In
624206278-1264692422-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-3344620...@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry,
on 01/28/2010
at 03:27 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca said:
Why is that not likely?
I've always allowed it.
And of course the world revolves around you. Whether it is likely depends
I'd be interested to know in your conversions from PDSEs to PDSs, how you
converted library objects to load modules?
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote:
And I asked you to elaborate what you thought the problems were
related specifically to non-SMS PDSEs vs.
I'd be interested to know in your conversions from PDSEs to PDSs, how you
converted library objects to load modules?
I thought I mentioned it in a previous post.
We converted what we could, and left the rest.
There were some that could NOT be converted, which displeased our MVS Team.
We also
Large parts of the OS are delivered and run from non-SMS PDSE these
days.
How much of an issue can it be?
We had a lot of integrity an broken code a couple of years ago.
And, it took a long time to get it fixed.
We ended up converting a lot of PDSE files back to PDS.
Yes. We were current.
For us,
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:30:41 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote:
Large parts of the OS are delivered and run from non-SMS PDSE these
days.
How much of an issue can it be?
We had a lot of integrity an broken code a couple of years ago.
And, it took a long time to get it fixed.
We ended
And I asked you to elaborate what you thought the problems were
related specifically to non-SMS PDSEs vs. SMS controlled.
So far, I haven't heard any.
I'm sorry I dropped the phrase non-SMS.
Were the problems you refer to above related specifically to non-SMS
PDSEs, or PDSEs in general? I
A better choice of words might have been Your storage admin may have coded the
acs routine to accept a management class value passed in via jcl but don't
count on it.
Still begs the same question.
Why not?
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
W dniu 2010-01-28 16:27, Ted MacNEIL pisze:
Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management class
value passed in via jcl but not likely.
Why is that not likely?
I've always allowed it.
I never allow it, I also teach why people should avoid that. Of course
some
W dniu 2010-01-29 12:45, Ted MacNEIL pisze:
A better choice of words might have been Your storage admin may have coded the
acs routine to accept a management class value passed in via jcl but don't
count on it.
Still begs the same question.
Why not?
Because 90% users has very little idea
-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
A better choice of words might have been Your storage admin may have
coded
the acs routine to accept a management class value passed in via jcl but
don't
count on it.
Still begs the same question.
Why not?
-
Too busy
Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management class
value passed in via jcl but not likely.
Why is that not likely?
I've always allowed it.
Especially, since you can over-ride it with IDCAMS.
Most of the time, I've found people don't take the effort to change/control
Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management
class value passed in via jcl but not likely.
Why is that not likely?
I've always allowed it.
Especially, since you can over-ride it with IDCAMS.
Most of the time, I've found people don't take the effort to change/control
Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.
Care to elaborate on what you think those issues are?
There is the buffering/potential corruption of shared PDSE's.
The 100's of PTF's that came out a few years ago.
And, the separate code streams to manage them within and without SMS.
Aside
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 21:34:53 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote:
Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.
Care to elaborate on what you think those issues are?
There is the buffering/potential corruption of shared PDSE's.
Nothing to do with SMS vs. NON-SMS PDSE.
The 100's of
When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Hal Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
Thanks all
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Hal Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re
@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?
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This seems to be a quibble about definition.
In my view, a secular growth in the number of extents, disproportionate to
the actual content of data, counts as fragmentation.
Yes! But, it's a difference that makes no difference.
Fragmentation is no longer a performance issue.
Extent consolidation
We have elected to use a storage group that is not SMS managed so that the
management class release does not apply.
That is not necessarily a good choice!
Rather, you should use SMS as much as possible to reduce your time and cost
having non-storage types managing storage.
You'd be better
In a message dated 1/27/2010 3:42:39 P.M. Central Standard Time,
barry.a.schw...@boeing.com writes:
When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?
PUB,PRIV, STOR??? VATLSTnn...
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On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:20:35 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote:
Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.
Care to elaborate on what you think those issues are?
Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group
:54
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
Beats me. My SMS guy is pretty sharp. I could ask, but I'm not sure I'd
understand the answer :-)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Schwarz, Barry
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:43:59 -0800, Ron Hawkins wrote:
If your Storage Admin has PDS and/or PDS-E in a Management Class with
Partial Release =YES_IMMED then make sure you beat him/her around the
Good answer :-)
Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter?
I used release immediate on a management class *once* and quickly changed it.
Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management class
value passed in via jcl but not likely. You can use idcams alter
snip
Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter?
/snip
As other have said, use a different MgmtClas (MC) is you can or make the
PDSe nonSMS and piss off everyone. Lots of time you can't allocate with a
different MC but you can ALTER the DSN after it's allocated.
Jack Kelly
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:30:27 -0600, Hal Merritt wrote:
Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can watch the space
allocation via ISPF 3.4. To our concernation, the allocated space shrinks as
the number of exents rises. No matter how much space we specify, the file
shrinks
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] RLSE pipe dream (was: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE)
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:30:27 -0600, Hal Merritt wrote:
Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can watch the
space
allocation via ISPF
- Original Message -
From: Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: RLSE pipe dream (was: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE)
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:30:27 -0600, Hal Merritt wrote:
Since the program repeatedly
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe that is allocated
new and empty at the beginning of the job by an IEFBR14 step.
Since the program repeatedly opens and closes
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:55:44 -0800, Ron Hawkins wrote:
The problem here is number of extents, not fragmentation. No-one gives a
toss about fragmentation on a PDS or PDS-E since the 3990-3.
This seems to be a quibble about definition. In my view, a
secular growth in the number of extents,
Gil,
All your extents can be contiguous so there is no fragmentation whatsoever.
You are hitting a boundary on the number of extents. You don't know, or care
if those extents are fragmented.
Extent = Space or degree to which a thing is extended
Fragment = A small part broken off or detached.
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:55:44 -0800, Ron Hawkins
ron.hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
You can't blame a golf club for your slice,
Some of us don't need to hear that :)
P
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I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe that is allocated
new and empty at the beginning of the job by an IEFBR14 step.
Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can watch the space
allocation via ISPF 3.4. To our concernation, the allocated space shrinks
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe
Good answer :-)
Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
McKown, John
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking
management class names.
Thank You,
Dave O'Brien
NIH Contractor
From: Hal Merritt [hmerr...@jackhenry.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
Good answer :-)
Now, how do I override
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
Good answer :-)
Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL
I'm guessing that somehow, somewhere, something is causing the effect of a
space release upon every close.
I am uncertian as to what to ask the programmer about his program, but I feel
like that's the root of my problem.
I doubt it's your programmer.
Check with your storeadmins.
Have they coded
Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter?
Only if your admins have a class without it.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
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...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
McKown, John
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
Sent
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:43:59 -0800, Ron Hawkins wrote:
If your Storage Admin has PDS and/or PDS-E in a Management Class with
Partial Release =YES_IMMED then make sure you beat him/her around the head a
few times with a baseball bat.
What a stupid thing to do.
Could this be realated to PK64372?
.
Ron
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 5:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:43:59 -0800, Ron Hawkins
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