RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences

2002-01-23 Thread Leon Hartwig

The only circumstance in which this is handled in 8 bits is network
transmission, which can be changed by modifying delta.lst.  That's what
it's there for.  Surprise or no surprise, it's not hard coded in the
engine and the engine will happily handle as many sequences as you like.
You should be able to witness this personally within a few days; DoD 2.0
will have  256 sequences.


 -Original Message-
 From: David Flor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:17 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences
 
 
 I believe pev-sequence is handled as 8 bits, or maximum of 
 256. Also,
 since I see that inside studiomdl.exe it uses a hard-coded array, I
 wouldn't be surprised if a limitation like that does exist in 
 the engine
 because of coding practices. As much as I have the utmost 
 confidence and
 trust in the Valve development team, there are many bad practices and
 programming no-nos that are common to every programmer... I use fixed
 length arrays without range checking sometimes; the horror! :)
 
 And, Pat, there are 32 maximum weapons, not 35. 32x4 = 128. ;)
 
 Besides, 256 animations is almost ungodly, isn't it? Your 
 animator must
 be going crazy... We had well over 77 animations in our mod 
 (I think at
 last count we had over 160 of them).


attachment: winmail.dat

RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences

2002-01-23 Thread Ken Birdwell

Leon is mostly correct, though the engine IS limited to only supporting
4,294,967,296 sequences. :P

In any case, the whole business of needing the sequence to line up is ONLY
if you're displaying a different model on the client than the one the server
is using.  Since HL and TFC allow clients to replace models locally, it's
important to mention that for authoring purposes the sequences are
referenced on the client by index number, not animation name (which is only
looked at on the server).

If you're always using the SAME model on both the client and server for any
given player, then they automatically line up (since they're the same, duh)
and you can ignore the all models must have the same animations, etc. etc.
issue, cause, well, they're the same on both.

-Original Message-
From: Leon Hartwig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences


The only circumstance in which this is handled in 8 bits is network
transmission, which can be changed by modifying delta.lst.  That's what
it's there for.  Surprise or no surprise, it's not hard coded in the
engine and the engine will happily handle as many sequences as you like.
You should be able to witness this personally within a few days; DoD 2.0
will have  256 sequences.


 -Original Message-
 From: David Flor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:17 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences
 
 
 I believe pev-sequence is handled as 8 bits, or maximum of 
 256. Also,
 since I see that inside studiomdl.exe it uses a hard-coded array, I
 wouldn't be surprised if a limitation like that does exist in 
 the engine
 because of coding practices. As much as I have the utmost 
 confidence and
 trust in the Valve development team, there are many bad practices and
 programming no-nos that are common to every programmer... I use fixed
 length arrays without range checking sometimes; the horror! :)
 
 And, Pat, there are 32 maximum weapons, not 35. 32x4 = 128. ;)
 
 Besides, 256 animations is almost ungodly, isn't it? Your 
 animator must
 be going crazy... We had well over 77 animations in our mod 
 (I think at
 last count we had over 160 of them).

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RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences

2002-01-23 Thread Adrian Finol

 One thing to remember is that any transformation applied to the model
client side has to be duplicated on the server in order to mantain hit
detection in order.

 We had this problem with CS, where the client was doing all the blendings (
9 to be exact ) while the server had no idea about what was going on. Hence
the old CS hitbox problem.


-Original Message-
From: Ken Birdwell
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Sent: 1/23/02 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences

Leon is mostly correct, though the engine IS limited to only supporting
4,294,967,296 sequences. :P

In any case, the whole business of needing the sequence to line up is
ONLY
if you're displaying a different model on the client than the one the
server
is using.  Since HL and TFC allow clients to replace models locally,
it's
important to mention that for authoring purposes the sequences are
referenced on the client by index number, not animation name (which is
only
looked at on the server).

If you're always using the SAME model on both the client and server for
any
given player, then they automatically line up (since they're the same,
duh)
and you can ignore the all models must have the same animations, etc.
etc.
issue, cause, well, they're the same on both.

-Original Message-
From: Leon Hartwig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences


The only circumstance in which this is handled in 8 bits is network
transmission, which can be changed by modifying delta.lst.  That's what
it's there for.  Surprise or no surprise, it's not hard coded in the
engine and the engine will happily handle as many sequences as you like.
You should be able to witness this personally within a few days; DoD 2.0
will have  256 sequences.


 -Original Message-
 From: David Flor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:17 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences
 
 
 I believe pev-sequence is handled as 8 bits, or maximum of 
 256. Also,
 since I see that inside studiomdl.exe it uses a hard-coded array, I
 wouldn't be surprised if a limitation like that does exist in 
 the engine
 because of coding practices. As much as I have the utmost 
 confidence and
 trust in the Valve development team, there are many bad practices and
 programming no-nos that are common to every programmer... I use fixed
 length arrays without range checking sometimes; the horror! :)
 
 And, Pat, there are 32 maximum weapons, not 35. 32x4 = 128. ;)
 
 Besides, 256 animations is almost ungodly, isn't it? Your 
 animator must
 be going crazy... We had well over 77 animations in our mod 
 (I think at
 last count we had over 160 of them).

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please visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] Models and sequences

2002-01-22 Thread Pat Magnan

 I have been informed that is the limit,
 although I can see no reason for that belief in the code. A class 
would have
-- SNIP --

Umm.. Huh? engine/studio.h says this:

#define MAXSTUDIOSEQUENCES  256 // total animation sequences

It would seem that the limit is 256 rather than 77.. However, there are 
only 77 sequences in the TFC models that I've looked at. Perhaps 
someone was assuming this is the limit because we don't have a 
character model with more??

If you're defining all new weapons, i'm sure you can pare down the ones 
you don't need from the DM/TFC models to have quite a bit of room for 
animations. You need 4 per model as I see it ref_aim_weapon, 
ref_shoot_weapon, crouch_aim_weapon, crouch_shoot_weapon. 35 x 4 = 140, 
plus all the movement ones (walk, run, swim, death etc -- maybe 20 per 
model), should fall below 256?

Also, do you always need a new anim for every weapon? If you're making 
a broadsword, the player's attacks with that would look very similar to 
using an axe for example. You shouldn't need one anim per weapon. Just 
group your weapons into logical groups (2handed, polearm, 
onehandedsword, or whatever is appropriate for your mod). Then, in your 
DefaultDeploy, just send the appropriate value for the last parameter 
(i.e. 2handed or whatever, not the weapon name itself). That should 
save you and the modellers a bunch of work, not to mention the fact 
that you should be able to do all that within 77 animations, if that is 
really the limit...



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Re: [hlcoders] Models and sequences

2002-01-22 Thread Pat Magnan

 I have been informed that is the limit,
 although I can see no reason for that belief in the code. A class 
would have
-- SNIP --

Umm.. Huh? engine/studio.h says this:

#define MAXSTUDIOSEQUENCES  256 // total animation sequences

It would seem that the limit is 256 rather than 77.. However, there are 
only 77 sequences in the TFC models that I've looked at. Perhaps 
someone was assuming this is the limit because we don't have a 
character model with more??

If you're defining all new weapons, i'm sure you can pare down the ones 
you don't need from the DM/TFC models to have quite a bit of room for 
animations. You need 4 per model as I see it ref_aim_weapon, 
ref_shoot_weapon, crouch_aim_weapon, crouch_shoot_weapon. 35 x 4 = 140, 
plus all the movement ones (walk, run, swim, death etc -- maybe 20 per 
model), should fall below 256?

Also, do you always need a new anim for every weapon? If you're making 
a broadsword, the player's attacks with that would look very similar to 
using an axe for example. You shouldn't need one anim per weapon. Just 
group your weapons into logical groups (2handed, polearm, 
onehandedsword, or whatever is appropriate for your mod). Then, in your 
DefaultDeploy, just send the appropriate value for the last parameter 
(i.e. 2handed or whatever, not the weapon name itself). That should 
save you and the modellers a bunch of work, not to mention the fact 
that you should be able to do all that within 77 animations, if that is 
really the limit...



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RE: [hlcoders] Models and sequences

2002-01-22 Thread Leon Hartwig

The only place that MAXSTUDIOSEQUENCES limit is used is in the studiomdl
code ($Src/utils/studiomdl), which can be changed if that's the tool you
use to compile models.  There is no limit on the number of sequences the
engine itself is capable of using.  DoD 2.0, which will be released
soon, has player models with more than 255 sequences.


 -Original Message-
 From: Pat Magnan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:04 AM
 
 
  I have been informed that is the limit,
  although I can see no reason for that belief in the code. A class 
 would have
 -- SNIP --
 
 Umm.. Huh? engine/studio.h says this:
 
 #define MAXSTUDIOSEQUENCES256 // total animation sequences
 
 It would seem that the limit is 256 rather than 77.. However, 
 there are 
 only 77 sequences in the TFC models that I've looked at. Perhaps 
 someone was assuming this is the limit because we don't have a 
 character model with more??
 
 If you're defining all new weapons, i'm sure you can pare 
 down the ones 
 you don't need from the DM/TFC models to have quite a bit of room for 
 animations. You need 4 per model as I see it ref_aim_weapon, 
 ref_shoot_weapon, crouch_aim_weapon, crouch_shoot_weapon. 35 
 x 4 = 140, 
 plus all the movement ones (walk, run, swim, death etc -- 
 maybe 20 per 
 model), should fall below 256?
 
 Also, do you always need a new anim for every weapon? If 
 you're making 
 a broadsword, the player's attacks with that would look very 
 similar to 
 using an axe for example. You shouldn't need one anim per 
 weapon. Just 
 group your weapons into logical groups (2handed, polearm, 
 onehandedsword, or whatever is appropriate for your mod). 
 Then, in your 
 DefaultDeploy, just send the appropriate value for the last parameter 
 (i.e. 2handed or whatever, not the weapon name itself). That should 
 save you and the modellers a bunch of work, not to mention the fact 
 that you should be able to do all that within 77 animations, 
 if that is 
 really the limit...


attachment: winmail.dat