Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .....android+sugar+doors = oui?
On 2012-09-13, at 06:01, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I would like to see Sugar Activities able to run in Gnome and vice versa. As far as I know, TurtleArt is the only one that does both. Etoys and Scratch, too (which preceded Sugar, but not everyone might know this). - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .....android+sugar+doors = oui?
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2012-09-13, at 06:01, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I would like to see Sugar Activities able to run in Gnome and vice versa. As far as I know, TurtleArt is the only one that does both. Etoys and Scratch, too (which preceded Sugar, but not everyone might know this). Some of us know :) But many others as well. I try to maintain GNOME versions of most of the activities I write, for example. It is pretty straightforward, just a little work. And there are many Sugar activities that already have GNOME equivalents, e.g., Write/Abiword. Since you can easily move Journal objects back and forth between the Sugar Journal and the Linux file system, that is no longer a bottleneck. And, at least with Turtle Art (Etoys too?) the Sugar collaboration model works across desktops. But all of this should be enabled at a deeper level within the Sugar toolkit to facilitate activity developers. As far as Android compatibility, I still have a long learning curve re Android in order to make an assessment. I am curious as to the specific features of Android that David finds compelling. regards. -walter - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .....android+sugar+doors = oui?
I've done a little work on sugar-android pathways, including a (still incomplete) port of gtk3 to android. The primary tasks would be: 1) gtk/python container to run gtk3/py-gobject activities unmodified in Android; 2) reimplementation of Journal as Android service (using intents); 3) (optional):implementation of an Android home screen service to mimic the tradition 4 zoom interface of sugar. There are no technical blockers as far as I can see. The collaboration infrastructure might also need to be revisited or reimagined, but many sugar activities do not use the collaboration apis. I am eager to discuss this further with anyone interested in doing the work. I've been developing/deploying on an android platform since the beginning of the year. Lots of info in my blog, too. --scott ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .....android+sugar+doors = oui?
Thanks Scott, Can you think about explaining this in person in San Francisco anytime Oct 19-24 during our 2 OLPC/Sugar events there? http://olpcSF.org/summit EARLY DRAFT SCHEDULE POSTED (Oct 19-21) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp_SF_2012 30 PRELIMINARY RSVP'S SO FAR (Oct 22-24) Official registration to both events expected to open in the coming week -- please submit final proposals for sessions now! http://olpcSF.org/submit-proposal-2012 On 9/13/2012 11:09 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: I've done a little work on sugar-android pathways, including a (still incomplete) port of gtk3 to android. The primary tasks would be: 1) gtk/python container to run gtk3/py-gobject activities unmodified in Android; 2) reimplementation of Journal as Android service (using intents); 3) (optional):implementation of an Android home screen service to mimic the tradition 4 zoom interface of sugar. There are no technical blockers as far as I can see. The collaboration infrastructure might also need to be revisited or reimagined, but many sugar activities do not use the collaboration apis. I am eager to discuss this further with anyone interested in doing the work. I've been developing/deploying on an android platform since the beginning of the year. Lots of info in my blog, too. --scott -- Help kids everywhere map their world, at http://olpcMAP.net ! ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .....android+sugar+doors = oui?
Hi Scott, Well, I can't help with the programming, but I can help with testing! I'll have to get an Android device first, but that isn't a problem! This is a wonderful project as many schools are moving to a bring your own device mode for students and using handhelds is the in thing though, unfortunately, Mostly for Apple devices (see the link below for an example of a small conference done by CUELA this June). Caryl http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?llr=wugxwigaboeidk=a07e5mpbpafccd210c3 (be sure to see the speakers schedule) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:09:45 -0400 From: csc...@laptop.org To: walter.ben...@gmail.com CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .android+sugar+doors = oui? I've done a little work on sugar-android pathways, including a (still incomplete) port of gtk3 to android. The primary tasks would be: 1) gtk/python container to run gtk3/py-gobject activities unmodified in Android; 2) reimplementation of Journal as Android service (using intents); 3) (optional):implementation of an Android home screen service to mimic the tradition 4 zoom interface of sugar. There are no technical blockers as far as I can see. The collaboration infrastructure might also need to be revisited or reimagined, but many sugar activities do not use the collaboration apis. I am eager to discuss this further with anyone interested in doing the work. I've been developing/deploying on an android platform since the beginning of the year. Lots of info in my blog, too. --scott ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .....android+sugar+doors = oui?
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Adam Holt h...@laptop.org wrote: Can you think about explaining this in person in San Francisco anytime Oct 19-24 during our 2 OLPC/Sugar events there? http://olpcSF.org/summit EARLY DRAFT SCHEDULE POSTED (Oct 19-21) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp_SF_2012 30 PRELIMINARY RSVP'S SO FAR (Oct 22-24) Official registration to both events expected to open in the coming week -- please submit final proposals for sessions now! http://olpcSF.org/submit-proposal-2012 I'd love to, but my wife and I are expecting a boy in early November. I'm not sure that cross-country travel is going to be feasible for me. As with the XO Stick stuff, I'd love to partner with a local proxy/backup who can lead a session, and I could participate remotely via Google hangout or whatnot. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net ) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] evolution or revolution? .....android+sugar+doors = oui?
Hi David You have written a wide ranging piece which is difficult for me to respond to comprehensively, please permit me to respond to just a few points. 1) Working against school systems Though Sugar/OLPC are unashamedly constructivist/constructionist, I don't think it is accurate to characterise them as revolution (by working against them [school systems]), although comments like that may have been made at times by some. Constructiv(n)ist learning takes place within schools and continues outside of school. Many teachers and schools recognise its importance. Wanting schools to change their emphasis from instruction to more construction is evolutionary. Supporting the learning that takes place outside of school is not working against schools, its complimentary. 2) How to prevent/stem infection ... manage money This is the kind of stuff that the most constructionist Activities, Etoys, Scratch, TurtleArt, really excell at. Have a look at some of their simulations. I am not sure what you are criticising here in OLPC/Sugar, but if its constructionism, I think the criticism is not well founded 3) Proposed OUI I gather that you are not a supporter of the Home view and the tagged Journal. I have some reservations myself. It is limited in things like multiple file operations and mangling of file name extensions. The inclusion of Gnome in OLPC images is a good thing and neutralises my concerns about Sugar. Kids can migrate to Gnome once they become more sophisticated users, somewhere around the upper primary lower secondary years. I would like to see Sugar Activities able to run in Gnome and vice versa. As far as I know, TurtleArt is the only one that does both. There are excellent Sugar Activities that should not be restricted to just the Sugar desktop. When it comes to desktop metaphors, I don't much care. Kids are much less concerned with metaphors than we are, they will take an operating system as is. My problem with your OUI is that I can't see what problem it is solving. It may be better than the current Sugar desktop but I can't tell. Some screenshot mockups might help. Hosting the document as a wiki rather than a pdf would aid community input. Thanks Tony i see that olpc is responding to consumer demand and putting android as well as sugar on new xo3 machines. perhaps this will become gladiatorial combat in which one will die, or perhaps it is an opportunity for conjugation by their respective developers to give birth to a new generation of interface that possesses the best features of each ... it all depends on how the teams respond. presumably, the original intent of olpc was to facilitate education; education in the broadest sense. there are two strategies for that: evolution (by working with school systems) or revolution (by working against them). perhaps i am wrong, but it looks to me that sugar has followed the latter route. Papert's marvellous insights were seminal - and i seem to recall that there was talk of a revolution in the classroom - but perhaps that was just the heady language of the 1960s at work? the electronic spreadsheet was another seminal development - and even more far-reaching, for it was the one that sparked the personal computer revolution in the first place, and one that has stood the test of time so far. economic/social revolution worked in France, but its ideals never made it into USA political consciousness, except in the mouths of a few sanguine commentators like Noam Chomsky and less sanguine ones like Michael Moore. yet the computer revolution still hasn't made a major impact on education - a minor one, to be sure, but the promise has yet to be fully realised. it is possible that the people who like making software, being computer enthusiasts, forget that the average Joe child in whatever country has other, more urgent, more visceral, more real-world needs than making machines dance? like knowing how to prevent/stem infection. like knowing how to manage money. etc etc. computers could help them learn these vital things, if only that was where the technocrats' motivations lay... in the long run, evolution is more persistent than revolution. empires, having risen, eventually and fall. but technology marches on and drags humankind (sometimes kicking and screaming) into new ways of thinking about things. an interface, like a human language, is a means to an end, but (particularly in a monopoly market) there is always the risk of it becoming political territory, as with the Academie Francaise for example, fighting off the linguistic invasion of l'Anglish. but if evolution is truly inevitable, might it not be better to go with it than stick one's heels in against it? aside from the surface interface issues of whether one should point with a finger or a mouse, or type on a screen or a keyboard (typing isn't going to go away anytime soon as reliable AI aural comprehension is
