Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread David Farning 
I agree :)

Right now, we are sitting back and seeing what roll OLPC-Australia is
going to play in the ecosystem. The One Education distribution out of
Australia is a combination of Dextrose, Sugar .100 and some custom
patches. My semi-informed guess is that Walter and Rangan (
https://www.laptop.org.au/about ) are going to position One Education
as the successor to OLPC-OS. I hope that we will learn more at about
their plans at basecamp. ( http://olpcbasecamp.blogspot.com/ ) This
would take care or the leading edge on Fedora.

On the Ubuntu side we have a bit of a challenge balancing bleeding
edge and stability. Sugar and Fedora tend to run a bit ahead of Debian
and Ubuntu in library versions. It take a significant amount of effort
to backport the necessary libraries to Ubuntu LTS. For this release we
agreed that the proper balance of innovation and stability was Sugar
.98 on Ubuntu 12.04. The next decision point will be which version of
Sugar to use for the 14.04 release due in the second quarter of 2014.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Daniel Narvaez  wrote:
> Cool stuff.
>
> As for Fedora it would be great to have builds with the latest sugar (stable
> and unstable) releases. I'm not saying to ship those to deployments of
> course, but they would help upstream development, marketing and testing...
> And they would help AC to make the transition to the next sugar release
> smoother.
>
> On 7 November 2013 02:05, David Farning 
> wrote:
>>
>> Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/
>> for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal
>> are jointly developing.
>>
>> For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing
>> is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should
>> work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu.
>>
>> It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers.
>> When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale
>> to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing.
>>
>> For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile
>> speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest
>> back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has
>> the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez 
>> wrote:
>> > On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
>> >> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.
>> >>
>> >> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for
>> >> example.
>> >
>> >
>> > You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro?
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Sugar-devel mailing list
>> > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Farning
>> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Narvaez



-- 
David Farning
Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Daniel Narvaez 
Cool stuff.

As for Fedora it would be great to have builds with the latest sugar
(stable and unstable) releases. I'm not saying to ship those to deployments
of course, but they would help upstream development, marketing and
testing... And they would help AC to make the transition to the next sugar
release smoother.

On 7 November 2013 02:05, David Farning wrote:

> Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/
> for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal
> are jointly developing.
>
> For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing
> is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should
> work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu.
>
> It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers.
> When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale
> to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing.
>
> For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile
> speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest
> back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has
> the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives.
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez 
> wrote:
> > On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
> >> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.
> >>
> >> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for
> >> example.
> >
> >
> > You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro?
> >
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David Farning
> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
>



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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread David Farning 
Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/
for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal
are jointly developing.

For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing
is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should
work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu.

It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers.
When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale
to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing.

For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile
speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest
back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has
the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez  wrote:
> On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones  wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
>> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.
>>
>> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for
>> example.
>
>
> You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro?
>
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>



-- 
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Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread nanonano 

/>On 06/11/2013 13:31, Daniel Narvaez wrote://
//>You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro?/
--



In Uruguay we have Classmates II (called "Magallanes") in some High Schools, that comes with Ubuntu 10.01.3 and Sugar 
Sweets Distribution (0.94.1), you can download the image here 
.
(hardware  and Software 
 specifications).


In other High schools the children have XO 1.5, 1.75 or 4.0, and in some kindergardens and schools (1st grade) they have 
OLPC tablets  with Android.




By the way: in High Schools there are very few people who uses Sugar, they normally use the Gnome interface, as in 
primary School, except for a part of the children that still have the XO 1.0 without Gnome.




Paolo Benini
Montevideo
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Walter Bender 
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Gonzalo Odiard  wrote:
> Clock, Speak, and part of Memorize use gstreamer just to do text to speech.
> I would like to have tts provided by Sugar as a service, probably using dbus
> and a api in sugar-toolkit-gtk3. That would simplify these activities and 
> solve
> other problems we have, like by example the keep the language names translated
> and updated in every place.


I've had a few false starts trying to port Measure to GST 1.0. Once I
get that working, Turtle Art will follow (that is why I still haven't
released the GTK 3 version of Turtle Art).

-walter

>
> Gonzalo
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Peter Robinson  wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Narvaez  wrote:
>>> I forgot a note about toolkits
>>>
>>> * The gtk2 toolkit is deprecated and frozen but it will be supported as long
>>> as possible (at some point I guess some dependencies might start
>>> disappearing from distributions, making that problematic). The gtk3 toolkit
>>> is supported, backward API compatibility is guaranteed, it's not going to be
>>> deprecated in the foreseable future. The web toolkit is experimental, we
>>> provide no API guarantee yet, when it's mature it will be the preferred way
>>> to write activities (because of cross platform compatibility).
>>
>> The other one to add to this list is gstreamer. At the moment we have
>> some support for gstreamer 1.0 and some (mostly gtk2) Activities still
>> using gstreamer 0.10. The 0.10 release will be disappearing sooner
>> rather than later (I wouldn't be surprised if this happened in
>> F-21/F-22 time frame). I would love to see us be able to remove the
>> dependency on two gst stacks, at the moment at least Clock, Speak,
>> Record and Memorise need to be converted from gstreamer-python / gst
>> 0.10 to gst 1.0 with Introspection support, whether this requires
>> migration to gtk3 at the same time is unknown to me.
>>
>> Peter
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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Manuel Quiñones 
2013/11/6 Daniel Narvaez :
> On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones  wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
>> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.
>>
>> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for
>> example.
>
>
> You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro?

I don't know the details.  Maybe Flavio knows.

-- 
.. manuq ..
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Peter Robinson 
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Daniel Narvaez  wrote:
> Are classmates somehow available to developers? It sounds like making images
> (or whatever) for them might be a pretty good idea.

You should be able to use the SoaS images on them straight up, there's
an installer option. If it's aimed at a deployment it might be easier
to use olpc-os-builder or a kickstart to automate the installation.

Peter
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Daniel Narvaez 
On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones  wrote:

>
> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.
>
> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for
> example.
>

You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro?
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Daniel Narvaez 
Are classmates somehow available to developers? It sounds like making
images (or whatever) for them might be a pretty good idea.


On 6 November 2013 16:25, Gonzalo Odiard  wrote:

> Yes, but we never provided a easy way to install in classmates,
> or tried to approach hardware manufactures to propose them to invest on
> that.
>
> Gonzalo
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Manuel Quiñones  wrote:
> > 2013/11/6 Peter Robinson :
> >> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gonzalo Odiard 
> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Narvaez 
> wrote:
>  Hello,
> 
>  I think Sugar Labs needs to express a clear, realistic technology
> roadmap.
>  For example, we have been talking a lot about Sugar on Android,
> mixing a lot
>  of different things under that name. We need to clarify what that
> really is.
> 
>  Here are my thoughts, inspired by the oversight board meeting thread.
> 
>  * Wait and see what happens with the XO. Support existing deployments
> by
>  producing images with the most recent Sugar release. Stick to a
> Fedora 18
>  base system, the work to upgrade is highly non trivial. Provide
> custom rpms
>  for the sugar modules and a few dependencies, most importantly
> Webkit, which
>  is required by web activities.
> >>>
> >>> In the short term, we don't need backport Webkit2 to F18. In the long
> term,
> >>> we need find a solution to move to a newer Fedora in the XOs, maybe 20
> or 21.
> >>>
>  * Ensure web activities run well in web browsers. This will cover
> Android
>  and other non-Linux systems.
>  * Reuse the work done by OLPC on Fedora to get Sugar running nicely
> on one
>  or two ARM boards (Beagle board black and Cubox-i seems to be the
> best we
>  could pick at the moment). Talk to the manufacturers to get publicity
> on the
>  images we produce and devices for the developers.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe not only ARM hardware. At least in South America, many places
> >>> are using Classmates in educative projects. I know talks between OLPC
> >>> and Intel were difficult in the past, but is a different world now.
> >>
> >> Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
> >> don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.
> >
> > Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for
> example.
> >
> > --
> > .. manuq ..
>



-- 
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Gonzalo Odiard 
Yes, but we never provided a easy way to install in classmates,
or tried to approach hardware manufactures to propose them to invest on that.

Gonzalo

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Manuel Quiñones  wrote:
> 2013/11/6 Peter Robinson :
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gonzalo Odiard  wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Narvaez  wrote:
 Hello,

 I think Sugar Labs needs to express a clear, realistic technology roadmap.
 For example, we have been talking a lot about Sugar on Android, mixing a 
 lot
 of different things under that name. We need to clarify what that really 
 is.

 Here are my thoughts, inspired by the oversight board meeting thread.

 * Wait and see what happens with the XO. Support existing deployments by
 producing images with the most recent Sugar release. Stick to a Fedora 18
 base system, the work to upgrade is highly non trivial. Provide custom rpms
 for the sugar modules and a few dependencies, most importantly Webkit, 
 which
 is required by web activities.
>>>
>>> In the short term, we don't need backport Webkit2 to F18. In the long term,
>>> we need find a solution to move to a newer Fedora in the XOs, maybe 20 or 
>>> 21.
>>>
 * Ensure web activities run well in web browsers. This will cover Android
 and other non-Linux systems.
 * Reuse the work done by OLPC on Fedora to get Sugar running nicely on one
 or two ARM boards (Beagle board black and Cubox-i seems to be the best we
 could pick at the moment). Talk to the manufacturers to get publicity on 
 the
 images we produce and devices for the developers.
>>>
>>> Maybe not only ARM hardware. At least in South America, many places
>>> are using Classmates in educative projects. I know talks between OLPC
>>> and Intel were difficult in the past, but is a different world now.
>>
>> Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
>> don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.
>
> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for example.
>
> --
> .. manuq ..
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap

2013-11-06 Thread Manuel Quiñones 
2013/11/6 Peter Robinson :
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gonzalo Odiard  wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Narvaez  wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I think Sugar Labs needs to express a clear, realistic technology roadmap.
>>> For example, we have been talking a lot about Sugar on Android, mixing a lot
>>> of different things under that name. We need to clarify what that really is.
>>>
>>> Here are my thoughts, inspired by the oversight board meeting thread.
>>>
>>> * Wait and see what happens with the XO. Support existing deployments by
>>> producing images with the most recent Sugar release. Stick to a Fedora 18
>>> base system, the work to upgrade is highly non trivial. Provide custom rpms
>>> for the sugar modules and a few dependencies, most importantly Webkit, which
>>> is required by web activities.
>>
>> In the short term, we don't need backport Webkit2 to F18. In the long term,
>> we need find a solution to move to a newer Fedora in the XOs, maybe 20 or 21.
>>
>>> * Ensure web activities run well in web browsers. This will cover Android
>>> and other non-Linux systems.
>>> * Reuse the work done by OLPC on Fedora to get Sugar running nicely on one
>>> or two ARM boards (Beagle board black and Cubox-i seems to be the best we
>>> could pick at the moment). Talk to the manufacturers to get publicity on the
>>> images we produce and devices for the developers.
>>
>> Maybe not only ARM hardware. At least in South America, many places
>> are using Classmates in educative projects. I know talks between OLPC
>> and Intel were difficult in the past, but is a different world now.
>
> Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I
> don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB.

Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box.  In Uruguay for example.

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