Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
On 25/01/2014 23:53, Bottiger wrote: You rather asinine tags We don't have any tags like that. Rather typical of you to make false claims, unfortunately some here probably take your asinine postings seriously. Ah my mistake, I thought you were lotus. Apologies. You can't have it both ways, either your servers are so much better and This change does not allow community servers to fairly compete with Valve servers when they get all the new players. They don't get all the new players I found and played on numerous servers years before quickplay was added. There have been people on the list in the past who have tried to give the impression that using the server browser is evidence of being gifted and talented, let's not go down that path again. But TBH, if you want a server that's worth playing on you don't really want players that can't fathom how to find and connect to servers - and you probably don't really want new players that not only can't play but don't even know where to begin playing. Valve have always taken these via quickplay, even before the checkbox, because they weighted the joining based upon hours in the game, and the reputation of Valve's servers has suffered as a result - i.e even the weakest players will still express the idea that Valve servers are full of noobs - not entirely true (because a fair number of people join them directly and have significant time in the game) but not entirely false either - clearly Valve's weighting created servers full of people who cannot play - and it still is doing. But, you could do a ton of things to improve skial servers. At least the few I've played on. e.g much of the time your 2fort servers are full of people having parties in the sewers, red and blu together, and not even playing. But I suppose you only care how many people you have connected and decide, as mister mckay is trying to in the other post that if someone connects they think it's good. Wrong. I've played on your servers a lot and, without wanting a big long argument about it, I think they suck. The saving grace you have is, most of the other servers suck most of the time too. What you can do about that - probably nothing. The servers suck or are good because of the players, not because of anything you do or don't do. I play for that small percentage of the time when you get a decent round - and it's getting a smaller and smaller percentage - because Valve redesigned the game to be an item collecting one instead of a class-based FPS. I play on Valve servers (when they are around, which is often not the case, hence why I end up connecting to servers that suck for a few weeks) mostly because the vanilla round times mean, if you hop from server to server, you get an actual game of TF2. 24 people (well, minus the spies and snipers) all trying to cap the intelligence or stop the other team doing it, until the team I am on wins. Or cap the point in koth, or whatever the objective is. I tend to play CTF because given a pub community where half the server aren't interested, you can at least still play CTF, the other game modes don't work well if people don't play. The worst thing about the vanilla game is the dumb scrambling at 2-0, but there are no 3rd party servers that fix that, they nearly all make it worse with ill thought out plugins. But I digress, tl;dr, there's nothing stopping playing from finding and connecting to your servers as before and, if Valve's servers are full of new players, that's exactly what they will do - my advice would be, make your servers somewhere where it's worth playing TF2 and don't assume that because someone plays on your server they must think it's great - 90% of what makes a server good or bad is down to who else is on it, but the 10% most server admins get wrong imo - it's just they all suck at it (because they copy each other) -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
On 26/01/2014 00:16, Doctor McKay wrote: If you're going to accuse someone I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. , at least accuse the right person. Lotus is the community that has the LIVE NUDES! tag not, Skial. At the same time, why on Earth do you care? Are they stealing traffic from your own live nude servers? It was a joke. I am a bit dismayed because my skial joke in response to the same quote would have probably been better. Joining *and continuing to play on* a server is a vote for that server. No it isn't. As I said in my other reply. I've played on pretty much every name server you can mention that has a presence in the UK or EU - skial, lotus, multiplay, saigns, valve, etc etc etc. I've connected to them directly and I've connected to them more than once and that is not because I think they do things well or are good. Not by a long way. They nearly all suck in various different ways. Some more than others. I notice Valve have got many of you running servers that accept quickplay players. In doing that many have removed a fair amount of things that made their servers really suck. So if you're sat there counting how many players you have thinking you must be doing something great, I'd reassess that. TF2 is the great thing - and if you're getting Quickplay players that's often because of Valve's idea to stop the game sucking. Servers get away with it because (A) How good a server is, is down to the people on it, not the admin which means throughout the day a server can go from great to completely rubbish, all out of the admin's control. and (B) Because if everyone sucks, there's nowhere better for anyone to go anyway. Sometimes you play for an hour shooting a few people just to mess around, most of the faults on the server cease to matter but counting page hits on a website or joiners on a server as votes of confidence is a mistake. You can guarantee if one of you has an idea to make your servers suck a bit more than the others, the others will soon copy it. Thus ensuring you won't become better than the others even if they try to help you by getting worse. You clearly don't understand how a default works. As Bottiger said, this is the same thing that happened with IE in the earlier days of the Web. No it isn't, it's not the same at all. For one thing, the reason people stopped using netscape was because it became a bloated buggy mess. Netscape cried, and eventually started writing an open source version, which was a bloated buggy mess too. Eventually someone with half a brain cell at netscape released firefox (albeit it wasn't called firefox at first) that was less bloated and people actually started to like it, rather than just pretending to because they still spelled MS like M$, and it's grown from there. Similarly, Chrome appeared (thanks to webkit) and has grown because it's a fast, lightweight browser and perhaps because they were rather intelligent thinking about how to let people install and update it without needing to be administrator so maybe they got onto a few work PCs they wouldn't have otherwise. For all the fuss made about antitrust this and that, the reason people stopped using IE was because it sucked and there were years of headline breaking security issues in it. But mostly because the alternatives got their act together. That said, I do accept that many new players may click and join a server asap, and will use the 'official servers' box checked. But, firstly, I don't see that as any different from Valve looking at the number of hours someone has played and putting them on one of their servers which they've done for a long time afaiaa and secondly, I don't accept that gamers won't explore any and all options that are in the game. Look at the cardiac arrhythmia's suffered on a forum if a new game fails to have a setting for every possible graphical possibility Ewww. it's a console port...I can't disable reflective ambient occluded shading! - this is hardly indicative of an audience who only ever use defaults is it? PC gamers will explore what TF2 has to offer, they won't just play koth on valve servers if that happens to be the default if you don't read or select anything else. Plus people, especially young people, experience games in a social context - i.e their friends play and tell them about it and they learn about other modes and alternatives that way too. Perhaps you should try making friends with the community. But, you have to offer these people something, otherwise I can't really see you have a point anyway - and I mean something the players care about, not something you think makes it better and maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm the only person connecting to all these servers and thinking well I play here sometimes, but it sucks, but if I'm not, perhaps you shouldn't take your player base for granted and assume their mere presence means your servers are good. -- Dan ___
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
You made a false accusation without any kind of reasoning? I've never said or hinted I was affiliated with Lotus. Your other statements have also been completely baseless. e.g much of the time your 2fort servers are full of people having parties in the sewers, red and blu together, and not even playing. Valve servers aren't immune from this and we ban friendlies. The worst thing about the vanilla game is the dumb scrambling at 2-0 We don't scramble at 2 wins in a row. And I have never heard of anyone but you complain about this. From what I can see you have some odd complaints and you seem to think everyone else has the same problems you have. Valve have always taken these via quickplay, even before the checkbox, because they weighted the joining based upon hours in the game Wrong again. They used to have an exclusive bonus but this was removed a while ago as stated by Valve on this very mailing list. But I suppose you only care how many people you have connected and decide, as mister mckay is trying to in the other post that if someone connects they think it's good. What is the alternative? Some rating moderated by you? Is it impossible for you to grasp that most people might like something you don't? There have been people on the list in the past who have tried to give the impression that using the server browser is evidence of being gifted and talented, let's not go down that path again. You are wrong about this just like the other things you pretend to be an expert about. The only evidence you have offered sums up to: I did it so everyone else can too. Most people have the mental capacity to use the TF2 browser just like most people had the ability to use superior browsers when IE6 had the most users for a decade. It isn't about mental capacity, this is an awareness problem that Valve made by hiding unofficial servers. Valve has forgotten that some of the server owners here, at least those of us who bought the game, are also their customers. When TF2 came out there was an expectation that you can host your own server and be equally accessible to ALL players, not just a few people who click on a button tucked under 2 full-sized quickplay buttons. The same kind of expectation everyone else here has that TF2 won't became pay-to-win. A massive change like this should only be done in new games like CS:GO where people know what they are getting into before investing thousands of dollars and hours. On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 4:55 PM, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 25/01/2014 23:53, Bottiger wrote: You rather asinine tags We don't have any tags like that. Rather typical of you to make false claims, unfortunately some here probably take your asinine postings seriously. Ah my mistake, I thought you were lotus. Apologies. You can't have it both ways, either your servers are so much better and This change does not allow community servers to fairly compete with Valve servers when they get all the new players. They don't get all the new players I found and played on numerous servers years before quickplay was added. There have been people on the list in the past who have tried to give the impression that using the server browser is evidence of being gifted and talented, let's not go down that path again. But TBH, if you want a server that's worth playing on you don't really want players that can't fathom how to find and connect to servers - and you probably don't really want new players that not only can't play but don't even know where to begin playing. Valve have always taken these via quickplay, even before the checkbox, because they weighted the joining based upon hours in the game, and the reputation of Valve's servers has suffered as a result - i.e even the weakest players will still express the idea that Valve servers are full of noobs - not entirely true (because a fair number of people join them directly and have significant time in the game) but not entirely false either - clearly Valve's weighting created servers full of people who cannot play - and it still is doing. But, you could do a ton of things to improve skial servers. At least the few I've played on. e.g much of the time your 2fort servers are full of people having parties in the sewers, red and blu together, and not even playing. But I suppose you only care how many people you have connected and decide, as mister mckay is trying to in the other post that if someone connects they think it's good. Wrong. I've played on your servers a lot and, without wanting a big long argument about it, I think they suck. The saving grace you have is, most of the other servers suck most of the time too. What you can do about that - probably nothing. The servers suck or are good because of the players, not because of anything you do or don't do. I play for that small percentage of the time when you get a decent round - and it's getting a smaller and smaller percentage - because
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
On 28/01/2014 03:28, Bottiger wrote: You made a false accusation without any kind of reasoning? I've never said or hinted I was affiliated with Lotus. Your other statements have also been completely baseless. Well, no, I made a joke because I mistook you for one set of people who run a bunch of servers instead of another bunch. Mainly because the fake doctor said Bottiger: I have nothing against you or Lotus when you started crying about being put in a list. Which, now, it's clear meant I've nothing against skial or lotus but it could be interpreted as saying I've nothing against you or your company to someone involved with that company, yes? Anyway I apologised. Take or leave it, but get over it. I'm not sure exactly what accusation you believe was made? Is it against the law to use the word nudes where you live or something? Will you end up on the run falsely accused of using the word nudes, Bottiger had to flee into the night to hide...would he clear his name... I look forward to seeing the movie. I love a good melodrama. The only evidence you have offered sums up to: I did it so everyone else can too. Sheesh. I wasn't the only one playing TF2. I wasn't on empty servers. How do you think the other players connected before quickplay? The evidence is and was obvious. Millions of people played the game and joined servers using the browser before quickplay existed - and they do the same in myriad other games that don't have a quickplay feature too. And they still do it today, after quickplay. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
I remember when people used the browser, when it was the _only_ way to find a server. Seriously though just stop responding to this guy he feeds on attention. On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:49 PM, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 28/01/2014 03:28, Bottiger wrote: You made a false accusation without any kind of reasoning? I've never said or hinted I was affiliated with Lotus. Your other statements have also been completely baseless. Well, no, I made a joke because I mistook you for one set of people who run a bunch of servers instead of another bunch. Mainly because the fake doctor said Bottiger: I have nothing against you or Lotus when you started crying about being put in a list. Which, now, it's clear meant I've nothing against skial or lotus but it could be interpreted as saying I've nothing against you or your company to someone involved with that company, yes? Anyway I apologised. Take or leave it, but get over it. I'm not sure exactly what accusation you believe was made? Is it against the law to use the word nudes where you live or something? Will you end up on the run falsely accused of using the word nudes, Bottiger had to flee into the night to hide...would he clear his name... I look forward to seeing the movie. I love a good melodrama. The only evidence you have offered sums up to: I did it so everyone else can too. Sheesh. I wasn't the only one playing TF2. I wasn't on empty servers. How do you think the other players connected before quickplay? The evidence is and was obvious. Millions of people played the game and joined servers using the browser before quickplay existed - and they do the same in myriad other games that don't have a quickplay feature too. And they still do it today, after quickplay. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
