>> > I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev
>> > team. On SO, you get answers for the community.
>>
>> That's crucial. We can't possibly find the bandwidth to help all the
>> users ourselves if they don't help each other too.
>>
>> > So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather
>> > than pick one over the other.
>> >
>> > Vlad
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Brett Meyer 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 12/08/2015 02:46 AM, Vlad Mihalcea wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we
>> should
>> >> > probably enable these forum options:
>> >> > Enable queued posts:
>> >> > Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post
>> >> count
>> >> > is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect
>> on
>> >> the
>> >> > permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for
>> queued
>> >> > posts:
>> >> > If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to
>> reach
>> >> > in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is
>> below
>> >> > this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way
>> we
>> >> can
>> >> > make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all
>> posts
>> >> > and active users can get their post approved immediately.
>> >> +1 from me.  Although, I'd suggest setting that post count extremely
>> >> low.  Even "1" is likely sufficient, considering the spammers always
>> >> seem to open a new account and post a brand new topic.
>> >> > We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a
>> very
>> >> > active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions
>> there
>> >> > too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO
>> tag
>> >> link
>> >> > before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO
>> instead of
>> >> > the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many
>> easy
>> >> > questions would get answered by other SO users too.
>> >> I'm on the fence on this one.
>> >>
>> >> On the one hand, SO is not a user forum.  Keep in mind the
>> hibernate.org
>> >> forums are for more than just issues and usage discussions.  We've had
>> >> new feature discussions start there, general topics, etc.
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, many issues/usage questions go unanswered -- they'd
>> >> certainly get more eyes and activity on SO.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe the best approach is a hybrid, where we clearly lay out the
>> >> intentions/strengths of each?
>> >> > Vlad
>> >> > ___
>> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>
>> > ___
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Vlad Mihalcea 
I think we have the option.

Administration Control Panel -> Post Settings

Enable queued posts: Yes
Maximum post count for queued posts: 1

I have activated and I will test it with a new account.

Vlad

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> On 9 December 2015 at 07:02, Vlad Mihalcea 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I agree that a value of 1 is sufficient too. Once a user posted a
> > Hibernate-related question, there is no way he will want to spam the
> forum.
>
> +1
> Is that possible with our current forum?
> I think I proposed something similar before but didn't find such an option.
>
> > I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev
> > team. On SO, you get answers for the community.
>
> That's crucial. We can't possibly find the bandwidth to help all the
> users ourselves if they don't help each other too.
>
> > So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather
> > than pick one over the other.
> >
> > Vlad
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Brett Meyer 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/08/2015 02:46 AM, Vlad Mihalcea wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we
> should
> >> > probably enable these forum options:
> >> > Enable queued posts:
> >> > Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post
> >> count
> >> > is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect on
> >> the
> >> > permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for
> queued
> >> > posts:
> >> > If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to
> reach
> >> > in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is
> below
> >> > this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way we
> >> can
> >> > make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all
> posts
> >> > and active users can get their post approved immediately.
> >> +1 from me.  Although, I'd suggest setting that post count extremely
> >> low.  Even "1" is likely sufficient, considering the spammers always
> >> seem to open a new account and post a brand new topic.
> >> > We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a
> very
> >> > active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions
> there
> >> > too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO tag
> >> link
> >> > before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO instead
> of
> >> > the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many easy
> >> > questions would get answered by other SO users too.
> >> I'm on the fence on this one.
> >>
> >> On the one hand, SO is not a user forum.  Keep in mind the
> hibernate.org
> >> forums are for more than just issues and usage discussions.  We've had
> >> new feature discussions start there, general topics, etc.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, many issues/usage questions go unanswered -- they'd
> >> certainly get more eyes and activity on SO.
> >>
> >> Maybe the best approach is a hybrid, where we clearly lay out the
> >> intentions/strengths of each?
> >> > Vlad
> >> > ___
> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> > ___
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Sanne Grinovero 
On 9 December 2015 at 07:02, Vlad Mihalcea  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I agree that a value of 1 is sufficient too. Once a user posted a
> Hibernate-related question, there is no way he will want to spam the forum.

+1
Is that possible with our current forum?
I think I proposed something similar before but didn't find such an option.

> I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev
> team. On SO, you get answers for the community.

That's crucial. We can't possibly find the bandwidth to help all the
users ourselves if they don't help each other too.

> So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather
> than pick one over the other.
>
> Vlad
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Brett Meyer  wrote:
>
>> On 12/08/2015 02:46 AM, Vlad Mihalcea wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we should
>> > probably enable these forum options:
>> > Enable queued posts:
>> > Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post
>> count
>> > is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect on
>> the
>> > permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for queued
>> > posts:
>> > If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to reach
>> > in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is below
>> > this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way we
>> can
>> > make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all posts
>> > and active users can get their post approved immediately.
>> +1 from me.  Although, I'd suggest setting that post count extremely
>> low.  Even "1" is likely sufficient, considering the spammers always
>> seem to open a new account and post a brand new topic.
>> > We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a very
>> > active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions there
>> > too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO tag
>> link
>> > before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO instead of
>> > the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many easy
>> > questions would get answered by other SO users too.
>> I'm on the fence on this one.
>>
>> On the one hand, SO is not a user forum.  Keep in mind the hibernate.org
>> forums are for more than just issues and usage discussions.  We've had
>> new feature discussions start there, general topics, etc.
>>
>> On the other hand, many issues/usage questions go unanswered -- they'd
>> certainly get more eyes and activity on SO.
>>
>> Maybe the best approach is a hybrid, where we clearly lay out the
>> intentions/strengths of each?
>> > Vlad
>> > ___
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>>
>> ___
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
> ___
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> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Vlad Mihalcea 
Interesting thoughts.

In last 6 days we got 24 questions about Hibernate and around 30-40 spam
messages.
That's why I think it's good to have that option enabled, otherwise the
forum will not look professional at all.

Once a user has been accepted, any new post will propagate automatically.
So it's just a one time thing for every user of this forum.

Vlad

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Hardy Ferentschik 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev
> > team. On SO, you get answers for the community.
>
> I am confused. Is the whole forum not about community as well? I would
> assume that
> there are many questions which are discussed and solved by the community
> itself w/o
> any interaction of the dev team.
>
> Also, there is no reason why the Hibernate team should not be reachable on
> Stackoverflow.
> In fact, I am ourdays exclusively on Stackoverflow, because it imo ways
> superior to
> our (technologly) outdated forum.
>
> Also, Stackoverflow actually introduced now a new "feature" called "Teams"
> -
> http://stackoverflow.com/teams. Seems to be a good time to discuss
> whether we want to
> create a Hibernate team or maybe even project specific teams or whether we
> have no
> interest at all in this.
>
> The only problem I see with Stackoverflow is that some discussions which
> are occurring
> on the Forum are not suited for Stackoverflow. In these cases the
> discussion should be
> moved to mailing list, JIRA or IRC (depending on the circumstances).
>
> > So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather
> > than pick one over the other.
>
> I don't think I would sign this statement in this form ;-)
>
> --Hardy
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Hardy Ferentschik 
Hi,

> I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev
> team. On SO, you get answers for the community.

I am confused. Is the whole forum not about community as well? I would assume 
that
there are many questions which are discussed and solved by the community itself 
w/o
any interaction of the dev team.

Also, there is no reason why the Hibernate team should not be reachable on 
Stackoverflow.
In fact, I am ourdays exclusively on Stackoverflow, because it imo ways 
superior to
our (technologly) outdated forum.

Also, Stackoverflow actually introduced now a new "feature" called "Teams" -
http://stackoverflow.com/teams. Seems to be a good time to discuss whether we 
want to
create a Hibernate team or maybe even project specific teams or whether we have 
no
interest at all in this.

The only problem I see with Stackoverflow is that some discussions which are 
occurring
on the Forum are not suited for Stackoverflow. In these cases the discussion 
should be
moved to mailing list, JIRA or IRC (depending on the circumstances).

> So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather
> than pick one over the other.

I don't think I would sign this statement in this form ;-)

--Hardy



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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Steve Ebersole 
Interesting about the SO Teams feature,  I had not seen that yet.   I'll
have to look at it.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015, 7:43 AM Hardy Ferentschik  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev
> > team. On SO, you get answers for the community.
>
> I am confused. Is the whole forum not about community as well? I would
> assume that
> there are many questions which are discussed and solved by the community
> itself w/o
> any interaction of the dev team.
>
> Also, there is no reason why the Hibernate team should not be reachable on
> Stackoverflow.
> In fact, I am ourdays exclusively on Stackoverflow, because it imo ways
> superior to
> our (technologly) outdated forum.
>
> Also, Stackoverflow actually introduced now a new "feature" called "Teams"
> -
> http://stackoverflow.com/teams. Seems to be a good time to discuss
> whether we want to
> create a Hibernate team or maybe even project specific teams or whether we
> have no
> interest at all in this.
>
> The only problem I see with Stackoverflow is that some discussions which
> are occurring
> on the Forum are not suited for Stackoverflow. In these cases the
> discussion should be
> moved to mailing list, JIRA or IRC (depending on the circumstances).
>
> > So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather
> > than pick one over the other.
>
> I don't think I would sign this statement in this form ;-)
>
> --Hardy
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Emmanuel Bernard 
To complement some of the sentiment, SO is awesome to answer questions on the 
project. But not to get interactions with the users to get the right use case, 
exchange on potential bugs to later open JIRAs etc.

> On 08 Dec 2015, at 08:46, Vlad Mihalcea  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we should
> probably enable these forum options:
> Enable queued posts:
> Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post count
> is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect on the
> permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for queued
> posts:
> If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to reach
> in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is below
> this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way we can
> make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all posts
> and active users can get their post approved immediately.
> 
> We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a very
> active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions there
> too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO tag link
> before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO instead of
> the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many easy
> questions would get answered by other SO users too.
> 
> Vlad
> ___
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> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Hardy Ferentschik 
Hi,

On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 02:00:06PM +, Steve Ebersole wrote:
> Interesting about the SO Teams feature,  I had not seen that yet.   I'll
> have to look at it.

It is quite new. Only around for a few weeks. I think the Stackoverflow team
is not 100% sure how things will work out in the long term, but I think it is 
worth creating a Hibernate team either way.

--Hardy



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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Hardy Ferentschik 
Hi,

On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 05:18:23PM +0100, Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> To complement some of the sentiment, SO is awesome to answer questions on the 
> project. 
> But not to get interactions with the users to get the right use case, 
> exchange on potential 
> bugs to later open JIRAs etc.

Sure, as I said, some of these interactions would require that they would be 
early on moved
to another medium. Basically I don't see a big issue here. Often one can quite 
early tell whether
it is worth creating a JIRA. In other cases one can refer to the IRC channels 
and the mailing list.

--Hardy



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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Sanne Grinovero 
On 9 December 2015 at 20:49, Hardy Ferentschik  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 05:18:23PM +0100, Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>> To complement some of the sentiment, SO is awesome to answer questions on 
>> the project.
>> But not to get interactions with the users to get the right use case, 
>> exchange on potential
>> bugs to later open JIRAs etc.
>
> Sure, as I said, some of these interactions would require that they would be 
> early on moved
> to another medium. Basically I don't see a big issue here. Often one can 
> quite early tell whether
> it is worth creating a JIRA. In other cases one can refer to the IRC channels 
> and the mailing list.

This seems a nice precedent:
 - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-collections-users/m8FnCcmtC88

Found via the highly related:
 - 
http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3966/is-it-okay-to-use-stack-overflow-as-the-support-forum-for-a-product-or-project

>
> --Hardy
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-09 Thread Vlad Mihalcea 
Sounds reasonable and straightforward.
I subscribe to have dedicated channels to our community and to make it
clear which one is best suited for a given topic.

Vlad

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> On 9 December 2015 at 20:49, Hardy Ferentschik 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 05:18:23PM +0100, Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >> To complement some of the sentiment, SO is awesome to answer questions
> on the project.
> >> But not to get interactions with the users to get the right use case,
> exchange on potential
> >> bugs to later open JIRAs etc.
> >
> > Sure, as I said, some of these interactions would require that they
> would be early on moved
> > to another medium. Basically I don't see a big issue here. Often one can
> quite early tell whether
> > it is worth creating a JIRA. In other cases one can refer to the IRC
> channels and the mailing list.
>
> This seems a nice precedent:
>  -
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-collections-users/m8FnCcmtC88
>
> Found via the highly related:
>  -
> http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3966/is-it-okay-to-use-stack-overflow-as-the-support-forum-for-a-product-or-project
>
> >
> > --Hardy
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-08 Thread Brett Meyer 
On 12/08/2015 02:46 AM, Vlad Mihalcea wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we should
> probably enable these forum options:
> Enable queued posts:
> Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post count
> is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect on the
> permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for queued
> posts:
> If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to reach
> in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is below
> this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way we can
> make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all posts
> and active users can get their post approved immediately.
+1 from me.  Although, I'd suggest setting that post count extremely 
low.  Even "1" is likely sufficient, considering the spammers always 
seem to open a new account and post a brand new topic.
> We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a very
> active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions there
> too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO tag link
> before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO instead of
> the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many easy
> questions would get answered by other SO users too.
I'm on the fence on this one.

On the one hand, SO is not a user forum.  Keep in mind the hibernate.org 
forums are for more than just issues and usage discussions.  We've had 
new feature discussions start there, general topics, etc.

On the other hand, many issues/usage questions go unanswered -- they'd 
certainly get more eyes and activity on SO.

Maybe the best approach is a hybrid, where we clearly lay out the 
intentions/strengths of each?
> Vlad
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Forum changes proposal

2015-12-08 Thread Vlad Mihalcea 
Hi,

I agree that a value of 1 is sufficient too. Once a user posted a
Hibernate-related question, there is no way he will want to spam the forum.

I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev
team. On SO, you get answers for the community.
So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather
than pick one over the other.

Vlad

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Brett Meyer  wrote:

> On 12/08/2015 02:46 AM, Vlad Mihalcea wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we should
> > probably enable these forum options:
> > Enable queued posts:
> > Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post
> count
> > is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect on
> the
> > permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for queued
> > posts:
> > If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to reach
> > in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is below
> > this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way we
> can
> > make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all posts
> > and active users can get their post approved immediately.
> +1 from me.  Although, I'd suggest setting that post count extremely
> low.  Even "1" is likely sufficient, considering the spammers always
> seem to open a new account and post a brand new topic.
> > We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a very
> > active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions there
> > too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO tag
> link
> > before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO instead of
> > the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many easy
> > questions would get answered by other SO users too.
> I'm on the fence on this one.
>
> On the one hand, SO is not a user forum.  Keep in mind the hibernate.org
> forums are for more than just issues and usage discussions.  We've had
> new feature discussions start there, general topics, etc.
>
> On the other hand, many issues/usage questions go unanswered -- they'd
> certainly get more eyes and activity on SO.
>
> Maybe the best approach is a hybrid, where we clearly lay out the
> intentions/strengths of each?
> > Vlad
> > ___
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