In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on
03/29/2007
at 12:47 PM, Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Well now to be completely fair, that is exactly what I said. Your
edit implies otherwise.
You raised a straw dummy; the people advocating ISPF are not claiming
that it works well for unstructured data and
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/25/2007
at 05:03 PM, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
However, ISPF forces you to remember a *lot* of data set names. To
the system programmers on this list that may not be a big deal,
(everything that matters starts with SYS1.* right?)
Wrong, and irrelevant;
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/26/2007
at 02:57 PM, Dave Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Don mentioned in an earlier post that the ISPF editor is the 'gold
standard'
It isn't; it's just the vi[1] of the MVS world. The MVS world has at
least two editors with important capabilities that ISPF lacks:
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/26/2007
at 04:53 PM, Dave Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Why *isn't* it a limitation of ISPF? ISPF is the user interface to
the mainframe, in just the same way as Windows is the user interface
to the PC. If I'm working on my PC and I click a PDF document,
Windows
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/26/2007
at 08:39 PM, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Yes I know about ROSCOE and the others (Wylbur etc.) and while they
are OK once you learn them I found I kept wishing that I had ISPF.
When I had ISPF and SuperWylbur® I used both and kept wishing that I
had
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/27/2007
at 02:18 AM, Dave Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
For one thing, you just can't beat the ability to enter line
commands.
Sure you can, with user defined[1] line commands. That's what I miss
most about XEDIT.
[1]Including supporting infrastructure.
--
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on
03/27/2007
at 09:28 AM, Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
But... while you can scroll left and right and play games with
inserts and shifts and nulls and so forth, only a masochist would
claim it works well for unstructured data and long lines.
Similarly, only a
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 03/27/2007
at 10:01 AM, Barkow, Eileen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
While on the subject of editors, i am new to z/os Linux
There is no z/OS Linux. There is a Unix component in z/OS and there is
a Linux port; they are separate entities.
and would like to find an editor
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/28/2007
at 02:58 AM, Dave Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
The original poster said something along the lines of I don't want
to keep scraps of paper with all my DB2 table names on it. In
support of that, I used an analogy that even though Windows doesn't
natively
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 03/26/2007
at 12:20 PM, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Nowadays, a programmer who did something like that would likely be
fired on the spot.
That would depend on
1. Whether he installed SimpList in system libraries
2. Whether he violated the TC for the
On 29 Mar 2007 09:29:41 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Shmuel
Metz , Seymour J.) wrote:
Yes I know about ROSCOE and the others (Wylbur etc.) and while they
are OK once you learn them I found I kept wishing that I had ISPF.
When I had ISPF and SuperWylbur® I used both and kept wishing that I
had
Shmuel said
at 09:28 AM, Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
But... while you can scroll left and right and play games with
inserts and shifts and nulls and so forth, only a masochist would
claim it works well for unstructured data and long lines.
Similarly, only a masochist would
ISMF...
In
contrast, which native ISPF application would a person have to go into
to
see a list of all their DB2 tables?
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Dave Salt
[ snip ]
The original poster said something along the lines of I
don't want to keep scraps of paper with all my DB2 table
names on it. In support of that, I used an analogy that even
though Windows
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Salt
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro
List/Execute Forms (Was: Need help with Assembler
Dave Salt wrote:
From: John S. Giltner, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I may still be missing the point. Just how is Windows any different?
If you buy Windows from a store and install on a PC, download a PDF
file, double click it, what will happen? Nothing. Windows has no way
to keep track of whats
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ed Gould
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2007 11:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro List/Execute Forms
(Was: Need help with Assembler ...)
Like I said it was a web mail NOT smtp.
Besides he is a MAC person:)
Ed
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 4:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro
List/Execute Forms (Was: Need help with Assembler ...)
snip
John McKown is on the money (as usual) when he says;
Agreed, in general. That's likely the difference between a text
editor
with enhancements such as ISPF edit, versus an IDE for a specific
language. I would never use ISPF to create a Java program. I use
Netbeans. I'm easily 5x as productive
: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Craddock, Chris
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro List/Execute Forms
(Was: Need help with Assembler ...)
John McKown is on the money (as usual) when
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:28:38 -0400, Craddock, Chris wrote:
John McKown is on the money (as usual) when he says;
Agreed, in general. That's likely the difference between a text editor
with enhancements such as ISPF edit, versus an IDE for a specific
language. I would never use ISPF to create a
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barkow, Eileen
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro
List/Execute Forms (Was: Need help with Assembler
with Assembler ...)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barkow, Eileen
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro
List/Execute Forms (Was: Need help
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barkow, Eileen
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro
List/Execute Forms (Was: Need help with Assembler
, March 27, 2007 11:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro List/Execute Forms
(Was: Need help with Assembler ...)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barkow, Eileen
Sent: Tuesday, March
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Barkow, Eileen
Actually, i am a bored CICS system's programmer ...
Delving into the intricacies of RACF can be an interesting and
constructive diversion when you're between CICS releases / projects.
:-)
-jc-
for that product - i just do the CICS
automation stuff.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chase, John
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro List/Execute Forms
Without seeking approval from anyone, a programmer at the
site installed a free trial copy of SimpList. [ snip ]
Nowadays, a programmer who did something like that would likely be fired
on the spot.
I have to get permission to install CBT (and other) ware.
I can get away with EXEC's and
Dave Salt wrote:
Ted MacNEIL said:
Why is this a limitation to ISPF?
ISPF doesn't maintain DB2 tables; DB2 does.
Dave Salt said:
Why *isn't* it a limitation of ISPF? ISPF is the user interface to
the mainframe, in just the same way as Windows is the user interface
to the PC. If I'm
From: John S. Giltner, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I may still be missing the point. Just how is Windows any different? If you
buy Windows from a store and install on a PC, download a PDF file, double
click it, what will happen? Nothing. Windows has no way to keep track of
whats on it with out
On Mar 27, 2007, at 8:51 PM, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote:
I may still be missing the point. Just how is Windows any
different? If you buy Windows from a store and install on a PC,
download a PDF file, double click it, what will happen? Nothing.
Windows has no way to keep track of whats
Why is this a limitation to ISPF?
ISPF doesn't maintain DB2 tables; DB2 does.
Write an application, maintain it, market it.
But, don't blame ISPF for DB2.
I am merely pointing out that IBM is missing a huge opportunity by
providing, at the very least, the ability to launch a DB2 table editor
ISPF forces you to remember a *lot* of data set names.
You can set up personal dataset lists, or write a front end to the editor,
or...
The point is, you are not 'forced' to do anything.
I have written many applications, myself, for ISPF, and, I see no need for
SPIFFY (or SIMPLIST --
With all due respect, you are thinking like a systems programmer. Think of
the great unwashed masses of other ISPF users who just want to *use* ISPF.
Whom do you think I wrote them for?
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
Don Leahy wrote:
Also ISPF was a very powerful tool in its day. Today the IDE's
available for many of the environments allow people to be far more
productive and give far
better value for the money.
I disagree. If the proper tools are installed, there is no reason why
developing on big
On Mar 26, 2007, at 6:01 AM, Don Leahy wrote:
--
SNIP
With all due respect, you are thinking like a systems programmer.
Think of
the great unwashed masses of other ISPF users who just want to
*use* ISPF.
Don,
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don
Leahy
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro List/Execute Forms (Was:
Need help with Assembler ...)
Also ISPF
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Need for small machines was Re: Macro
List/Execute Forms (Was: Need help with Assembler
Don Leahy wrote:
ISPF forces you to remember a *lot* of data set names.
You can set up personal dataset lists, or write a front end to the
editor,
or...
The point is, you are not 'forced' to do anything.
I have written many applications, myself, for ISPF, and, I see no need
for
SPIFFY (or
From: Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Don,
Approximately 10 years ago a place where I was working had VM MVS. I
won't go into the details but lets just say that in one day VM went poof
so they had to convert quite a few people from VM to ISPF/MVS.
I volunteered to create a course from scratch
From: Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have written many applications, myself, for ISPF, and, I see no need for
SPIFFY (or SIMPLIST -- especially since that one may have keys), a lot of
it is too easy to justify the cost of the product, especially with the
mainframe issues of today.
SimpList
Don Leahy said:
I have hundreds of different DB2 tables that I need to look at. I use
SPUFI all the time, but keeping track of table names on scraps of paper
is yet another productivity drain.
Ted MacNEIL said:
Why is this a limitation to ISPF?
ISPF doesn't maintain DB2 tables; DB2 does.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Dave Salt
From: Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have written many applications, myself, for ISPF, and, I see no
need
for SPIFFY (or SIMPLIST -- especially since that one may have keys),
a
lot of it is too easy to
Depends on which shop. You could probably get away with that with no trouble
at a lot of smaller shops.
Jon
snip
Without seeking approval from anyone, a programmer at the
site installed a free trial copy of SimpList. [ snip ]
Nowadays, a programmer who did something like that would
Without seeking approval from anyone, a programmer at the
site installed a free trial copy of SimpList. [ snip ]
Nowadays, a programmer who did something like that would likely be fired on
the spot.
I have to get permission to install CBT (and other) ware.
I can get away with EXEC's and
On Mar 26, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Dave Salt wrote:
Ed,
Don mentioned in an earlier post that the ISPF editor is the 'gold
standard' (or something like that). He's not criticising the ISPF
editor, and he's certainly not the person who started this whole
thread about ISPF not being productive.
From: Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED]
maybe the ISPF editor should be called the PLATINUM standard?
Ed,
Or perhaps even the 'Gould' standard?;-)
The point is, I'm with you all the way! The ISPF editor is the best I've
ever used. For one thing, you just can't beat the ability to enter line
Dave Salt wrote:
Ted MacNEIL said:
Why is this a limitation to ISPF?
ISPF doesn't maintain DB2 tables; DB2 does.
Why *isn't* it a limitation of ISPF? ISPF is the user interface to the
mainframe, in just the same way as Windows is the user interface to the
PC. If I'm working on my PC and
Ed,
Microsoft Outlook
CTRL-A
DELETE
6338 emails deleted in three keystrokes
Ron
In anycase I had a friend who was working on a web mail problem (long
story deleted) he could only delete 100 emails at a time. I told him
too bad he didn't have ISPF as he could have deleted
Ted MacNEIL said:
Why is this a limitation to ISPF?
ISPF doesn't maintain DB2 tables; DB2 does.
Dave Salt said:
Why *isn't* it a limitation of ISPF? ISPF is the user interface to the
mainframe, in just the same way as Windows is the user interface to the
PC. If I'm working on my PC and I
Dave wrote on 27/03/2007 12:18:45 PM:
The ISPF editor is the best I've
ever used. For one thing, you just can't beat the ability to enter line
commands.
I can't remember the times I've wanted to do that - or use the Command
Line to do something like:
x all;f blah all;c blah boggs all nx
Like I said it was a web mail NOT smtp.
Besides he is a MAC person:)
Ed
On Mar 26, 2007, at 9:50 PM, Ron Hawkins wrote:
Ed,
Microsoft Outlook
CTRL-A
DELETE
6338 emails deleted in three keystrokes
Ron
In anycase I had a friend who was working on a web mail problem (long
Also ISPF was a very powerful
tool in its day. Today the IDE's available for many of the
environments allow people to be far more productive and give far
better value for the money.
I disagree. If the proper tools are installed, there is no reason why
developing on big iron is any less
Don Leahy wrote:
Also ISPF was a very powerful
tool in its day. Today the IDE's available for many of the
environments allow people to be far more productive and give far
better value for the money.
I disagree. If the proper tools are installed, there is no reason why
developing on big
Of course, there are always wish list items, but why do you say ISPF out of
the bag isn't very productive?
Actually, I have the same question.
I have used ISPF since it was only one piece and called SPF.
It is very productive, even in vanilla.
But, you have to proficient in it.
If you've never
Of course, there are always wish list items, but why do you
say ISPF out of the bag isn't very productive?
Kind regards,
-Steve Comstock
Where do I begin? :-)
First off, I don't want to come off sounding harsh; I have been happily
using ISPF for over 25 years. And, I realize that life
Of course, there are always wish list items, but why do you say ISPF out
of the bag isn't very productive?
Actually, I have the same question.
I have used ISPF since it was only one piece and called SPF.
It is very productive, even in vanilla.
But, you have to proficient in it.
If you've never
Don Leahy wrote:
Of course, there are always wish list items, but why do you
say ISPF out of the bag isn't very productive?
Kind regards,
-Steve Comstock
Where do I begin? :-)
First off, I don't want to come off sounding harsh; I have been happily
using ISPF for over 25 years. And, I
On Mar 25, 2007, at 4:45 PM, Don Leahy wrote:
SNIP-
So, if you've never seen SimpList or Spiffy before, check them out
and see for yourself.
I worked for a short time with SPIFFY and it was pure pain. Once I
figured out how to get rid of it I never looked back. But
I worked for a short time with SPIFFY and it was pure pain. Once I figured
out how to get rid of it I never looked back. But to each his own I have
seen several so called productivity enhancers for ISPF and I found all of
them a pain to use. Yes I am spoiled ISPF user and I don't use
ISPF forces you to remember a *lot* of data set names.
You can set up personal dataset lists, or write a front end to the editor, or...
The point is, you are not 'forced' to do anything.
I have written many applications, myself, for ISPF, and, I see no need for
SPIFFY (or SIMPLIST --
using five or six named split screens (out of a possible 32)
IIRC, the possible is a config option.
I worked at one place where we could only get 8.
Long live ISPF -- I've worked with it since Feb 1981.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
I have hundreds of different DB2 tables that I need to look at. I use SPUFI
all the time, but keeping track of table names on scraps of paper is yet
another productivity drain.
Why is this a limitation to ISPF?
ISPF doesn't maintain DB2 tables; DB2 does.
Write an application, maintain it,
On 23 Mar 2007 15:04:17 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
muich snipped
Maybe I need to clarify my position from earlier this afternoon: I'm not
saying
that IBM doesn't listen to smaller customers, or even to individual sysprogs.
I
have certainly had a good run getting results
development environments being vastly improved on other platforms and
the reliability getting to the mainframe status.
disagree about the reliability on the tinker toy platform. I can't count the
number of times that I have seen:
rebooted server xyz, or did an iis reset
if I had a dollar for
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