Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
What really is VMPI ? About mysql licence, if I remember well, you need to pay if you sell your product with mysql in it (in the setup, in the zip, or on the cd...) If you just use it, it's up to the server's admins to install mysql, create the database, tables, and start using your mod. I am creating a plugin that uses mysql (for logs, and some kind of advanced stats) and I will make it public. But I will be up to admins to have mysql installed and working on their servers (or a centralized mysql server if they have many servers, to make overall stats) But due to query time, I need to thread it. Who can help me doing this, if it's even possible ? Damien - Original Message - From: Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:08 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game You can use MySQL with your mod, just make sure you follow their licensing terms. I am not sure where you got that text Adam, my email history shows this as my complete reply: VPMI is our distributed compiling environment. It hasn't been released yet, you should not try to use it. Can you please update the text on that webpage to represent what I really said. The MySQL integration in VMPI has nothing to do with us not releasing it (it needs some love before it is ready for public consumption). - Alfred Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam amckern Mckern Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:38 AM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game the licence issues will fall in if u use mysql (thats the reason why vmpi is not working - www.ammahls.com/cst/vmpi.htm --- Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will almost be a database. I'm creating an RPG mod. So I need to store the inventory with Item IDs to reference from the Master Item List, keep track of Active, Complete, and Abandoned Quests, etc, keep track of the user's stats and stuff like that. Do you have ever thought about using a db like mysql ? Damien ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders My Website http://ammahls.com Lead Programer NightFall This email has been sent from Adam McKern, and is not one of the many spam bots that use my email address. If you receive an email that has not got this signature line, please delate the email, and not respond in any way to it. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
ahh so thats where it comes in VMPI = Valves remote complie code - basicly it sends your map to a complie server, and preforms part of the complie for you --- Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What really is VMPI ? About mysql licence, if I remember well, you need to pay if you sell your product with mysql in it (in the setup, in the zip, or on the cd...) If you just use it, it's up to the server's admins to install mysql, create the database, tables, and start using your mod. I am creating a plugin that uses mysql (for logs, and some kind of advanced stats) and I will make it public. But I will be up to admins to have mysql installed and working on their servers (or a centralized mysql server if they have many servers, to make overall stats) But due to query time, I need to thread it. Who can help me doing this, if it's even possible ? Damien - Original Message - From: Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:08 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game You can use MySQL with your mod, just make sure you follow their licensing terms. I am not sure where you got that text Adam, my email history shows this as my complete reply: VPMI is our distributed compiling environment. It hasn't been released yet, you should not try to use it. Can you please update the text on that webpage to represent what I really said. The MySQL integration in VMPI has nothing to do with us not releasing it (it needs some love before it is ready for public consumption). - Alfred Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam amckern Mckern Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:38 AM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game the licence issues will fall in if u use mysql (thats the reason why vmpi is not working - www.ammahls.com/cst/vmpi.htm --- Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will almost be a database. I'm creating an RPG mod. So I need to store the inventory with Item IDs to reference from the Master Item List, keep track of Active, Complete, and Abandoned Quests, etc, keep track of the user's stats and stuff like that. Do you have ever thought about using a db like mysql ? Damien ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders My Website http://ammahls.com Lead Programer NightFall This email has been sent from Adam McKern, and is not one of the many spam bots that use my email address. If you receive an email that has not got this signature line, please delate the email, and not respond in any way to it. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders My Website http://ammahls.com Lead Programer NightFall This email has been sent from Adam McKern, and is not one of the many spam bots that use my email address. If you receive an email that has not got this signature line, please delate the email, and not respond in any way to it. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
Dear All, First of all I AM NOT A LAWYER. Do not make legal decisions based upon my opinions. Hire a real lawyer for legal opinions. Damien said: What really is VMPI ? Valve's Implementation of Local Area Multicomputer/ Message Passing Interface (LAM/MPI), a network API used in cluster-based parallel computing (especially on Linux clusters): http://www.lam-mpi.org Unfortunately, the license for LAM/MPI seems to be incompatible with the Source SDK Licensing: http://www.lam-mpi.org/community/license.php There is an Open MPI being developed with what looks like they intend to license it with better terms for Valve's (and other commercial vendor's) purposes: http://www.open-mpi.org/ About mysql licence, if I remember well, you need to pay if you sell your product with mysql in it (in the setup, in the zip, or on the cd...) Damien: You are not a lawyer either and you can get people into big trouble by advising them on licenses *from memory*. As it happens, you are *WAY WRONG* about MySQL licensing: http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ which says (in part): In their simplest form, the following are general licensing guidelines: *If your software is licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, then use our GPL licensed version. *If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase a commercial license of MySQL *If you are unsure, we recommend that you buy our cost effective commercial licenses. That is the safest solution. Licensing questions can submitted online for our advice, and we encourage you to refer to the Free Software Foundation or a lawyer as appropriate. -- Michael A. Hobson mike (at) crusader (dash) services (dot) com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
On 8/1/05, Michael A. Hobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, First of all I AM NOT A LAWYER. Do not make legal decisions based upon my opinions. Hire a real lawyer for legal opinions. Same here! :) You are not a lawyer either and you can get people into big trouble by advising them on licenses *from memory*. As it happens, you are *WAY WRONG* about MySQL licensing: http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ which says (in part): In their simplest form, the following are general licensing guidelines: *If your software is licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, then use our GPL licensed version. *If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase a commercial license of MySQL As a non-lawyer (who studied law for a year and then ran like hell) this is unenforcable junk as anything _using_ a database is _not_ a derivative product as is therefore not required to be open source by the GPL. However if MySQL want to carry on like dicks, just avoid them and use postgresql, http://www.postgresql.org it uses BSD license (irrelevant really but avoids nasty MySQL lawyers), is more standards compliant, has better data integrity and less than half the dicks! It also comes with a set of steak knives and a years supply of donuts*. *donuts may be virtual or may have been eaten by the author already Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] Various AI Timers in Core AI functions
Hi, Just learning the AI right now, very fun stuff, I was wondering what the timers are for in most of the core AI functions. in RunAI() there are 2 timers, one for the entire RunAI() function and one for just the PrescheduleThink(), g_AIRunTimer and g_AIPrescheduleThinkTimer respectively. Anyone explain what these are for to an AI newbie? This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by return email if you are not the intended recipient and delete this message. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of FusionPeople Ltd. FusionPeople Ltd may monitor outgoing and incoming emails and other telecommunications on its email and telecommunication systems. === This message has been checked for all known viruses by MessageLabs, The service does not scan any password protected or encrypted attachments. FusionPeople Ltd accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
ugoboy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael A. Hobson Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:28 AM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game Dear All, First of all I AM NOT A LAWYER. Do not make legal decisions based upon my opinions. Hire a real lawyer for legal opinions. Damien said: What really is VMPI ? Valve's Implementation of Local Area Multicomputer/ Message Passing Interface (LAM/MPI), a network API used in cluster-based parallel computing (especially on Linux clusters): http://www.lam-mpi.org Unfortunately, the license for LAM/MPI seems to be incompatible with the Source SDK Licensing: http://www.lam-mpi.org/community/license.php There is an Open MPI being developed with what looks like they intend to license it with better terms for Valve's (and other commercial vendor's) purposes: http://www.open-mpi.org/ About mysql licence, if I remember well, you need to pay if you sell your product with mysql in it (in the setup, in the zip, or on the cd...) Damien: You are not a lawyer either and you can get people into big trouble by advising them on licenses *from memory*. As it happens, you are *WAY WRONG* about MySQL licensing: http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ which says (in part): In their simplest form, the following are general licensing guidelines: *If your software is licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, then use our GPL licensed version. *If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase a commercial license of MySQL *If you are unsure, we recommend that you buy our cost effective commercial licenses. That is the safest solution. Licensing questions can submitted online for our advice, and we encourage you to refer to the Free Software Foundation or a lawyer as appropriate. -- Michael A. Hobson mike (at) crusader (dash) services (dot) com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] Video playback
Hi, this is probably a question that more experienced users have solved repeatedly, but I cannot seem to find it documented, so here goes: I am trying to display pre-rendered video (both in-game and as cutscenes). I assumed that the best way to do this would be to modify the texture at runtime for each decoded frame, but I am not sure how to go about doing this. Could someone please point me in the right direction or tell me another way? Thanks, Lachlan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] AI Pathfinding problem
A suggestion for you nodes; Place them at the very most, 256 units apart. What I like to do when I make my maps is to just put 1 node in the top left corner or something, and then copy. Then do paste special, and then make like 20 copies or something with the x offset set to 256 (makes 20 copies to the right in the top view.) Then select all of those nodes, then copy, then paste special, then set y to -256, so it makes 20 copies going down. Then select all of those nodes in your 20x20 grid and then copy them and then paste-special 1 layer at z with 128 units, but then change all the nodes to ai_node_air, and then copy them all at 128 units apart on the z level. Hope this helps you :) You might also want to select all your ai nodes and then put them into a visgroup so you can hide them when you need to do brushwork. That portal thing in your corner over there looks awesome :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] AI Pathfinding problem
Hi Thanks man, I got it going last night with nodes at about 1024 units apart, group selected in 4's and copied them all over, using much less nodes now, ai_show_connect and others proved very useful in building and debugging the node network. Cheers about the portal, the guy who designed and textured it has some great talent, shame my testmap does not do it any justice. Thanks for the tips! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Lewellen Sent: 02 August 2005 16:41 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] AI Pathfinding problem A suggestion for you nodes; Place them at the very most, 256 units apart. What I like to do when I make my maps is to just put 1 node in the top left corner or something, and then copy. Then do paste special, and then make like 20 copies or something with the x offset set to 256 (makes 20 copies to the right in the top view.) Then select all of those nodes, then copy, then paste special, then set y to -256, so it makes 20 copies going down. Then select all of those nodes in your 20x20 grid and then copy them and then paste-special 1 layer at z with 128 units, but then change all the nodes to ai_node_air, and then copy them all at 128 units apart on the z level. Hope this helps you :) You might also want to select all your ai nodes and then put them into a visgroup so you can hide them when you need to do brushwork. That portal thing in your corner over there looks awesome :) This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by return email if you are not the intended recipient and delete this message. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of FusionPeople Ltd. FusionPeople Ltd may monitor outgoing and incoming emails and other telecommunications on its email and telecommunication systems. === This message has been checked for all known viruses by MessageLabs, The service does not scan any password protected or encrypted attachments. FusionPeople Ltd accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
You are not a lawyer either and you can get people into big trouble by advising them on licenses *from memory*. I know, but one of my friend had Mysql Team on phone last month, and he asked several points about the licence. *If you are unsure, we recommend that you buy our cost effective commercial licenses. That is the safest solution. Licensing questions can submitted online for our advice, and we encourage you to refer to the Free Software Foundation or a lawyer as appropriate. I quote : If you are unsure and I complete : ask people who know since every software can be specific... So what about licence with a web site, an application used widely, a small application... Do you know the price of the mysql licence ? Do you think I have enough money to buy it ? I've called mysql france about the licence : - Since you don't earn money for your software, you don't have to buy the licence This is not the real rule, but it is a possibility - If you distribute your software, you have to distribute it under GPL This is the real idea of mysql - GPL is not a contract, it's just a way of work So if I don't want to pay, I won't. I don't want to discuss about licensing here, this is not the goal of that list. I've made a suggestion for a problem... Now what I think : I'm developping a plugin for CS:S (and other mods soon) and it will use mysql. I will distribute the source code if people ask me... About keeping information inside the game, the use of a database system can impove overall performance when retrieving data. After, the solutions are multiple... Damien ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Video playback
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Procedural_Materials On 8/2/05, Lachlan Gunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, this is probably a question that more experienced users have solved repeatedly, but I cannot seem to find it documented, so here goes: I am trying to display pre-rendered video (both in-game and as cutscenes). I assumed that the best way to do this would be to modify the texture at runtime for each decoded frame, but I am not sure how to go about doing this. Could someone please point me in the right direction or tell me another way? Thanks, Lachlan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- - Ben Davison - http://www.shadow-phoenix.com -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
I'll just pitch in - I just finished threading some MySQL code in a private metamod we run on our servers, so it's definitely possible. Because MySQL calls are stateful, you'll need to use a mutex to control the mysql calls (see man pthread_mutex_create for linux or CreateMutex on the MSDN for Windows) and you'll need to implement seperate threading methods for linux and windows (CreateThread for Windows and most likely pthread_create for Linux). And to anyone thinking of telling me I shouldn't use MySQL in my metamod, it's not distributed and thus I don't need to open source it, according to the GPL. However, as to the licensing debate, this quote from MySQL's licensing policy page (http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/) pretty much sums it up: If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase a commercial license of MySQL. As to the question of whether software that uses a database needs a license for the database: You're right. It doesn't. Provided you know all the details of MySQL's protocol, you can use MySQL without obtaining a license (open source or otherwise) from MySQL, with two caveats - you must not have gained any of the knowledge you need for this from the GPLed MySQL - if you do, then your software is indeed a derivative work, and you must abide by the terms of the DMCA or equivalent... And that's just the code itself, who knows what patent issues there might be. On 8/2/05, Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But due to query time, I need to thread it. Who can help me doing this, if it's even possible ? Damien - Original Message - From: Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:08 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game You can use MySQL with your mod, just make sure you follow their licensing terms. I am not sure where you got that text Adam, my email history shows this as my complete reply: VPMI is our distributed compiling environment. It hasn't been released yet, you should not try to use it. Can you please update the text on that webpage to represent what I really said. The MySQL integration in VMPI has nothing to do with us not releasing it (it needs some love before it is ready for public consumption). - Alfred Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam amckern Mckern Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:38 AM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game the licence issues will fall in if u use mysql (thats the reason why vmpi is not working - www.ammahls.com/cst/vmpi.htm --- Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will almost be a database. I'm creating an RPG mod. So I need to store the inventory with Item IDs to reference from the Master Item List, keep track of Active, Complete, and Abandoned Quests, etc, keep track of the user's stats and stuff like that. Do you have ever thought about using a db like mysql ? Damien ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders My Website http://ammahls.com Lead Programer NightFall This email has been sent from Adam McKern, and is not one of the many spam bots that use my email address. If you receive an email that has not got this signature line, please delate the email, and not respond in any way to it. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
Again the note that no one here is a lawyer, so either get a lawyer or simply don't use software written by arseholes who give mixed messages. On 8/3/05, Predatory Kangaroo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you must not have gained any of the knowledge you need for this from the GPLed MySQL - if you do, then your software is indeed a derivative work, This is rubbish, it's called interoperable and it has nothing to do with being a derivative. Something that uses another application through an interface, published or otherwise, is not a derivative regardless of whether the developer wants you to believe that or not. It's one of myths about the GPL that annoys me, it's not viral to use GPL'd applications in your system, ever, period, unless you MODIFY the GPL'd software and even then ONLY your mods to the GPL'd software are covered by the GPL, NOT the other applications you distribute with it. MySQL simply want to cloud the issue as they wish to make a profit, which is fine, but their position is legally very questionable ... now if only I had the dollars to challenge them ;) DMCA is a red herring in this discussion. Having said that, anyone making free, non-gpl'd software would be stupid, very stupid, to use MySQL instead of postgresql because of this situation. Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
On 8/3/05, Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now what I think : I'm developping a plugin for CS:S (and other mods soon) and it will use mysql. I will distribute the source code if people ask me... Aside from the MySQL Limited GPL stupidity, if you hold that MySQL's interpretation is correct (I don't) then releasing the code is insufficient, you HAVE to GPL your code, which you can't because Valve's license for the SDK is not GPL compatible. You either violate MySQLs interpretation of the GPL and leave yourself open to a law suit from MySQL, or you GPL you code and risk a suit from Valve, or you use PostrgreSQL and don't have to worry. It seems obvious to me which is the most logical choice. Note that I don't think MySQL or Valve would actually bother to sue you ... unless your plugin is super and lots of people use it :) Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
Apologies, that was a bad choice of words on my behalf, but it was 3 AM :) First and foremost, let me assure you that I have no delusions of the GPL - I've followed quite a few GPL violation situations (such as Sveasoft) and am a strong open source advocate. That said, what I should have said in my last message was If you use any of their code (you include their header files, you link to their binaries), then you are subject to the terms of their license. As with everyone else, IANAL, but I know this to be the case from a few things... first and foremost is an article published in Linux Format's sister magazine a few months back on reverse engineering/the DMCA - it mentioned specifically the reasons for clean room reverse engineering something (for example creating a new NTFS driver, open sourced) as opposed to reusing the existing binary (ala Captive). The next point is a real life situation - Microsoft recently released a great deal more information about their Office formats, but to use them you must accept their license and comply to its terms (one of which restricts open source programs from using the extra info). I can't speak as to whether MySQL's licenses are GPL compatible or not, but they're the terms MySQL has set down and so we must comply. P.S. The DMCA might have been a red herring in my message, but there's no mention of interoperability in the GPL - it's in the DMCA :P On 8/3/05, Jeff Fearn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again the note that no one here is a lawyer, so either get a lawyer or simply don't use software written by arseholes who give mixed messages. On 8/3/05, Predatory Kangaroo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you must not have gained any of the knowledge you need for this from the GPLed MySQL - if you do, then your software is indeed a derivative work, This is rubbish, it's called interoperable and it has nothing to do with being a derivative. Something that uses another application through an interface, published or otherwise, is not a derivative regardless of whether the developer wants you to believe that or not. It's one of myths about the GPL that annoys me, it's not viral to use GPL'd applications in your system, ever, period, unless you MODIFY the GPL'd software and even then ONLY your mods to the GPL'd software are covered by the GPL, NOT the other applications you distribute with it. MySQL simply want to cloud the issue as they wish to make a profit, which is fine, but their position is legally very questionable ... now if only I had the dollars to challenge them ;) DMCA is a red herring in this discussion. Having said that, anyone making free, non-gpl'd software would be stupid, very stupid, to use MySQL instead of postgresql because of this situation. Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
On 8/3/05, Predatory Kangaroo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...snip... GPL discussion I disagree with those articles definition of what is legally enforcable as a derivative product. By that kind of definition anything that uses the MS header files is a derivative of Windows, clearly insanity! The MS office stuff is different because it's not GPL or any other kind of open and they don't pretend it is, which say a lot about the MySQL devs to me. Anyways... I can't speak as to whether MySQL's licenses are GPL compatible or not, but they're the terms MySQL has set down and so we must comply. Almost :) You can choose to use a different database, like PostgreSQL, which doesn't have that sort of legal issue. This is my main point, if you use pgsql you don't have to consider such issues where you are distributing free, non-gpl software. Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] Panel input / VGUI context
I'm playing around with the idea of an interactive HUD, and I want the element panels on screen to be able to respond to user input. That's not the heart of the problem though, the problem is actually getting the engine to switch into the VGUI context, where a cursor appears and all mouse and keyboard input is fed to the VGUI system (such as frame has focus). As of right now, the only way I've seen that happen is using a Frame, or more specifically through a popup registered with ISurface::CreatePopup. I'd like to get this behavior without dealing with the popup system but am unsure as to how to work with the surface interface to accomplish what I want. I see some functions such as LockCursor() and UnlockCursor(), but don't know if those are the functions I'm looking for or the proper way to use them. I suspect that one of the Valve folks would know best, but anyone who might know something go ahead and chime in :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
This debate is pretty rediculous. The very idea that somehow using MySQL makes you tied up in some kind of legal space is just mind boggling. Almost like debating the Microsoft Windows EULA. As if you'd dump Windows (as a HLCodder) purely because you don't agree with terms and conditions. Consider that if there were ANY kind of issue with MySQL and code access/rights/use, then a million web sites which use MySQL would be in a bind. A LOT of web sites use MySQL as their root DB. For example like every site running the VBulletin bulletin board software. If this were a real issue, then MySQL would be sitting on a legalistic gold/land mine because of all the web systems running off LAMP (Linux+Apache+MySQL+Perl|PHP). Quoting Jeff Fearn [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/3/05, Predatory Kangaroo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...SNIP SNIP CUT CUT HACK HACK... Almost :) You can choose to use a different database, like PostgreSQL, which doesn't have that sort of legal issue. This is my main point, if you use pgsql you don't have to consider such issues where you are distributing free, non-gpl software. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Panel input / VGUI context
You should use a Frame, that is the base container for rendering and keyboard/mouse focus. Trying to do it manually will just involve a lot of fighting the built in VGUI2 system. - Alfred Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Skyler York Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:44 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlcoders] Panel input / VGUI context I'm playing around with the idea of an interactive HUD, and I want the element panels on screen to be able to respond to user input. That's not the heart of the problem though, the problem is actually getting the engine to switch into the VGUI context, where a cursor appears and all mouse and keyboard input is fed to the VGUI system (such as frame has focus). As of right now, the only way I've seen that happen is using a Frame, or more specifically through a popup registered with ISurface::CreatePopup. I'd like to get this behavior without dealing with the popup system but am unsure as to how to work with the surface interface to accomplish what I want. I see some functions such as LockCursor() and UnlockCursor(), but don't know if those are the functions I'm looking for or the proper way to use them. I suspect that one of the Valve folks would know best, but anyone who might know something go ahead and chime in :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
I thought the keyword was, if you use MySQL in a program that's for commercial use, you have to pay for a license. Isn't commercial when you charge people money to play or download the plug-in/mod and the writer/development team profits off of it. So as long as the mod is freely available, - voogru. -Original Message- From: Jeff Fearn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 6:59 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game On 8/3/05, Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now what I think : I'm developping a plugin for CS:S (and other mods soon) and it will use mysql. I will distribute the source code if people ask me... Aside from the MySQL Limited GPL stupidity, if you hold that MySQL's interpretation is correct (I don't) then releasing the code is insufficient, you HAVE to GPL your code, which you can't because Valve's license for the SDK is not GPL compatible. You either violate MySQLs interpretation of the GPL and leave yourself open to a law suit from MySQL, or you GPL you code and risk a suit from Valve, or you use PostrgreSQL and don't have to worry. It seems obvious to me which is the most logical choice. Note that I don't think MySQL or Valve would actually bother to sue you ... unless your plugin is super and lots of people use it :) Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
Which of course would be against the basic Valve SDK license I imagine - to charge or profit off your mod. So again, not a problem is it? Quoting Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I thought the keyword was, if you use MySQL in a program that's for commercial use, you have to pay for a license. Isn't commercial when you charge people money to play or download the plug-in/mod and the writer/development team profits off of it. So as long as the mod is freely available, - voogru. -Original Message- From: Jeff Fearn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 6:59 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game On 8/3/05, Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now what I think : I'm developping a plugin for CS:S (and other mods soon) and it will use mysql. I will distribute the source code if people ask me... Aside from the MySQL Limited GPL stupidity, if you hold that MySQL's interpretation is correct (I don't) then releasing the code is insufficient, you HAVE to GPL your code, which you can't because Valve's license for the SDK is not GPL compatible. You either violate MySQLs interpretation of the GPL and leave yourself open to a law suit from MySQL, or you GPL you code and risk a suit from Valve, or you use PostrgreSQL and don't have to worry. It seems obvious to me which is the most logical choice. Note that I don't think MySQL or Valve would actually bother to sue you ... unless your plugin is super and lots of people use it :) Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game
No, it's the otherway around. If your program is not GPL then you can't distribute the GPL version of MySQL you need to buy a commercial license. So if you aren't going to distribute MySQL there is no problem with _any_ program you distribute, and if you write GPL stuff you can distribute GPL MySQL. It's only if you want to distribute MySQL with your program you run in to this problem. Jeff On 8/3/05, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought the keyword was, if you use MySQL in a program that's for commercial use, you have to pay for a license. Isn't commercial when you charge people money to play or download the plug-in/mod and the writer/development team profits off of it. So as long as the mod is freely available, - voogru. -Original Message- From: Jeff Fearn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 6:59 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Keeping track of information inside the game On 8/3/05, Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now what I think : I'm developping a plugin for CS:S (and other mods soon) and it will use mysql. I will distribute the source code if people ask me... Aside from the MySQL Limited GPL stupidity, if you hold that MySQL's interpretation is correct (I don't) then releasing the code is insufficient, you HAVE to GPL your code, which you can't because Valve's license for the SDK is not GPL compatible. You either violate MySQLs interpretation of the GPL and leave yourself open to a law suit from MySQL, or you GPL you code and risk a suit from Valve, or you use PostrgreSQL and don't have to worry. It seems obvious to me which is the most logical choice. Note that I don't think MySQL or Valve would actually bother to sue you ... unless your plugin is super and lots of people use it :) Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
