Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Google Code In wrap up

[D. Joe]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:50:44PM +, D. Joe wrote:
> 
> Our FOSS program at RIT has a Telegram bridge to its IRC channel:
> 
>  irc://chat.freenode.net/#interlock

Sorry, that should be

  irc://chat.freenode.net/#rit-foss

(and I should have sent this correction from the proper address the first
time, so apologies for duplicates anyone else might see)

-- 
Joe   On ceding power to tech companies: http://xkcd.com/1118/
man screen | grep -A2 weird
  A weird imagination is most useful to gain full advantage of
  all the features.

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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Google Code In wrap up

[D. Joe]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:41:07PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >> Regarding a possible move from IRC to Slack, or Gitter, or something 
> >> else as suggested by Ignacio, I wonder that we could just upgrade 
> >> http://chat.sugarlabs.org from qwebchat to http://demo.shout-irc.com 
> >> :)

As a web client that looks ok. 

The main driver I've seen in the move to things other than IRC seems to be a
usable mobile interface with decent support for catching clients up to the
state of the conversation in the face of the intermittent connectivity.

Bouncers are just too fiddly, too high a barrier for many people to bother
with.  I say this as a longtime user of ssh+[screen|tmux]+irssi (which I am
including, somewhat inexactly, into the same broad category as bouncers) so
it's my acknowledging others' experience, as a possible limit to our
outreach, not my own preference.

The way I learned how to use IRC I have to consider possibly being what
Sumana Harihareswara (using Betsy Leondar-Wright's term) calls an
"inessential weirdness":

 
https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/inessential-weirdnesses-in-free-software/

 
https://www.harihareswara.net/libreplanet-2016-inessential-weirdnesses-in-free-software.txt

That said, I continue to look to bridges of various kinds for the ability to
continue to use IRC this way without requiring others to make a Hobson's
choice about talking to me using *some* kind of instant messaging.  And so,
on to the details ...

> Quoting Walter Bender (2017-01-17 22:57:22)
> > There is also matrix.org, which is FOSS AFAIK and seems to let one 
> > integrate irc with other channels people may prefer. I suggest a few 
> > passionate community members give some of these systems a test-drive 
> > and then convince us old-timers that we ought to learn some new 
> > tricks.
> 
> The OFTC.net irc channel #debian-in where I hang out recently did 
> several tests with bridging multiple chat systems - irc and Jabber and 
> matrix.org.
> 
> Old-timers like me got frustrated when a bridge was setup where Jabber 
> users appeared in irc not as individual users but as a bot echoing 
> messages from a Jabber room. 
[...]
> Another bridge between irc and matrix.org was tested, better but now 
> each participant had duplicate nicks, with the matrix.org connection 
> having a "[m]" suffix.
> 
> Neither of those to me annoying bridges was setup by me so I don't know 
> the details of the software used.  I can ask, if really interested.

Our hackerspace has been using some Slack integration with our IRC channel
for some time now:

 irc://chat.freenode.net/#interlock

I find the lack of transparency beyond the bridge to be very annoying, too,
and I have not been using the Slack side of it, given the various
freedom-impacting infelicities of Slack.

Our FOSS program at RIT has a Telegram bridge to its IRC channel:

 irc://chat.freenode.net/#interlock

It suffers a similar lack of transparency across the bridge, and because it
is also not end-to-end free (the Telegram server is not free), I've not been
using the Telegram side of it.

What's worse, I cannot remember in which of those two channels I must
prepend an @ in order to highlight someone on the other side of the bridge
(assuming I can gather what name they use on that bridge based on
backscroll). So, complications multiply.

In comparison to both of these cases, we are using the matrix.org
homeserver's freenode integration in both channels. It does, in fact, put
two nicks in the channel for that person, but this to me is a
straightforward indication that the Matrix integration is effected through a
per-person bot, run from the homeserver side of the connection on behalf of
that user. If the user keeps their Matrix username consistent with their IRC
nick, they can receive highlights with no additional effort on IRC users'
part, despite the [m] suffix. When there is a netsplit between the matrix
homeserver and the ircd, you can tell in a way that other kinds of bridging
would not so cleanly be able to show.

I've mucked around with various XMPP things over the years, including
currently running my own ejabberd and using bitlbee as an XMPP<-->IRC
connector for some private personal groupchats, and with multiple Android
devices to connect to those groupchats. It might be that I'm doing something
wrong, but I have never had very good luck using a single XMPP account
across multiple devices--traffic will go to one or another but not all of
them, depending on what sort of connectivity state they've fallen into. 

With Matrix, that "Just Works" such that I see a consistent view of the
conversation on any device or client I've used so far.  Even so, XMPP and
its software implementations seem to be under continued development and I am
keeping my eye on it.
 
> A third bridge that looks promising is Biboumi.  We tested only briefly 
> so far but it looks like it properly represents each part

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Google Code In wrap up

[Jonas Smedegaard]

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>> Regarding a possible move from IRC to Slack, or Gitter, or something 
>> else as suggested by Ignacio, I wonder that we could just upgrade 
>> http://chat.sugarlabs.org from qwebchat to http://demo.shout-irc.com 
>> :)

Quoting Walter Bender (2017-01-17 22:57:22)
> There is also matrix.org, which is FOSS AFAIK and seems to let one 
> integrate irc with other channels people may prefer. I suggest a few 
> passionate community members give some of these systems a test-drive 
> and then convince us old-timers that we ought to learn some new 
> tricks.

The OFTC.net irc channel #debian-in where I hang out recently did 
several tests with bridging multiple chat systems - irc and Jabber and 
matrix.org.

Old-timers like me got frustrated when a bridge was setup where Jabber 
users appeared in irc not as individual users but as a bot echoing 
messages from a Jabber room.  At the Jabber end they felt comfortable, 
but at the irc end we felt that it was not an equal conversation when 
e.g. you cannot use TAB to complete the nick of one you want to address.

Another bridge between irc and matrix.org was tested, better but now 
each participant had duplicate nicks, with the matrix.org connection 
having a "[m]" suffix.

Neither of those to me annoying bridges was setup by me so I don't know 
the details of the software used.  I can ask, if really interested.

A third bridge that looks promising is Biboumi.  We tested only briefly 
so far but it looks like it properly represents each participant without 
a visible bot in-between or dublicated nicks.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: [IAEP] Google Code In wrap up

[Tymon Radzik]

Thank you very much for this year Google Code-in! It was awesome time in my
life, undoubtly beneficial for me and - as I believe - to entire Sugar Labs
community. We altogether did a lot of good for SL and I am really happy
because of it. I am also really happy I could in general take a part in
this contest.

I hope I will be able to work with you during upcoming GSoC :)

Best,
Tymon

//message reposted from another email as previous one seemed not to work

wt., 17 sty 2017 o 19:32 użytkownik Walter Bender 
napisał:

> Google Code In ended on Monday. We had 296 students participate and 422
> tasks completed. From the feedback I have gotten from the students it was a
> valuable experience for them and certainly from the point of view of Sugar
> Labs we got some great work done. We also had 36 mentors this year, which
> made it a much richer experience for the students and a much more
> manageable situation for me. And some help from some non-mentors too
> (tip-of-the-hat to Quozl).
>
> The mentors need to select our 5 finalists from the top ten contributors
> as well as our 2 grand-prize winners and 1 runner up.
>
> TymonR 32
> Cristian García 29
> Pablo Salomón Ortega 23
> Emily Ong Hui Qi 22
> Hrishi Patel 19
> Himanshu Sekhar Nayak 14
> Kachachan Chotitamnavee 13
> Hitesh Agarwal 12
> eohomegrownapps 11
> Matías Martínez 10
> Ayush Kumar 10
>
> Please email to me you thoughts so we can take them into consideration in
> the decision.
>
> I would also appreciate feedback on GCi, our process and our tasks. Would
> be good for making sure we do a better job next year.
>
> thanks all.
>
> -walter
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Google Code In wrap up

[Walter Bender]

There is also matrix.org, which is FOSS AFAIK and seems to let one
integrate irc with other channels people may prefer. I suggest a few
passionate community members give some of these systems a test-drive and
then convince us old-timers that we ought to learn some new tricks.

-walter

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Regarding a possible move from IRC to Slack, or Gitter, or something else
> as suggested by Ignacio, I wonder that we could just upgrade
> http://chat.sugarlabs.org from qwebchat to http://demo.shout-irc.com :)
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Google Code In wrap up

[Dave Crossland]

Regarding a possible move from IRC to Slack, or Gitter, or something else
as suggested by Ignacio, I wonder that we could just upgrade
http://chat.sugarlabs.org from qwebchat to http://demo.shout-irc.com :)
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Re: [IAEP] XSCE -> Internet-in-a-Box 6.2 and 6.3 road maps emerging: Thur Call 10:30AM EST

[Adam Holt]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Adam Holt  wrote:

> Please join us Thursday 10:30AM NYC Time to go through these proposed
> roadmaps, as outlined (very!) roughly during our QE (Quality Engineering)
> call this morning:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/xsceminutes
>
> Please reflect on these 6.2 and 6.3 ideas prior to Thursday's call.  In
> brief, XSCE 6.2 is focused on Raspbian especially, and will initially offer
> only partial support for Debian, CentOS, until volunteers arise to hammer
> on the OS's of their choosing and beef up this quality.
>
> For XSCE 6.3, I would be especially interested in educators' thoughts on:
>
>- "Dynamic Menuing" of Content Packs (SEE 1. b. ii. within above
>link's Jan 17 Minutes)
>- "Analytics = Local Empowerment not Surveillance" (SEE 1. b. iii.
>within above link's Jan 17 Minutes)
>
> On the infra side, take note our repo is being overhauled, and will soon
> be going on a diet, as it changes from:
>
>http://github.com/xsce/xsce
>
> Over to:
>
>http://github.com/iiab/iiab
>


Our diet's goal is to prune source code prior to XSCE 6.0 (or some such, so
we no longer have to carry around the last decade's work of source
code/commits/etc from long ago ;)

Plz reply ASAP if you have counter-proposals for a better way to do this
pruning!

All welcome during our Thursday community/deployment fieldback -> support
> -> requirements calls!  Thanks for accommodating our 30min delay this week,
> starting 1/2 hour later than the usual weekly call, for our Mexican
> partners (Kids On Computers) especially!
>
> Backchannel for chitchat / late comers wanting to join the call:
>
>https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#schoolserver
>
> --
> Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ http://unleashkids.org
>
> --
> 
> 
> Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ 
> http://unleashkids.org !
>
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[IAEP] XSCE -> Internet-in-a-Box 6.2 and 6.3 road maps emerging: Thur Call 10:30AM EST

[Adam Holt]

Please join us Thursday 10:30AM NYC Time to go through these proposed
roadmaps, as outlined (very!) roughly during our QE (Quality Engineering)
call this morning:

   http://tinyurl.com/xsceminutes

Please reflect on these 6.2 and 6.3 ideas prior to Thursday's call.  In
brief, XSCE 6.2 is focused on Raspbian especially, and will initially offer
only partial support for Debian, CentOS, until volunteers arise to hammer
on the OS's of their choosing and beef up this quality.

For XSCE 6.3, I would be especially interested in educators' thoughts on:

   - "Dynamic Menuing" of Content Packs (SEE 1. b. ii. within above link's
   Jan 17 Minutes)
   - "Analytics = Local Empowerment not Surveillance" (SEE 1. b. iii.
   within above link's Jan 17 Minutes)

On the infra side, take note our repo is being overhauled, and will soon be
going on a diet, as it changes from:

   http://github.com/xsce/xsce

Over to:

   http://github.com/iiab/iiab

All welcome during our Thursday community/deployment fieldback -> support
-> requirements calls!  Thanks for accommodating our 30min delay this week,
starting 1/2 hour later than the usual weekly call, for our Mexican
partners (Kids On Computers) especially!

Backchannel for chitchat / late comers wanting to join the call:

   https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#schoolserver

--
Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ http://unleashkids.org
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[IAEP] Google Code In wrap up

[Walter Bender]

Google Code In ended on Monday. We had 296 students participate and 422
tasks completed. From the feedback I have gotten from the students it was a
valuable experience for them and certainly from the point of view of Sugar
Labs we got some great work done. We also had 36 mentors this year, which
made it a much richer experience for the students and a much more
manageable situation for me. And some help from some non-mentors too
(tip-of-the-hat to Quozl).

The mentors need to select our 5 finalists from the top ten contributors as
well as our 2 grand-prize winners and 1 runner up.

TymonR 32
Cristian García 29
Pablo Salomón Ortega 23
Emily Ong Hui Qi 22
Hrishi Patel 19
Himanshu Sekhar Nayak 14
Kachachan Chotitamnavee 13
Hitesh Agarwal 12
eohomegrownapps 11
Matías Martínez 10
Ayush Kumar 10

Please email to me you thoughts so we can take them into consideration in
the decision.

I would also appreciate feedback on GCi, our process and our tasks. Would
be good for making sure we do a better job next year.

thanks all.

-walter

-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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