But it's true though, it's not that we're unwilling to listen, there are just facts to work with. The fact is, community servers have suffered, the competitive community has suffered stating there aren't enough people around anymore, people complain about the quality of players / gameplay on Valve servers all the time, and Fletcher Dunn has even told us in here that he thinks QP may be bad to new players.
On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 8:33 PM, <hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com> wrote: > Send hlds mailing list submissions to > hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > hlds-ow...@list.valvesoftware.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of hlds digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Optional TF2 update released (Phillip Vector) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2015 17:31:40 -0700 > From: Phillip Vector <t...@mostdeadlygame.com> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released > Message-ID: > <CANmAeAzufg5GeHwFJy=TS6YaH= > tvsc64jtcsbip3x7x-26r...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > >I honestly find it comical that people think those servers are a good > representation of what the game should be (or, frankly, are any fun at > all). > > and this is why I rarely post here. Because most people here are not > willing to listen to the other side of things and meet in the middle. > Insulting people who like the Valve servers is not the way to go if you are > wanting to work with Valve to get some compromise going. > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 5:22 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I also don't think the phrase "Community" and "Custom" are necessarily > > interchangeable. There are plenty of community servers out there with > 100% > > stock settings, and I certainly wouldn't call them "custom". > > > > Further - I don't anyone who played TF2 before quickplay came along can > > say that Valve's servers are the way the game was "meant to be played". > All > > I've ever seen on a Valve server (aside from all the Mic spam, racism, > > general harassment, grieifing, hacking, and abuse of the voting tools), > was > > an just about every single player ignoring the "team" aspect of the game > - > > when they were playing at all. > > > > I honestly find it comical that people think those servers are a good > > representation of what the game should be (or, frankly, are any fun at > all). > > > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Cats From Above < > spotsfromab...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> What you just said implies that *every *community server provides a > >> modified game-play experience, which is not only a dubious claim but one > >> that almost certainly stems from a distinct level of benightedness. > >> > >> There are community servers out there, many of them, which offer a > >> vanilla experience in aspects of game-play. My question to you is why > >> should those servers be treated as second-class citizens to Valve > servers > >> by "default". > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Phillip Vector <t...@mostdeadlygame.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> >If we're really talking about player choice, here, then you have to > >>> remove the "default effect > >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_effect_(psychology)>" that > gives > >>> one group of server preferential treatment over another to achieve > "true" > >>> player choice. > >>> > >>> I'm all for player choice. If I want to play in a community server, I > >>> should be able to. But I also feel that Valve made a game and this > game was > >>> balanced (I know the arguments against that it's balanced, but let's > say > >>> that it's balanced as Valve wants it balanced) for 24 people. Why > shouldn't > >>> the default game be the default choice? When you play Skyrim, do you > have > >>> mods auto loaded that you didn't pick because it's community created? > When > >>> you play any other multiplayer game on a server, is the non-base game > ever > >>> selected as default? > >>> > >>> If not, then why should TF2 default to Custom? > >>> > >>> I know you aren't saying it should, but others here have. They want > >>> Community servers to be the first thing that players see and IMHO, the > >>> default game should be the first thing. Once they see that, then if > they > >>> want to explore, they can. Despite what people say that new players > can't > >>> unclick a checkbox. > >>> > >>> The interface being passed around looks like a good compromise as long > >>> as when you select Community for the first time, a little warning > shows up > >>> saying that the game they are entering is not the standard game and > can be > >>> modified so people know what is going on. > >>> > >>> But yeah. The default should be ... well... the default. > >>> > >>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 4:53 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I don't have a vendetta against community servers. I just dislike when > >>>>> community server owners think they are gods gift to TF2 and demand > special > >>>>> treatment to the determent of those who want to play vanilla TF2. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I'm not looking for special treatment. I'd be satisfied with > >>>> "equitable" treatment. > >>>> > >>>> If we're really talking about player choice, here, then you have to > >>>> remove the "default effect > >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_effect_(psychology)>" that > >>>> gives one group of server preferential treatment over another to > achieve > >>>> "true" player choice. > >>>> > >>>> For example, I've often heard the argument that "if players want > >>>> community servers in quickplay, they can change the settings", and if > that > >>>> is true - shouldn't the inverse also be true? If it is, than why give > any > >>>> one group default preference over another? > >>>> > >>>> Why not simply allow the players to decide? > >>>> > >>>> ...and I'm sure there are plenty of arguments about servers plastered > >>>> with Pinion ads, or servers selling premium BS - but valve already > dealt > >>>> with all of that, so both of those arguments are moot. > >>>> > >>>> At any rate, I honestly don't think Community can only flourish in the > >>>> absence of Valve's servers, and vice versa. There simply needs to be > >>>> options presented which gives both equal exposure to the players, and > let's > >>>> them decide (without artificially steering them towards one or > another). > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 7:38 PM, Phillip Vector < > t...@mostdeadlygame.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> >Logging cl_connectmethod > >>>>> > >>>>> That tells you for every server that you own. Not every server in > >>>>> existence. Your statement of "The majority of players still click > >>>>> play now instead of using the server browser" is missing something. > It > >>>>> should say, "The majority of players ON MY SERVERS". > >>>>> > >>>>> Of course, we don't have proof of this even on your own server, but > >>>>> I'm willing to accept that those who connect to your servers do so > via the > >>>>> "Play now" button. > >>>>> > >>>>> You still can't say that the majority of players though since you > >>>>> don't have that data. > >>>>> > >>>>> >I'm curious as to why you have a vendetta against community servers. > >>>>> > >>>>> Nice strawman there. I don't have a vendetta against community > >>>>> servers. I just dislike when community server owners think they are > gods > >>>>> gift to TF2 and demand special treatment to the determent of those > who want > >>>>> to play vanilla TF2. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Robert Paulson < > thepauls...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Logging cl_connectmethod. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Why do you presume that I am pulling it from my ass? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm curious as to why you have a vendetta against community servers. > >>>>>> Did you get put on saigns and couldn't figure out how to type > "valve" in > >>>>>> server browser, so you are resorting to flaming the server owners > here? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Phillip Vector < > >>>>>> t...@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> >The majority of players still click play now instead of using the > >>>>>>> server browser so removing valve servers from the browser list > probably > >>>>>>> does very little for your own servers. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Please tell me how you managed to get access to this data. > Presuming > >>>>>>> you aren't pulling it from your ass of course. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Robert Paulson < > >>>>>>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Are you all really surprised by this? Valve doesn't care about > >>>>>>>> community servers anymore. The moment 1 person complains that > they couldn't > >>>>>>>> wait 15 seconds for quickplay, it gets removed. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Anyway you are all acting like half life 3 was announced. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The majority of players still click play now instead of using the > >>>>>>>> server browser so removing valve servers from the browser list > probably > >>>>>>>> does very little for your own servers. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < > >>>>>>>> proph...@sticed.org> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Endless waves of communities explaining how quickplay (and other > >>>>>>>>> changes ofc) destroys communities, nothing happens. > >>>>>>>>> Two people on the mailing list moan about valve servers being > >>>>>>>>> excluded from the list, instantfix. GJ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 04.07.2015 23:32, Kevin C wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> You have got to be kidding me. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/tAmWXj6.png wink wink nudge nudge > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2015 5:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> - Temporarily reverted Valve official quickplay and matchmaking > >>>>>>>>>>> servers not being listed in the server browser while we look > into this > >>>>>>>>>>> further > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20150704/137ea29a/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > End of hlds Digest, Vol 51, Issue 38 > ************************************ > -- *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* Web Designer / Artist / Writer Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/
_______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
