[Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Hi Naira, If removing the blocks from the molds and removing the excess paraffin is taking too long, let's take a look at your equipment then technique. 1. How cold does the cold plate get? 2. How fast does it reach freezing temperature? 3. Does it maintain that same temperature the entire time spent embedding? Technique helps with how much force is needed to remove the block from the mold. Some need to pry the block while others can embed and the mold comes off easily. Technique also helps reduce the amount of excess paraffin you need to remove from the sides. If you have a Wax Trimmer or looking to get one, choose one with a higher working temperature. While equipment and technique can save time, goals and targets should be reasonable. How much time are you actually spending performing these tasks? Jose ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Very well stated! I too have been histology for 3 decades an never ever heard of cold mold embedding. Unbelievable!! Thank you Jay for your insight… Steven Mello, BS HT(ASCP) Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 10, 2022, at 5:47 PM, Shirley Ennis via Histonet > wrote: > > Jay ,I totally agree . > > Shirley > > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> > > From: Shirley A. Powell via Histonet > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 8:12:35 AM > To: Jay Lundgren ; Naira Margaryan > > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm > > Well said Jay. > Thanks, > Shirley Powell > > > -Original Message- > From: Jay Lundgren via Histonet > Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 5:37 PM > To: Naira Margaryan > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm > > Whoever is telling you to use cold molds needs to go back to clown college. > > That is totally, 100%, absolutely, wrong. > > There is some debate as to embed "wet" (cassettes submerged in paraffin > bath) or "dry", and I will accept either, as mostly a matter of personal > preference. BUT, in both of these cases, the molds are hot. > > I have been a Histotech for five decades, trained at Armed Forces Institute > of Pathology (back when that used to mean something) and I have NEVER seen > anyone using cold molds. > > It is a guaranteed way to get cold fractures and cracks in your blocks, or to > pop tissue out when you are cutting, which might be irretrievable. Just think > how much time all those re-embedded blocks are going to save you! > > Also, you won't be able to easily re-position specimens in the block, to put > them "on edge" or "on end", for example. The tissue will instantly stick to > the cold mold. And if you want to re-position it, guess what, you'll have to > warm the mold up to get the tissue unstuck. How's that (non-existent anyway) > time savings now? > > > If you want to prove to whatever jackass suggested this that they are wrong, > get a big stack of every histopathology textbook you can find. > There is nothing in any of them talking about paraffin embedding with cold > molds. > > As a matter of fact, every single textbook will specify molds at the same > temp as paraffin. > > Anyway, it doesn't even make sense, thermodynamically. Heat travels from hot > to cold. Those "cold" molds will be the same temperature as the paraffin, > almost instantly. Did it take a tiny amount of heat out of the hot paraffin? > Yes, but not enough to noticeably cool the blocks faster. The amount of heat > from the paraffin used to warm the mold is trivial compared to the total heat > of the system. That's why cold plates have huge, noisy refrigeration units. > You can't argue with thermodynamics. > > If you are having trouble getting your blocks to release, use mold release! > Viola! > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statlab.com%2Fdata=05%7C01%7Cpowell_sa%40mercer.edu%7C84d81a9eddad4ba8159308da92ab72a7%7C4fb34d2889b247109bcc30824d17fc30%7C0%7C0%7C637983562331339740%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=YDxIy7oMkibqOiMnl0D44LCG3XD0oKPY7jFHZBHBrsM%3Dreserved=0. > I used to think it was superfluous, but now I consider it compulsory. This > is probably the answer to most of your issues. > > I don't know who is suggesting using cold molds, but I can pretty much > guarantee that it's a pathologist who thinks his slides are taking too long, > and knows nothing about histopathology, or a lab manager, who knows nothing > about histopathology. This next part is directly to them. > > To Whoever Suggested Cold Molds: The answer to getting your slides out > quicker is buying more equipment and hiring more techs, and holding everyone > to standards (30 blocks/hr cutting, 60 blocks/hr embedding). > Making nonsensical, uninformed suggestions only exposes your ignorance. > > Please feel free to show them this reply. > > Sincerely, > > Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) > ___ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.utsouthwestern.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhistonetdata=05%7C01%7Cpowell_sa%40mercer.edu%7C84d81a9eddad4ba8159308da92ab72a7%7C4fb34d2889b247109bcc30824d17fc30%7C0%7C0%7C637983562331339740%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=zA5yQmG4SG0GCEs7
Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Jay ,I totally agree . Shirley Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> From: Shirley A. Powell via Histonet Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 8:12:35 AM To: Jay Lundgren ; Naira Margaryan Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm Well said Jay. Thanks, Shirley Powell -Original Message- From: Jay Lundgren via Histonet Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 5:37 PM To: Naira Margaryan Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm Whoever is telling you to use cold molds needs to go back to clown college. That is totally, 100%, absolutely, wrong. There is some debate as to embed "wet" (cassettes submerged in paraffin bath) or "dry", and I will accept either, as mostly a matter of personal preference. BUT, in both of these cases, the molds are hot. I have been a Histotech for five decades, trained at Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (back when that used to mean something) and I have NEVER seen anyone using cold molds. It is a guaranteed way to get cold fractures and cracks in your blocks, or to pop tissue out when you are cutting, which might be irretrievable. Just think how much time all those re-embedded blocks are going to save you! Also, you won't be able to easily re-position specimens in the block, to put them "on edge" or "on end", for example. The tissue will instantly stick to the cold mold. And if you want to re-position it, guess what, you'll have to warm the mold up to get the tissue unstuck. How's that (non-existent anyway) time savings now? If you want to prove to whatever jackass suggested this that they are wrong, get a big stack of every histopathology textbook you can find. There is nothing in any of them talking about paraffin embedding with cold molds. As a matter of fact, every single textbook will specify molds at the same temp as paraffin. Anyway, it doesn't even make sense, thermodynamically. Heat travels from hot to cold. Those "cold" molds will be the same temperature as the paraffin, almost instantly. Did it take a tiny amount of heat out of the hot paraffin? Yes, but not enough to noticeably cool the blocks faster. The amount of heat from the paraffin used to warm the mold is trivial compared to the total heat of the system. That's why cold plates have huge, noisy refrigeration units. You can't argue with thermodynamics. If you are having trouble getting your blocks to release, use mold release! Viola! https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statlab.com%2Fdata=05%7C01%7Cpowell_sa%40mercer.edu%7C84d81a9eddad4ba8159308da92ab72a7%7C4fb34d2889b247109bcc30824d17fc30%7C0%7C0%7C637983562331339740%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=YDxIy7oMkibqOiMnl0D44LCG3XD0oKPY7jFHZBHBrsM%3Dreserved=0. I used to think it was superfluous, but now I consider it compulsory. This is probably the answer to most of your issues. I don't know who is suggesting using cold molds, but I can pretty much guarantee that it's a pathologist who thinks his slides are taking too long, and knows nothing about histopathology, or a lab manager, who knows nothing about histopathology. This next part is directly to them. To Whoever Suggested Cold Molds: The answer to getting your slides out quicker is buying more equipment and hiring more techs, and holding everyone to standards (30 blocks/hr cutting, 60 blocks/hr embedding). Making nonsensical, uninformed suggestions only exposes your ignorance. Please feel free to show them this reply. Sincerely, Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.utsouthwestern.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhistonetdata=05%7C01%7Cpowell_sa%40mercer.edu%7C84d81a9eddad4ba8159308da92ab72a7%7C4fb34d2889b247109bcc30824d17fc30%7C0%7C0%7C637983562331339740%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=zA5yQmG4SG0GCEs7Wqw%2FUegWBgNiTZl5gVC5EaQRMMI%3Dreserved=0 ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Well said Jay. Thanks, Shirley Powell -Original Message- From: Jay Lundgren via Histonet Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 5:37 PM To: Naira Margaryan Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm Whoever is telling you to use cold molds needs to go back to clown college. That is totally, 100%, absolutely, wrong. There is some debate as to embed "wet" (cassettes submerged in paraffin bath) or "dry", and I will accept either, as mostly a matter of personal preference. BUT, in both of these cases, the molds are hot. I have been a Histotech for five decades, trained at Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (back when that used to mean something) and I have NEVER seen anyone using cold molds. It is a guaranteed way to get cold fractures and cracks in your blocks, or to pop tissue out when you are cutting, which might be irretrievable. Just think how much time all those re-embedded blocks are going to save you! Also, you won't be able to easily re-position specimens in the block, to put them "on edge" or "on end", for example. The tissue will instantly stick to the cold mold. And if you want to re-position it, guess what, you'll have to warm the mold up to get the tissue unstuck. How's that (non-existent anyway) time savings now? If you want to prove to whatever jackass suggested this that they are wrong, get a big stack of every histopathology textbook you can find. There is nothing in any of them talking about paraffin embedding with cold molds. As a matter of fact, every single textbook will specify molds at the same temp as paraffin. Anyway, it doesn't even make sense, thermodynamically. Heat travels from hot to cold. Those "cold" molds will be the same temperature as the paraffin, almost instantly. Did it take a tiny amount of heat out of the hot paraffin? Yes, but not enough to noticeably cool the blocks faster. The amount of heat from the paraffin used to warm the mold is trivial compared to the total heat of the system. That's why cold plates have huge, noisy refrigeration units. You can't argue with thermodynamics. If you are having trouble getting your blocks to release, use mold release! Viola! https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statlab.com%2Fdata=05%7C01%7Cpowell_sa%40mercer.edu%7C84d81a9eddad4ba8159308da92ab72a7%7C4fb34d2889b247109bcc30824d17fc30%7C0%7C0%7C637983562331339740%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=YDxIy7oMkibqOiMnl0D44LCG3XD0oKPY7jFHZBHBrsM%3Dreserved=0. I used to think it was superfluous, but now I consider it compulsory. This is probably the answer to most of your issues. I don't know who is suggesting using cold molds, but I can pretty much guarantee that it's a pathologist who thinks his slides are taking too long, and knows nothing about histopathology, or a lab manager, who knows nothing about histopathology. This next part is directly to them. To Whoever Suggested Cold Molds: The answer to getting your slides out quicker is buying more equipment and hiring more techs, and holding everyone to standards (30 blocks/hr cutting, 60 blocks/hr embedding). Making nonsensical, uninformed suggestions only exposes your ignorance. Please feel free to show them this reply. Sincerely, Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.utsouthwestern.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhistonetdata=05%7C01%7Cpowell_sa%40mercer.edu%7C84d81a9eddad4ba8159308da92ab72a7%7C4fb34d2889b247109bcc30824d17fc30%7C0%7C0%7C637983562331339740%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=zA5yQmG4SG0GCEs7Wqw%2FUegWBgNiTZl5gVC5EaQRMMI%3Dreserved=0 ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Tell us how you really feel Jay. LOL. You say everything that I would say and have said while training people. Like you having been doing this for a bit (1980) and had the privilege of meeting Mr. Lee Luna. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad On Friday, September 9, 2022, 6:14 PM, Naira Margaryan via Histonet wrote: Thank You so much Jay, for such detailed explanation and for permission to use your email to address. My sincere regards, Naira On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 5:00 PM Cooper, Brian wrote: > Thanks for saying this Jay!! I have to say, it's been a while since we've > had such a great response on Histonet!! Everything you said is spot on. > > Happy Friday everyone! > > Thanks, > > Brian Cooper > Histology Supervisor > Children's Hospital Los Angeles > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > On Sep 9, 2022 2:37 PM, Jay Lundgren via Histonet < > histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu> wrote: > CAUTION: BE CAREFUL WITH THIS MESSAGE* > This email came from outside CHLA. Do not open attachments, click on > links, or respond unless you expected this message and recognize the email > address: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu. > > > Whoever is telling you to use cold molds needs to go back to clown college. > > That is totally, 100%, absolutely, wrong. > > There is some debate as to embed "wet" (cassettes submerged in paraffin > bath) or "dry", and I will accept either, as mostly a matter of personal > preference. BUT, in both of these cases, the molds are hot. > > I have been a Histotech for five decades, trained at Armed Forces Institute > of Pathology (back when that used to mean something) and I have NEVER seen > anyone using cold molds. > > It is a guaranteed way to get cold fractures and cracks in your blocks, or > to pop tissue out when you are cutting, which might be irretrievable. Just > think how much time all those re-embedded blocks are going to save you! > > Also, you won't be able to easily re-position specimens in the block, to > put them "on edge" or "on end", for example. The tissue will instantly > stick to the cold mold. And if you want to re-position it, guess what, > you'll have to warm the mold up to get the tissue unstuck. How's that > (non-existent anyway) time savings now? > > > If you want to prove to whatever jackass suggested this that they are > wrong, get a big stack of every histopathology textbook you can find. > There is nothing in any of them talking about paraffin embedding with cold > molds. > > As a matter of fact, every single textbook will specify molds at the same > temp as paraffin. > > Anyway, it doesn't even make sense, thermodynamically. Heat travels from > hot to cold. Those "cold" molds will be the same temperature as the > paraffin, almost instantly. Did it take a tiny amount of heat out of the > hot paraffin? Yes, but not enough to noticeably cool the blocks faster. The > amount of heat from the paraffin used to warm the mold is trivial compared > to the total heat of the system. That's why cold plates have huge, noisy > refrigeration units. You can't argue with thermodynamics. > > If you are having trouble getting your blocks to release, use mold > release! Viola! > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1vhENcmRngDgLubdLEYMzzWWUK4ILg_WIJNnMutz67Oikk5LSg5SqF6OvSQqMWpr4MIirbF_ExGbIXm9Usdm35LUk87pXYTIvPVdKY5u2dRCdo_Ss-iuZ4nCOa0nPTIpPec8zwvOBcVIE7eM7o-flt9BAIGK0ZOw4K3HOXwNiLmQBnD0hFb9pgrU0ZuPnk5llOYCeJ5b2Pmkp2B9UPlVvxPMI3-iHRILtOB4kPL45PII_yUJnJhFYAryeid5lrITtm-w0KNyKrfJVI0mHy47Niz0TEpxxvl3DoTDmq-umsyN3BucCj2B-aJFqJ-AW3thtXSEk-Nl0NzBBrSxw8cPzSrKsVww7cCLh_krbh7VXKlRiRGF41o3UKk_oEQuHGIEeYlUNLnpLndnkSH0cwR3nNWhq3Cy8hw6ws0Ka8kYRH8_TVttsOh_lQbO4tm6_i-fdNOZxcR_7t-QeE9aW5YP1hg/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statlab.com > I used to think it was > superfluous, but now I consider it compulsory. This is probably the answer > to most of your issues. > > I don't know who is suggesting using cold molds, but I can pretty much > guarantee that it's a pathologist who thinks his slides are taking too > long, and knows nothing about histopathology, or a lab manager, who knows > nothing about histopathology. This next part is directly to them. > > To Whoever Suggested Cold Molds: The answer to getting your slides out > quicker is buying more equipment and hiring more techs, and holding > everyone to standards (30 blocks/hr cutting, 60 blocks/hr embedding). > Making nonsensical, uninformed suggestions only exposes your ignorance. > > Please feel free to show them this reply. > > Sincerely, > > Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) > ___ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > >
Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Thank You so much Jay, for such detailed explanation and for permission to use your email to address. My sincere regards, Naira On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 5:00 PM Cooper, Brian wrote: > Thanks for saying this Jay!! I have to say, it's been a while since we've > had such a great response on Histonet!! Everything you said is spot on. > > Happy Friday everyone! > > Thanks, > > Brian Cooper > Histology Supervisor > Children's Hospital Los Angeles > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > On Sep 9, 2022 2:37 PM, Jay Lundgren via Histonet < > histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu> wrote: > CAUTION: BE CAREFUL WITH THIS MESSAGE* > This email came from outside CHLA. Do not open attachments, click on > links, or respond unless you expected this message and recognize the email > address: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu. > > > Whoever is telling you to use cold molds needs to go back to clown college. > > That is totally, 100%, absolutely, wrong. > > There is some debate as to embed "wet" (cassettes submerged in paraffin > bath) or "dry", and I will accept either, as mostly a matter of personal > preference. BUT, in both of these cases, the molds are hot. > > I have been a Histotech for five decades, trained at Armed Forces Institute > of Pathology (back when that used to mean something) and I have NEVER seen > anyone using cold molds. > > It is a guaranteed way to get cold fractures and cracks in your blocks, or > to pop tissue out when you are cutting, which might be irretrievable. Just > think how much time all those re-embedded blocks are going to save you! > > Also, you won't be able to easily re-position specimens in the block, to > put them "on edge" or "on end", for example. The tissue will instantly > stick to the cold mold. And if you want to re-position it, guess what, > you'll have to warm the mold up to get the tissue unstuck. How's that > (non-existent anyway) time savings now? > > > If you want to prove to whatever jackass suggested this that they are > wrong, get a big stack of every histopathology textbook you can find. > There is nothing in any of them talking about paraffin embedding with cold > molds. > > As a matter of fact, every single textbook will specify molds at the same > temp as paraffin. > > Anyway, it doesn't even make sense, thermodynamically. Heat travels from > hot to cold. Those "cold" molds will be the same temperature as the > paraffin, almost instantly. Did it take a tiny amount of heat out of the > hot paraffin? Yes, but not enough to noticeably cool the blocks faster. The > amount of heat from the paraffin used to warm the mold is trivial compared > to the total heat of the system. That's why cold plates have huge, noisy > refrigeration units. You can't argue with thermodynamics. > > If you are having trouble getting your blocks to release, use mold > release! Viola! > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1vhENcmRngDgLubdLEYMzzWWUK4ILg_WIJNnMutz67Oikk5LSg5SqF6OvSQqMWpr4MIirbF_ExGbIXm9Usdm35LUk87pXYTIvPVdKY5u2dRCdo_Ss-iuZ4nCOa0nPTIpPec8zwvOBcVIE7eM7o-flt9BAIGK0ZOw4K3HOXwNiLmQBnD0hFb9pgrU0ZuPnk5llOYCeJ5b2Pmkp2B9UPlVvxPMI3-iHRILtOB4kPL45PII_yUJnJhFYAryeid5lrITtm-w0KNyKrfJVI0mHy47Niz0TEpxxvl3DoTDmq-umsyN3BucCj2B-aJFqJ-AW3thtXSEk-Nl0NzBBrSxw8cPzSrKsVww7cCLh_krbh7VXKlRiRGF41o3UKk_oEQuHGIEeYlUNLnpLndnkSH0cwR3nNWhq3Cy8hw6ws0Ka8kYRH8_TVttsOh_lQbO4tm6_i-fdNOZxcR_7t-QeE9aW5YP1hg/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statlab.com > I used to think it was > superfluous, but now I consider it compulsory. This is probably the answer > to most of your issues. > > I don't know who is suggesting using cold molds, but I can pretty much > guarantee that it's a pathologist who thinks his slides are taking too > long, and knows nothing about histopathology, or a lab manager, who knows > nothing about histopathology. This next part is directly to them. > > To Whoever Suggested Cold Molds: The answer to getting your slides out > quicker is buying more equipment and hiring more techs, and holding > everyone to standards (30 blocks/hr cutting, 60 blocks/hr embedding). > Making nonsensical, uninformed suggestions only exposes your ignorance. > > Please feel free to show them this reply. > > Sincerely, > > Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) > ___ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > http://secure-web.cisco.com/1sst_F8q-xPNVIECxucZyjCFTGbDl-OZqoDxUAqSsYz8xAR-kLrSYbAJ1I5oMBLXtOcoOm7CKoMBxRIyL2NOyKolfXTBFuF7FYiWgJio8Ku7hKdyCkzHYmQCcne4XS1yWXzU-X4Szp0h5-1FvqjOhMNcN0drsSahjrT25jvMdlloIXxuy0EcG8_c1lTs0zgq-wevTMHkxwJkdLA8z_JJDz3Kloe4S_3DcwNmZjPIfdHx3BZdIiaKRE3Gauws2kOOKMMztVdzAOkyE-MMMfyehmZCrAryOUn-qd-XRsYHczeIAYf57VjR5N7HwW_sydi3gMX7NUNiR0j5ZI8-xq4pfDE5mhnYScwa1RGqaZ3VVqG5jFDIa0Js84cz0UXMeB7PbQRxosMdOPmtRX9ycvNM1S7iijUEFk5smWvT33f1CHH_9qPWBb9KM0q-faJj10SacllYXV1K3egxhFh1DNkihHw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.utsouthwestern.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhistonet > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is > for the sole use of the
Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Thanks for saying this Jay!! I have to say, it's been a while since we've had such a great response on Histonet!! Everything you said is spot on. Happy Friday everyone! Thanks, Brian Cooper Histology Supervisor Children's Hospital Los Angeles Sent from my mobile On Sep 9, 2022 2:37 PM, Jay Lundgren via Histonet wrote: CAUTION: BE CAREFUL WITH THIS MESSAGE* This email came from outside CHLA. Do not open attachments, click on links, or respond unless you expected this message and recognize the email address: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu. Whoever is telling you to use cold molds needs to go back to clown college. That is totally, 100%, absolutely, wrong. There is some debate as to embed "wet" (cassettes submerged in paraffin bath) or "dry", and I will accept either, as mostly a matter of personal preference. BUT, in both of these cases, the molds are hot. I have been a Histotech for five decades, trained at Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (back when that used to mean something) and I have NEVER seen anyone using cold molds. It is a guaranteed way to get cold fractures and cracks in your blocks, or to pop tissue out when you are cutting, which might be irretrievable. Just think how much time all those re-embedded blocks are going to save you! Also, you won't be able to easily re-position specimens in the block, to put them "on edge" or "on end", for example. The tissue will instantly stick to the cold mold. And if you want to re-position it, guess what, you'll have to warm the mold up to get the tissue unstuck. How's that (non-existent anyway) time savings now? If you want to prove to whatever jackass suggested this that they are wrong, get a big stack of every histopathology textbook you can find. There is nothing in any of them talking about paraffin embedding with cold molds. As a matter of fact, every single textbook will specify molds at the same temp as paraffin. Anyway, it doesn't even make sense, thermodynamically. Heat travels from hot to cold. Those "cold" molds will be the same temperature as the paraffin, almost instantly. Did it take a tiny amount of heat out of the hot paraffin? Yes, but not enough to noticeably cool the blocks faster. The amount of heat from the paraffin used to warm the mold is trivial compared to the total heat of the system. That's why cold plates have huge, noisy refrigeration units. You can't argue with thermodynamics. If you are having trouble getting your blocks to release, use mold release! Viola! https://secure-web.cisco.com/1vhENcmRngDgLubdLEYMzzWWUK4ILg_WIJNnMutz67Oikk5LSg5SqF6OvSQqMWpr4MIirbF_ExGbIXm9Usdm35LUk87pXYTIvPVdKY5u2dRCdo_Ss-iuZ4nCOa0nPTIpPec8zwvOBcVIE7eM7o-flt9BAIGK0ZOw4K3HOXwNiLmQBnD0hFb9pgrU0ZuPnk5llOYCeJ5b2Pmkp2B9UPlVvxPMI3-iHRILtOB4kPL45PII_yUJnJhFYAryeid5lrITtm-w0KNyKrfJVI0mHy47Niz0TEpxxvl3DoTDmq-umsyN3BucCj2B-aJFqJ-AW3thtXSEk-Nl0NzBBrSxw8cPzSrKsVww7cCLh_krbh7VXKlRiRGF41o3UKk_oEQuHGIEeYlUNLnpLndnkSH0cwR3nNWhq3Cy8hw6ws0Ka8kYRH8_TVttsOh_lQbO4tm6_i-fdNOZxcR_7t-QeE9aW5YP1hg/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statlab.com I used to think it was superfluous, but now I consider it compulsory. This is probably the answer to most of your issues. I don't know who is suggesting using cold molds, but I can pretty much guarantee that it's a pathologist who thinks his slides are taking too long, and knows nothing about histopathology, or a lab manager, who knows nothing about histopathology. This next part is directly to them. To Whoever Suggested Cold Molds: The answer to getting your slides out quicker is buying more equipment and hiring more techs, and holding everyone to standards (30 blocks/hr cutting, 60 blocks/hr embedding). Making nonsensical, uninformed suggestions only exposes your ignorance. Please feel free to show them this reply. Sincerely, Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://secure-web.cisco.com/1sst_F8q-xPNVIECxucZyjCFTGbDl-OZqoDxUAqSsYz8xAR-kLrSYbAJ1I5oMBLXtOcoOm7CKoMBxRIyL2NOyKolfXTBFuF7FYiWgJio8Ku7hKdyCkzHYmQCcne4XS1yWXzU-X4Szp0h5-1FvqjOhMNcN0drsSahjrT25jvMdlloIXxuy0EcG8_c1lTs0zgq-wevTMHkxwJkdLA8z_JJDz3Kloe4S_3DcwNmZjPIfdHx3BZdIiaKRE3Gauws2kOOKMMztVdzAOkyE-MMMfyehmZCrAryOUn-qd-XRsYHczeIAYf57VjR5N7HwW_sydi3gMX7NUNiR0j5ZI8-xq4pfDE5mhnYScwa1RGqaZ3VVqG5jFDIa0Js84cz0UXMeB7PbQRxosMdOPmtRX9ycvNM1S7iijUEFk5smWvT33f1CHH_9qPWBb9KM0q-faJj10SacllYXV1K3egxhFh1DNkihHw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.utsouthwestern.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhistonet CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or legally privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of this original message. ___ Histonet mailing list
Re: [Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Whoever is telling you to use cold molds needs to go back to clown college. That is totally, 100%, absolutely, wrong. There is some debate as to embed "wet" (cassettes submerged in paraffin bath) or "dry", and I will accept either, as mostly a matter of personal preference. BUT, in both of these cases, the molds are hot. I have been a Histotech for five decades, trained at Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (back when that used to mean something) and I have NEVER seen anyone using cold molds. It is a guaranteed way to get cold fractures and cracks in your blocks, or to pop tissue out when you are cutting, which might be irretrievable. Just think how much time all those re-embedded blocks are going to save you! Also, you won't be able to easily re-position specimens in the block, to put them "on edge" or "on end", for example. The tissue will instantly stick to the cold mold. And if you want to re-position it, guess what, you'll have to warm the mold up to get the tissue unstuck. How's that (non-existent anyway) time savings now? If you want to prove to whatever jackass suggested this that they are wrong, get a big stack of every histopathology textbook you can find. There is nothing in any of them talking about paraffin embedding with cold molds. As a matter of fact, every single textbook will specify molds at the same temp as paraffin. Anyway, it doesn't even make sense, thermodynamically. Heat travels from hot to cold. Those "cold" molds will be the same temperature as the paraffin, almost instantly. Did it take a tiny amount of heat out of the hot paraffin? Yes, but not enough to noticeably cool the blocks faster. The amount of heat from the paraffin used to warm the mold is trivial compared to the total heat of the system. That's why cold plates have huge, noisy refrigeration units. You can't argue with thermodynamics. If you are having trouble getting your blocks to release, use mold release! Viola! https://www.statlab.com. I used to think it was superfluous, but now I consider it compulsory. This is probably the answer to most of your issues. I don't know who is suggesting using cold molds, but I can pretty much guarantee that it's a pathologist who thinks his slides are taking too long, and knows nothing about histopathology, or a lab manager, who knows nothing about histopathology. This next part is directly to them. To Whoever Suggested Cold Molds: The answer to getting your slides out quicker is buying more equipment and hiring more techs, and holding everyone to standards (30 blocks/hr cutting, 60 blocks/hr embedding). Making nonsensical, uninformed suggestions only exposes your ignorance. Please feel free to show them this reply. Sincerely, Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
[Histonet] Molds- cold vs warm
Hello histo geeks, Could you please help me with project and provide me best reasons why using warm molds are better than cold (room temperature) as well as the opposite why not to use room temperature molds during embedding tissues. Reason I am asking that we were suggested to use cold to easily remove paraffin blocks from molds and not to spend time on melting blocks. Thanks in advance, Naira ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
