Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Ed Gould wrote: I sent a request to the list owner on Nov 15th and here it is over 45 days later and he hasn't even acknowledged the request (I did get a say yes to send the message but that is not what I am asking about). Is the owner of IBM-MAIN alive or dead? Hmmm, Darren is retired, but I don't know whether he has delegated his responsibilities to someone else. You could try this http://www.lsoft.com/resources/listserv-community.asp?a=3 and see whether any owner of those e-mail addresses can help you to locate an owner of IBM-MAIN. Or try this University, which is hosting IBM-MAIN amongst lots of other list servs, contact list address: http://oit.ua.edu/oit/contact/ Warning: I have never used the resources listed in those pages. I even don't know how they will reply to you in a friendly way... ;-) Hopefully you can get help. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
DSENQSHR -- Caveats?
In reading the doc on DSENQSHR (in JCL, JES, GRS, etc.), I am wondering what the down side might be. If one is using a Production Control system of some kind, what pitfalls do you envision by allowing an ENQ to be demoted to non-exclusive (SHR)? I can see problems for restart if a file gets mangled during reorg, or delete/define/load that is detected by the next step which uses DISP=SHR as an example. Granted, that JOB should RUN with DSENQSHR=DISALLOW. Regards, Steve Thompson Humana, Inc. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material. If you receive this material/information in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: DSENQSHR -- Caveats?
One concern I might have is the fact some processes were set up with the following philosophy Submit all jobs at once, and the enqueue will keep them from running concurrently. One at a time will run. So, if you change even one job to be able to run concurrently instead of serially, it might create for some interesting events. This might make some companies rethink their job control processes. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 6:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: DSENQSHR -- Caveats? In reading the doc on DSENQSHR (in JCL, JES, GRS, etc.), I am wondering what the down side might be. If one is using a Production Control system of some kind, what pitfalls do you envision by allowing an ENQ to be demoted to non-exclusive (SHR)? I can see problems for restart if a file gets mangled during reorg, or delete/define/load that is detected by the next step which uses DISP=SHR as an example. Granted, that JOB should RUN with DSENQSHR=DISALLOW. Regards, Steve Thompson Humana, Inc. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: New XCF data sets
Hi, In general, the functional couple data sets (CFRM, ARM, SFM, etc) should be formatted to support the same number of systems as the sysplex CDS. So if you increase the number of systems supported by the sysplex CDS, you may also need to create new function CDS's as well. Mark A. Brooks z/OS Sysplex design and development 845-435-5149 T/L 8-295-5149 Poughkeepsie, NY mabr...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: DSENQSHR -- Caveats?
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 07:11:45 -0700, Lizette Koehler wrote: One concern I might have is the fact some processes were set up with the following philosophy Submit all jobs at once, and the enqueue will keep them from running concurrently. One at a time will run. So, if you change even one job to be able to run concurrently instead of serially, it might create for some interesting events. This might make some companies rethink their job control processes. If, perhaps, they allocate data sets EXC in an early step, then continue to update them in later steps with DISP=SHR. Isn't the default DISALLOW, which provides some protection through compatibility with older behavior? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Here the onus probandi clearly falls on those who assert that the owner of IBM-MAIN is defunct. The only evidence for this notion yet adduced is that he has not replied to an email message, and I do not find it persuasive: There are days when I omit to reply to many such. In passing, the [Latin] plural of 'onus' is 'onera', from which the [English] adjective 'onerous' is derived in the usual way. [Latin dropouts are of course free to use 'onuses' instead if they judge it felicitous.]The form 'oner' has no standing. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
As so stated by Mr Gilmore, Ed's typo was obvious. As to getting a reply, I have my doubts. Ed's comments about/to Darren have often been rude, or as Elardus more politely put it: I even don't know how they will reply to you in a friendly way... ;-) Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you write. The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance. This Forum is thankfully a witness to that. ALH -Original Message- From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:17 Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? Here the onus probandi clearly falls on those who assert that the owner of IBM-MAIN is defunct. The only evidence for this notion yet adduced is that he has not replied to an email message, and I do not find it persuasive: There are days when I omit to reply to many such. In passing, the [Latin] plural of 'onus' is 'onera', from which the [English] adjective 'onerous' is derived in the usual way. [Latin dropouts are of course free to use 'onuses' instead if they judge it felicitous.]The form 'oner' has no standing. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes aledlhug...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you write. The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance. This Forum is thankfully a witness to that. The Angry young men have been replaced by the PIssed off old farts grin/. Jeff Dunham's Walter character is our leader. GRIN ALH -- This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough hunchbacks. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: DSENQSHR -- Caveats?
A bit off the direct topic, but I have a strongly ingrained habit of protecting my data sets in JCL explicitly. In order to do this, I actually insert a step at the end which is an IEFBR14 which contains a DD for each DSN which I want protected for the entire job with an explicit DISP=OLD. I also tend to put comments in the JCL when I switch from DISP=OLD to DISP=SHR which says something like (after the DD referencing the DSN): //* THIS IS THE LAST STEP WHICH UPDATES ... FURTHER STEPS ONLY READ IT. I prefer putting _good_ documentation into the actual run JCL because when a job dies, it can be a PAIN trying to find the restart information. Is it in a MS Word Doc file? Where? Oh, it is in CA-7 prose? Is it in a PDS? Where? Of course, strong (and unique) standards are helpful. We like good standards. That's why we change them all the time around here. Reminds me of my mom: Me: Mom, where's the ... Mom: It's where it belongs! Me: Where is that this week? On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 07:11:45 -0700, Lizette Koehler wrote: One concern I might have is the fact some processes were set up with the following philosophy Submit all jobs at once, and the enqueue will keep them from running concurrently. One at a time will run. So, if you change even one job to be able to run concurrently instead of serially, it might create for some interesting events. This might make some companies rethink their job control processes. If, perhaps, they allocate data sets EXC in an early step, then continue to update them in later steps with DISP=SHR. Isn't the default DISALLOW, which provides some protection through compatibility with older behavior? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough hunchbacks. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Re: Subject: I believe the noun form is onus, not oner. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: DSENQSHR -- Caveats?
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 10:31:05 -0600, John McKown wrote: ... I also tend to put comments in the JCL when I switch from DISP=OLD to DISP=SHR which says something like (after the DD referencing the DSN): //* THIS IS THE LAST STEP WHICH UPDATES ... FURTHER STEPS ONLY READ IT. Kinda makes you wish for an explicit DSNOPTS=O_RDONLY-type operand in allocating legacy data sets, doesn't it? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
On Jan 6, 2014, at 10:17 AM, John Gilmore wrote: Here the onus probandi clearly falls on those who assert that the owner of IBM-MAIN is defunct. The only evidence for this notion yet adduced is that he has not replied to an email message, and I do not find it persuasive: There are days when I omit to reply to many such. In passing, the [Latin] plural of 'onus' is 'onera', from which the [English] adjective 'onerous' is derived in the usual way. [Latin dropouts are of course free to use 'onuses' instead if they judge it felicitous.]The form 'oner' has no standing. John, The W Key on my keyboard is not working. The few days does not correspond in any universe that I am aware of to 45 days. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Gil: My error the W key on my keyboard is not working correctly. Ed On Jan 6, 2014, at 9:51 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: Re: Subject: I believe the noun form is onus, not oner. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
The W Key stopped working this AM. Sorry for not catching it. Ed On Jan 6, 2014, at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes wrote: As so stated by Mr Gilmore, Ed's typo was obvious. As to getting a reply, I have my doubts. Ed's comments about/to Darren have often been rude, or as Elardus more politely put it: I even don't know how they will reply to you in a friendly way... ;-) Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you write. The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance. This Forum is thankfully a witness to that. ALH -Original Message- From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:17 Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? Here the onus probandi clearly falls on those who assert that the owner of IBM-MAIN is defunct. The only evidence for this notion yet adduced is that he has not replied to an email message, and I do not find it persuasive: There are days when I omit to reply to many such. In passing, the [Latin] plural of 'onus' is 'onera', from which the [English] adjective 'onerous' is derived in the usual way. [Latin dropouts are of course free to use 'onuses' instead if they judge it felicitous.]The form 'oner' has no standing. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Scary Sysprogs; was: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Interesting segue this thread has taken... I recently attended an IBM meeting which addressed why young people are eschewing an IBM z/OS mainframe career in favor of other platforms, including other IBM platforms. This seems to be a very serious concern at IBM and possibly the greatest threat to the future of z/OS. The speaker was a woman from IBM who had been tasked by IBM management to study this. She presented selected conclusions from her assignment. Some results were what one would expect, many results were unexpected or at least not typically considered in the context of z/OS's continued viability. One of the top reasons graduating students from the best universities will not accept a position working on z/OS is how they feel they are (or will be) treated by z/OS old-timers, particularly systems programmers. This conclusion is supported by other data indicating that students who co-op'ed or interned in z/OS positions are far more likely to reject z/OS as a career as opposed to those graduates who have no experience with the z/OS environment (technically and socially). The prevailing conjecture for this phenomena is the relatively advanced age of z/OS people. There seems to be a phase in one's life and career where there is a natural desire to mentor young people. It is a time when young people are not your competition (you have accepted that you are no longer one of them) and you are aware of the knowledge and insights your work experiences have imbued you with and wish to express and share them with someone who can both appreciate and benefit from them. This phase eventually passes...obviously. The average age of z/OS people is far beyond the average age of other platforms' people. It is understandable that a bright graduating student, bursting with ideas and proud of his education, would do anything to avoid working with a group they perceive as dismissive, condescending and disrespectful curmudgeons. Memories of being chased off lawns by grumpy old men are still fresh in their minds. On occasion, I lecture at top universities and my small experience interacting with students bears this out. Students are in awe of IBM's technology (and they should be), but they don't want to work at any job where regaling tales of glory days of the past eclipses discussing bright new ideas from fresh minds. Students graduating now don't consider IBM mainframe technology as old and dying. They're too young to even remember the prognostications of the mainframe's demise. They fear the ancient guardians of the technology will simply stifle what they could do with it. Harry Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 10:39:20 -0600 From: john.archie.mck...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes aledlhug...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you write. The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance. This Forum is thankfully a witness to that. The Angry young men have been replaced by the PIssed off old farts grin/. Jeff Dunham's Walter character is our leader. GRIN ALH -- This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough hunchbacks. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TSO FULL SCREEN MODE UNDER ISPF
In !!AAAYAJXIDufoOyhGhgKtFLrs5tbCgAAAEHgHztPQ3sNJi6d9su/5f2IBAA==@optonline.net, on 01/05/2014 at 06:41 PM, MichealButz michealb...@optonline.net said: Would anyone know to display TSO FULL SCREEN UNDER ISPF What are you asking? How to wirite an ISPF dialog? How to run an existing non-SPF fullscreen command without interference from ISPF? How to wirite a non-SPF dullscreen command? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TSO FULL SCREEN MODE UNDER ISPF
In 1934743922114507.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on 01/05/2014 at 08:33 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: Bad design; wrong layering, but typical of IBM. Properly, the TSO command, full screen or line mode, should run in its split, perceiving a screen geometry matching the split. This is an example of why I would like to see integration between Session Manager and ISPF. However, in this case the problem is not the layering, or integrity, it's that the TGET/TPUT interface is designed to give the application full control of the terminal. What is needed[1] is some sort of virtual terminal mapped onto the 3270 screen by, e.g., VTIOC. [1] At least, the easiest fix. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TSO FULL SCREEN MODE UNDER ISPF
In 52ca46c4.7050...@phoenixsoftware.com, on 01/05/2014 at 10:01 PM, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com said: There is nothing special going on. Any program invoked as an ISPF application can use standard ISPF DISPLAY services The issue is a TSO fullscreen application, e.g.,SDSF, not some hypothetical program that detects that it was invoked via TSO ISPF and bypasses TGET/TPUT in favor of ISPF dialog services. SDSF doesn't behave that way. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
Harry has a good point. I am a 26 year old in the mainframe world, and came into an internship with the US DoD while in my Junior Year of college. I have seen, from the younger generation view that he pointed out, a fair amount of the dismissive and condescending attitudes in some of the seniors that I have worked with. That being said, there are also quite a few seniors that I have had the fortune of working with that have had quite the opposite affect on me personally, and they are the reason that I have, for a bit more than 5 years now stuck with a career working with z/OS. Maybe I am among the outliers in the research study alluded to, but I feel that all fields have a fair amount of people in both positions: those willing to share and listen, and those that are still trying to live the glory days of old being very quick to dismiss any new ideas...so I'm not sure that that is unique to the demographics of the z/OS Systems Programmer groups. That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Thanks; Nathan Pfister zOS Systems Programmer AES\PHEAA - Tech Services From: Harry Wahl harry_w...@hotmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 01/06/2014 01:34 PM Subject:Scary Sysprogs; was: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Interesting segue this thread has taken... I recently attended an IBM meeting which addressed why young people are eschewing an IBM z/OS mainframe career in favor of other platforms, including other IBM platforms. This seems to be a very serious concern at IBM and possibly the greatest threat to the future of z/OS. The speaker was a woman from IBM who had been tasked by IBM management to study this. She presented selected conclusions from her assignment. Some results were what one would expect, many results were unexpected or at least not typically considered in the context of z/OS's continued viability. One of the top reasons graduating students from the best universities will not accept a position working on z/OS is how they feel they are (or will be) treated by z/OS old-timers, particularly systems programmers. This conclusion is supported by other data indicating that students who co-op'ed or interned in z/OS positions are far more likely to reject z/OS as a career as opposed to those graduates who have no experience with the z/OS environment (technically and socially). The prevailing conjecture for this phenomena is the relatively advanced age of z/OS people. There seems to be a phase in one's life and career where there is a natural desire to mentor young people. It is a time when young people are not your competition (you have accepted that you are no longer one of them) and you are aware of the knowledge and insights your work experiences have imbued you with and wish to express and share them with someone who can both appreciate and benefit from them. This phase eventually passes...obviously. The average age of z/OS people is far beyond the average age of other platforms' people. It is understandable that a bright graduating student, bursting with ideas and proud of his education, would do anything to avoid working with a group they perceive as dismissive, condescending and disrespectful curmudgeons. Memories of being chased off lawns by grumpy old men are still fresh in their minds. On occasion, I lecture at top universities and my small experience interacting with students bears this out. Students are in awe of IBM's technology (and they should be), but they don't want to work at any job where regaling tales of glory days of the past eclipses discussing bright new ideas from fresh minds. Students graduating now don't consider IBM mainframe technology as old and dying. They're too young to even remember the prognostications of the mainframe's demise. They fear the ancient guardians of the technology will simply stifle what they could do with it. Harry Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 10:39:20 -0600 From: john.archie.mck...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes aledlhug...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you write. The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance. This Forum is thankfully a witness to that. The Angry young men have been replaced by the PIssed off old farts grin/. Jeff Dunham's Walter character is our leader. GRIN ALH -- This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough hunchbacks. Maranatha! John McKown
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
I received a private reply from Darren on September 27 of this past year. It implied he was still the list owner. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 10:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? The W Key stopped working this AM. Sorry for not catching it. Ed On Jan 6, 2014, at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes wrote: As so stated by Mr Gilmore, Ed's typo was obvious. As to getting a reply, I have my doubts. Ed's comments about/to Darren have often been rude, or as Elardus more politely put it: -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Nathan J Pfister wrote: SNIP___ That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Nathan: There are private sector companies that are similar (almost impossible to get fired). The cream does not rise to the top as the good people leave faster than one can get used to. The bad stifles all creativity and what is left is a garbage dump. SO I can only imagine what a government place is like and doubly wanting to stay away from such places. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TSO FULL SCREEN MODE UNDER ISPF
In 4676648172689488.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on 01/05/2014 at 08:39 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: *And* I believe SDSF stays in its split. No; SDSF only honors ISPF splits if you run it as an ISPF application. What Hank is talking about is running SDSF as a non-SPF command. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TSO FULL SCREEN MODE UNDER ISPF
In article 20140106182938.c8ed2f58...@smtp.patriot.net you wrote: In 52ca46c4.7050...@phoenixsoftware.com, on 01/05/2014 at 10:01 PM, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com said: There is nothing special going on. Any program invoked as an ISPF application can use standard ISPF DISPLAY services The issue is a TSO fullscreen application, e.g.,SDSF, not some hypothetical program that detects that it was invoked via TSO ISPF and bypasses TGET/TPUT in favor of ISPF dialog services. SDSF doesn't behave that way. Sure it does. Has done for quite a while now. From the help file: --- SDSF can also be invoked as an ISPF dialog. When SDSF is invoked as an ISPF dialog, you can use ISPF services such as split screen during ISPF. However, when you invoke SDSF as a TSO command processor using the SDSF command, split screen is not available. --- Both SDSF and ISFISP are aliases of ISFINIT. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive sas...@sas.com (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
I have been a sys prog or ISV developer for over 45 years. I have always HATED it when someone says We have always done it this way, or the like. Tell me why the old way is better or why the new way won't work. We all need to open up our minds to new ideas. Most of the people I work with are half my age, some a third. I always look at what they come up with with a positive how can we make this work attitude. Some ideas do work and some don't and some aren't any better than what exists, but they all deserve the light of day. We can still be grumpy old men, just don't stifle anybody's creativeness and try to be nice to the younger crowd until they get to know you. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Nathan J Pfister wrote: SNIP___ That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Nathan: There are private sector companies that are similar (almost impossible to get fired). The cream does not rise to the top as the good people leave faster than one can get used to. The bad stifles all creativity and what is left is a garbage dump. SO I can only imagine what a government place is like and doubly wanting to stay away from such places. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
Well said! I've worked with several bunches of kids over the last 15 years and, while they often need education about better ways to do things (no, you really DO NOT want to slam that change into production at 2PM on a Friday before you leave town...), once you explain why, they usually get it. And sometimes they have better ideas. Until you're omniscient, don't act like you are (and if you are, why aren't you rich?). On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Blaicher, Christopher Y. cblaic...@syncsort.com wrote: I have been a sys prog or ISV developer for over 45 years. I have always HATED it when someone says We have always done it this way, or the like. Tell me why the old way is better or why the new way won't work. We all need to open up our minds to new ideas. Most of the people I work with are half my age, some a third. I always look at what they come up with with a positive how can we make this work attitude. Some ideas do work and some don't and some aren't any better than what exists, but they all deserve the light of day. We can still be grumpy old men, just don't stifle anybody's creativeness and try to be nice to the younger crowd until they get to know you. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Nathan J Pfister wrote: SNIP___ That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Nathan: There are private sector companies that are similar (almost impossible to get fired). The cream does not rise to the top as the good people leave faster than one can get used to. The bad stifles all creativity and what is left is a garbage dump. SO I can only imagine what a government place is like and doubly wanting to stay away from such places. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TSO FULL SCREEN MODE UNDER ISPF
On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 22:01:40 -0800, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/5/2014 6:39 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: *And* I believe SDSF stays in its split. *And* I believe it allows SWAP to another split. But that's not fair; SDSF is somehow ISPF-savvy, not just a plain ol' TSO fullscreen application. SDSF recognizes and satisfies a special requirement in order to do this. There is nothing special going on. Any program invoked as an ISPF application can use standard ISPF DISPLAY services to stay in its split and allow SWAP to another split. Any program can check how it was invoked and bifurcate its presentation logic paths as needed. While that's true for unauthorized programs, SDSF needs to runs authorized, and there's actually a fair amount of special stuff going on under the covers. Your more typical authorized program cannot interact with the user via ISPF services as SDSF does. It takes a lot of work (design and programming) to allow that while maintaining system integrity. -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
Christopher, I Guess I agree with you however there is *USUALLY* a good reason for doing it and the people do not want to take 30 minutes to explain as they have other things to do. While I agree with you when there is really no reason quite often there are. Ed On Jan 6, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Blaicher, Christopher Y. wrote: I have been a sys prog or ISV developer for over 45 years. I have always HATED it when someone says We have always done it this way, or the like. Tell me why the old way is better or why the new way won't work. We all need to open up our minds to new ideas. Most of the people I work with are half my age, some a third. I always look at what they come up with with a positive how can we make this work attitude. Some ideas do work and some don't and some aren't any better than what exists, but they all deserve the light of day. We can still be grumpy old men, just don't stifle anybody's creativeness and try to be nice to the younger crowd until they get to know you. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Nathan J Pfister wrote: SNIP___ That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Nathan: There are private sector companies that are similar (almost impossible to get fired). The cream does not rise to the top as the good people leave faster than one can get used to. The bad stifles all creativity and what is left is a garbage dump. SO I can only imagine what a government place is like and doubly wanting to stay away from such places. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids'....
I have written a book that explains the 'mainframe mindset'. I think it really explains our thinking, in a way that the 'kids' really need to hear, and understand, before they (continue to) make all those mistakes we might've made, 'way back when... My main point is: that mainframe systems (software AND hardware) were built expecting problems, and that makes them so robust. That is contrasted to many non-main-framers who start problem-solving AFTER a problem occurs (collecting data, recreating the problem, etc). I think the point is fundamental. The book is: First Fault Software Problem Solving: A Guide for Engineers, Managers and Users, available in paper and e-book on amazon, and other places (Safari library online). The ISBN number is 1906717427. I have been trying to get this in front of 'the kids', and get it accepted by many of my senior colleagues, endorsed as 'that's important, Dan'. What do YOU (all) think? Am I off base? is it as significant (as I think it is)? There aren't too many books (I've looked) that explain THIS point. It is somewhat light reading - with concepts, arguments, examples of bullet-proof constructions, even on non-mainframe platforms (yes, there are some, not so many...), and illustrations/cartoons. What do you all think? Is reaching the 'kids' important? I think it is. I think z/OS and its related third-party products will have few supporters once us senior baby-boomer main-framers start retiring (hahaha) in 3 to 5 years. Unless we start collaborating with 'the kids', NOW. Dan (I apologize in advance for this 'commercial' message. Trust me, even if you all buy the book, it won't be so lucrative for me. Books rarely make authors rich, unless..). -Original Message- From: Blaicher, Christopher Y. cblaic...@syncsort.com Sent: Jan 6, 2014 3:15 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs I have been a sys prog or ISV developer for over 45 years. I have always HATED it when someone says We have always done it this way, or the like. Tell me why the old way is better or why the new way won't work. We all need to open up our minds to new ideas. Most of the people I work with are half my age, some a third. I always look at what they come up with with a positive how can we make this work attitude. Some ideas do work and some don't and some aren't any better than what exists, but they all deserve the light of day. We can still be grumpy old men, just don't stifle anybody's creativeness and try to be nice to the younger crowd until they get to know you. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Nathan J Pfister wrote: SNIP___ That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Nathan: There are private sector companies that are similar (almost impossible to get fired). The cream does not rise to the top as the good people leave faster than one can get used to. The bad stifles all creativity and what is left is a garbage dump. SO I can only imagine what a government place is like and doubly wanting to stay away from such places. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Thank you, Dan Dan Skwire home phone 941-378-2383 cell phone 941-400-7632 office phone 941-227-6612 primary email: dskw...@mindspring.com secondary email: dskw...@gmail.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
John, Love Jeff Dunham..Walter and peanut Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:39 AM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes aledlhug...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you write. The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance. This Forum is thankfully a witness to that. The Angry young men have been replaced by the PIssed off old farts grin/. Jeff Dunham's Walter character is our leader. GRIN ALH -- This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough hunchbacks. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids'....
Ed, Dan, et al I missed the education part in my message. Yes, there are often good reasons for doing something and not doing something else, but it needs to be done as educational, not a put down. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Skwire Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 3:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids' I have written a book that explains the 'mainframe mindset'. I think it really explains our thinking, in a way that the 'kids' really need to hear, and understand, before they (continue to) make all those mistakes we might've made, 'way back when... My main point is: that mainframe systems (software AND hardware) were built expecting problems, and that makes them so robust. That is contrasted to many non-main-framers who start problem-solving AFTER a problem occurs (collecting data, recreating the problem, etc). I think the point is fundamental. The book is: First Fault Software Problem Solving: A Guide for Engineers, Managers and Users, available in paper and e-book on amazon, and other places (Safari library online). The ISBN number is 1906717427. I have been trying to get this in front of 'the kids', and get it accepted by many of my senior colleagues, endorsed as 'that's important, Dan'. What do YOU (all) think? Am I off base? is it as significant (as I think it is)? There aren't too many books (I've looked) that explain THIS point. It is somewhat light reading - with concepts, arguments, examples of bullet-proof constructions, even on non-mainframe platforms (yes, there are some, not so many...), and illustrations/cartoons. What do you all think? Is reaching the 'kids' important? I think it is. I think z/OS and its related third-party products will have few supporters once us senior baby-boomer main-framers start retiring (hahaha) in 3 to 5 years. Unless we start collaborating with 'the kids', NOW. Dan (I apologize in advance for this 'commercial' message. Trust me, even if you all buy the book, it won't be so lucrative for me. Books rarely make authors rich, unless..). -Original Message- From: Blaicher, Christopher Y. cblaic...@syncsort.com Sent: Jan 6, 2014 3:15 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs I have been a sys prog or ISV developer for over 45 years. I have always HATED it when someone says We have always done it this way, or the like. Tell me why the old way is better or why the new way won't work. We all need to open up our minds to new ideas. Most of the people I work with are half my age, some a third. I always look at what they come up with with a positive how can we make this work attitude. Some ideas do work and some don't and some aren't any better than what exists, but they all deserve the light of day. We can still be grumpy old men, just don't stifle anybody's creativeness and try to be nice to the younger crowd until they get to know you. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Nathan J Pfister wrote: SNIP___ That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Nathan: There are private sector companies that are similar (almost impossible to get fired). The cream does not rise to the top as the good people leave faster than one can get used to. The bad stifles all creativity and what is left is a garbage dump. SO I can only imagine what a government place is like and doubly wanting to stay away from such places. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Thank you, Dan Dan Skwire home phone 941-378-2383 cell phone 941-400-7632 office phone 941-227-6612 primary email: dskw...@mindspring.com secondary email:
Re: Scary Sysprogs
Chris, I agree, a lot of the young kids don't want to dig thru doc , research or learn how hardware and software work. If it ain't a gui and using JVM , well ...I learned macro level cobol for CICS , by a guy showing and telling you how it worked ..if you asked a second time, his response, you weren't listening the first time. We also had access to source code and that's how we learned a lot about CICS guts, it's inter-workings, then we managed to go to IBM class if we were lucky. I busted my ... To get into systems programming and then development, I earned mine like a lot of other girls and guys. Bottomline, I feel you have to earn it. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD On Jan 6, 2014, at 3:15 PM, Blaicher, Christopher Y. cblaic...@syncsort.com wrote: I have been a sys prog or ISV developer for over 45 years. I have always HATED it when someone says We have always done it this way, or the like. Tell me why the old way is better or why the new way won't work. We all need to open up our minds to new ideas. Most of the people I work with are half my age, some a third. I always look at what they come up with with a positive how can we make this work attitude. Some ideas do work and some don't and some aren't any better than what exists, but they all deserve the light of day. We can still be grumpy old men, just don't stifle anybody's creativeness and try to be nice to the younger crowd until they get to know you. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Nathan J Pfister wrote: SNIP___ That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. Nathan: There are private sector companies that are similar (almost impossible to get fired). The cream does not rise to the top as the good people leave faster than one can get used to. The bad stifles all creativity and what is left is a garbage dump. SO I can only imagine what a government place is like and doubly wanting to stay away from such places. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Chris, I agree, a lot of the young kids don't want to dig thru doc , research or learn how hardware and software work. If it ain't a gui and using JVM , well ...I learned macro level cobol for CICS , by a guy showing and telling you how it worked ..if you asked a second time, his response, you weren't listening the first time. We also had access to source code and that's how we learned a lot about CICS guts, it's inter-workings, then we managed to go to IBM class if we were lucky. Part of the problem is likely today's culture. It is a I want it _now_! society. Along with And I want it _cheap_!. This is not just the kids. A lot of it is from upper management. In many companies today, managers don't consider the company an investment in their future. They want this year's bonus and if that means sacrificing next year's business, then so be it. Young people get pushed to be productive. Which to management usually means get something into the users' hands NOW and get them off my back. I busted my ... To get into systems programming and then development, I earned mine like a lot of other girls and guys. Bottomline, I feel you have to earn it. IMO, if you want to find the people who are willing work hard and learn, look in the FOSS arena. Most of those people are driven to scratch their own itch, not just make a buck. Of course, they also want peer approval. Not that all of them are pleasant. Look at some of Linux Thorvald's (father of Linux) posts to others. Talk about nasty language. Makes all the posts here seem like the words of saints. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD -- This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough hunchbacks. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards to approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application more friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... Any advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
Take a look at IMS connect which enables API for Java or C code. You will need a good understanding of your IMS database structures On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Sanya Off sanya...@gmail.com wrote: Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards to approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application more friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... Any advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Wayne V. Bickerdike -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
Hello, One option is to modernize (convert/migrate) the application(s) to a more updated environment (Windows SQL/Server, UNIX Oracle, etc.). Through the use of a proven automated tool suite set, this can be done via a relatively quick and complete process using a vendor I partner with. If you want to talk about this offline, please drop me a private email reply. Respectfully, Mitch McCluhan, Legacy Modernization Consultant -Original Message- From: Sanya Off sanya...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Mon, Jan 6, 2014 2:06 pm Subject: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards o approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application ore friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... ny advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- or IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, end email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
As usual, it depends on how far forward the original monster application' designers looked (or not...). If the core business logic is separated from the presentation layer (i.e., if the business logic is well separated from the 3270 screen processing logic), it might be possible to directly re-engineer it with an HTML layer in place of the 3270 layer. If the screen-handling and the business logic are tightly woven together, not so easy at all. I have no experience at all with IMS applications, much less with interfacing them to web browsers, but if the business function is well separated from the user interaction parts, it should be possible. Such projects are never easy, though. Sometimes, unfortunately, the best decision (financially and time-wise) is to start over from scratch. For a staff with limited z/OS skills, that could result in a project to move completely off of z/OS. Those kinds of projects have a very high rate of failure. One other possibility is the use of one of the several 3270-to-browser conversion products I think are out there, which (if I understand the functions provided) take your 3270 screen inputs and outputs and convert them back and forth in a web browser. Not pretty, and almost certainly affects round-trip time from enter to results screen, but supposedly quite functional. All I can say is good luck. You're going to need it. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sanya Off Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 4:56 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards to approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application more friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... Any advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
Peter (et al): I have only one comment in regards to your thoughts (below). when you say projects to move off the mainframe have a high rate of failure, it depends on how it is done. One of the vendors I work with has superior success rates in regards to conversion/migration from a mainframe to an LUW environment. Regards, Mitch -Original Message- From: Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Mon, Jan 6, 2014 2:51 pm Subject: Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application As usual, it depends on how far forward the original monster application' esigners looked (or not...). If the core business logic is separated from the presentation layer (i.e., if the business logic is well separated from the 270 screen processing logic), it might be possible to directly re-engineer it ith an HTML layer in place of the 3270 layer. If the screen-handling and the business logic are tightly woven together, not so asy at all. I have no experience at all with IMS applications, much less with interfacing hem to web browsers, but if the business function is well separated from the user interaction parts, it should be possible. Such projects are never easy, though. Sometimes, unfortunately, the best ecision (financially and time-wise) is to start over from scratch. For a staff ith limited z/OS skills, that could result in a project to move completely off f z/OS. Those kinds of projects have a very high rate of failure. One other possibility is the use of one of the several 3270-to-browser onversion products I think are out there, which (if I understand the functions rovided) take your 3270 screen inputs and outputs and convert them back and orth in a web browser. Not pretty, and almost certainly affects round-trip ime from enter to results screen, but supposedly quite functional. All I can say is good luck. You're going to need it. Peter -Original Message- rom: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf f Sanya Off ent: Monday, January 06, 2014 4:56 PM o: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU ubject: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards o approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application ore friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... ny advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- or IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, end email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee nd may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader f the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of he intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this ommunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in rror, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any ttachments from your system. -- or IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, end email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids'....
This mainframe mindset at both the hardware and software levels is a critical component of the stability of z/OS. The slow evolution of MS Windows shows how difficult it must be to design this kind of capability into an environment after the fact. But admittedly one of the problems MS has had to deal with is that most of the Intel platforms on which Windows runs lack the robust hardware error detection and recovery capabilities that are taken for granted in z/OS environments. The first step to successful diagnosing and repair of a software failure is to be certain it IS a software issue and not some random hardware glitch. This is made more difficult in the Intel world by the very thing that makes these platforms affordable - a multitude of manufacturers of motherboards, memory, hardware interface cards and peripherals all applying their own concept of acceptable engineering design while trying to make fast and cheap hardware. The last time I saw a hardware error on an IBM mainframe that was undetected by the hardware was in the late 1970's. Although I had at least one instance per year when an application programmer would swear that the hardware or system had executed their code incorrectly, it was always an application coding error. One can pretty much discount the possibility of a hardware error event on an IBM mainframe unless the hardware reports a problem. I have seen strangeness even in the last decade with Intel platforms that suggested some undetected glitch, perhaps power-induced, had caused a random failure in a memory card or some other hardware component. Unlike IBM mainframes, one cannot yet rule out that a failure on these platforms may have been caused by a hardware problem. I suspect that an even higher incidence of hardware failures on these platforms in the past may have been responsible for originating the fix-after-multiple-failure mentality, since a single failure could always be written off as a random hardware glitch. Joel C. Ewing On 01/06/2014 02:42 PM, Dan Skwire wrote: I have written a book that explains the 'mainframe mindset'. I think it really explains our thinking, in a way that the 'kids' really need to hear, and understand, before they (continue to) make all those mistakes we might've made, 'way back when... My main point is: that mainframe systems (software AND hardware) were built expecting problems, and that makes them so robust. That is contrasted to many non-main-framers who start problem-solving AFTER a problem occurs (collecting data, recreating the problem, etc). I think the point is fundamental. The book is: First Fault Software Problem Solving: A Guide for Engineers, Managers and Users, available in paper and e-book on amazon, and other places (Safari library online). The ISBN number is 1906717427. I have been trying to get this in front of 'the kids', and get it accepted by many of my senior colleagues, endorsed as 'that's important, Dan'. What do YOU (all) think? Am I off base? is it as significant (as I think it is)? There aren't too many books (I've looked) that explain THIS point. It is somewhat light reading - with concepts, arguments, examples of bullet-proof constructions, even on non-mainframe platforms (yes, there are some, not so many...), and illustrations/cartoons. What do you all think? Is reaching the 'kids' important? I think it is. I think z/OS and its related third-party products will have few supporters once us senior baby-boomer main-framers start retiring (hahaha) in 3 to 5 years. Unless we start collaborating with 'the kids', NOW. Dan (I apologize in advance for this 'commercial' message. Trust me, even if you all buy the book, it won't be so lucrative for me. Books rarely make authors rich, unless..). -Original Message- From: Blaicher, Christopher Y. cblaic...@syncsort.com Sent: Jan 6, 2014 3:15 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs I have been a sys prog or ISV developer for over 45 years. I have always HATED it when someone says We have always done it this way, or the like. Tell me why the old way is better or why the new way won't work. We all need to open up our minds to new ideas. Most of the people I work with are half my age, some a third. I always look at what they come up with with a positive how can we make this work attitude. Some ideas do work and some don't and some aren't any better than what exists, but they all deserve the light of day. We can still be grumpy old men, just don't stifle anybody's creativeness and try to be nice to the younger crowd until they get to know you. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
A wise man once said only an idiot would junk a working application. The fact is there is a high failure rate converting mainframe applications. Even simple (in theory) conversions like moving to SAP fail to meet the project targets, usually going over budget. Migrations are another story. If you can just move the code and use copycat middleware it's a lot simpler. Peter is spot on. If you're lucky enough to have an application designed with separation of concerns the world is your oyster. You could put a web services REST API layer in place and the clients could be written in any language running in any environment, browser, mobile app etc. On 07/01/2014, at 6:56 AM, Mitch mitc...@aol.com wrote: Peter (et al): I have only one comment in regards to your thoughts (below). when you say projects to move off the mainframe have a high rate of failure, it depends on how it is done. One of the vendors I work with has superior success rates in regards to conversion/migration from a mainframe to an LUW environment. Regards, Mitch -Original Message- From: Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Mon, Jan 6, 2014 2:51 pm Subject: Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application As usual, it depends on how far forward the original monster application' esigners looked (or not...). If the core business logic is separated from the presentation layer (i.e., if the business logic is well separated from the 270 screen processing logic), it might be possible to directly re-engineer it ith an HTML layer in place of the 3270 layer. If the screen-handling and the business logic are tightly woven together, not so asy at all. I have no experience at all with IMS applications, much less with interfacing hem to web browsers, but if the business function is well separated from the user interaction parts, it should be possible. Such projects are never easy, though. Sometimes, unfortunately, the best ecision (financially and time-wise) is to start over from scratch. For a staff ith limited z/OS skills, that could result in a project to move completely off f z/OS. Those kinds of projects have a very high rate of failure. One other possibility is the use of one of the several 3270-to-browser onversion products I think are out there, which (if I understand the functions rovided) take your 3270 screen inputs and outputs and convert them back and orth in a web browser. Not pretty, and almost certainly affects round-trip ime from enter to results screen, but supposedly quite functional. All I can say is good luck. You're going to need it. Peter -Original Message- rom: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf f Sanya Off ent: Monday, January 06, 2014 4:56 PM o: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU ubject: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards o approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application ore friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... ny advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- or IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, end email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee nd may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader f the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of he intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this ommunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in rror, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any ttachments from your system. -- or IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, end email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
In the end, we each have only our own experiences to draw on, and we make judgments based on that experience. Your experiences are obviously different from mine, and I respect that. Due diligence is always required, but it is interesting to know there may be successes out there somewhere, FSVO success. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mitch Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:56 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application Peter (et al): I have only one comment in regards to your thoughts (below). when you say projects to move off the mainframe have a high rate of failure, it depends on how it is done. One of the vendors I work with has superior success rates in regards to conversion/migration from a mainframe to an LUW environment. Regards, Mitch -Original Message- From: Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Mon, Jan 6, 2014 2:51 pm Subject: Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application As usual, it depends on how far forward the original monster application' esigners looked (or not...). If the core business logic is separated from the presentation layer (i.e., if the business logic is well separated from the 270 screen processing logic), it might be possible to directly re-engineer it ith an HTML layer in place of the 3270 layer. If the screen-handling and the business logic are tightly woven together, not so asy at all. I have no experience at all with IMS applications, much less with interfacing hem to web browsers, but if the business function is well separated from the user interaction parts, it should be possible. Such projects are never easy, though. Sometimes, unfortunately, the best ecision (financially and time-wise) is to start over from scratch. For a staff ith limited z/OS skills, that could result in a project to move completely off f z/OS. Those kinds of projects have a very high rate of failure. One other possibility is the use of one of the several 3270-to-browser onversion products I think are out there, which (if I understand the functions rovided) take your 3270 screen inputs and outputs and convert them back and orth in a web browser. Not pretty, and almost certainly affects round-trip ime from enter to results screen, but supposedly quite functional. All I can say is good luck. You're going to need it. Peter -Original Message- rom: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf f Sanya Off ent: Monday, January 06, 2014 4:56 PM o: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU ubject: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards o approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application ore friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... ny advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
This might be a better topic on IMS Newsgroup. They may have ideas to make an old app look new. Also, be aware of any SLAs or performance concerns. Going to a server platform (LUW) might not always provide the best service. How many servers will it take to replace one mainframe? What are the costs in SLAs, downtime, heat/electricity, floor space, etc... How many more people will be required to support the app and the following arenas Development Performance QAT Testing And how much more storage will it take to support all these new platforms? IBM updated the old IBMLINK (VM) to a web based environment. And we are still complaining about performance, service, downtime of the application. We did not complain when it was the VM system. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sanya Off Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 2:56 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application Folks, I wonder if some of you may share the experience and opinions with regards to approaching a grand task of making an old IMS-based monster application more friendlier to users and developers: - users want web-based access; - developers are limited in their skills (particularly, z/OS skills) Specifically, I think of using MQ to intercept/separate 3270-bound flow... Any advice? I'd be grateful... A.I. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
On 1/6/2014 3:22 PM, Lizette Koehler wrote: IBM updated the old IBMLINK (VM) to a web based environment. And we are still complaining about performance, service, downtime of the application. We did not complain when it was the VM system. And they have spent and continue to spend $ millions to make it right. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
Something about silk purse and sow's ear comes to mind, but it may just be the cold! In a message dated 1/6/2014 5:33:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, edja...@phoenixsoftware.com writes: continue to spend $ millions to make it right -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
On 1/6/2014 5:22 PM, Lizette Koehler wrote: This might be a better topic on IMS Newsgroup. They may have ideas to make an old app look new. Also, be aware of any SLAs or performance concerns. Going to a server platform (LUW) might not always provide the best service. I am not sure SLA's really transfer. I have seen customers that demanded sub-second response on the mainframe accept multi-second response on WEB apps. Not that WEB apps can't be responsive, just what I have seen accepted. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Sometimes having too many onuses might make one ornery. Bill Fairchild - Original Message - From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 10:17:03 AM Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? Here the onus probandi clearly falls on those who assert that the owner of IBM-MAIN is defunct. The only evidence for this notion yet adduced is that he has not replied to an email message, and I do not find it persuasive: There are days when I omit to reply to many such. In passing, the [Latin] plural of 'onus' is 'onera', from which the [English] adjective 'onerous' is derived in the usual way. [Latin dropouts are of course free to use 'onuses' instead if they judge it felicitous.] The form 'oner' has no standing. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
Tnx folks. I did my homework before spilling my mail here. So i am aware of multiple approaches. I am still lokking for thr personal experiences. And. This is a 30 y.o. app On Jan 6, 2014 6:40 PM, Richard Peurifoy r-peuri...@neo.tamu.edu wrote: On 1/6/2014 5:22 PM, Lizette Koehler wrote: This might be a better topic on IMS Newsgroup. They may have ideas to make an old app look new. Also, be aware of any SLAs or performance concerns. Going to a server platform (LUW) might not always provide the best service. I am not sure SLA's really transfer. I have seen customers that demanded sub-second response on the mainframe accept multi-second response on WEB apps. Not that WEB apps can't be responsive, just what I have seen accepted. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
John, As always an excellent point. I think critical thinking and common sense is missing sometimes. Maybe my 63 yrs is showing Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD On Jan 6, 2014, at 4:10 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Chris, I agree, a lot of the young kids don't want to dig thru doc , research or learn how hardware and software work. If it ain't a gui and using JVM , well ...I learned macro level cobol for CICS , by a guy showing and telling you how it worked ..if you asked a second time, his response, you weren't listening the first time. We also had access to source code and that's how we learned a lot about CICS guts, it's inter-workings, then we managed to go to IBM class if we were lucky. Part of the problem is likely today's culture. It is a I want it _now_! society. Along with And I want it _cheap_!. This is not just the kids. A lot of it is from upper management. In many companies today, managers don't consider the company an investment in their future. They want this year's bonus and if that means sacrificing next year's business, then so be it. Young people get pushed to be productive. Which to management usually means get something into the users' hands NOW and get them off my back. I busted my ... To get into systems programming and then development, I earned mine like a lot of other girls and guys. Bottomline, I feel you have to earn it. IMO, if you want to find the people who are willing work hard and learn, look in the FOSS arena. Most of those people are driven to scratch their own itch, not just make a buck. Of course, they also want peer approval. Not that all of them are pleasant. Look at some of Linux Thorvald's (father of Linux) posts to others. Talk about nasty language. Makes all the posts here seem like the words of saints. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD -- This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough hunchbacks. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
Maybe you work on explaining what you are trying to do, more than a few words is highly helpful Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD On Jan 6, 2014, at 8:31 PM, Sanya Off sanya...@gmail.com wrote: Tnx folks. I did my homework before spilling my mail here. So i am aware of multiple approaches. I am still lokking for thr personal experiences. And. This is a 30 y.o. app On Jan 6, 2014 6:40 PM, Richard Peurifoy r-peuri...@neo.tamu.edu wrote: On 1/6/2014 5:22 PM, Lizette Koehler wrote: This might be a better topic on IMS Newsgroup. They may have ideas to make an old app look new. Also, be aware of any SLAs or performance concerns. Going to a server platform (LUW) might not always provide the best service. I am not sure SLA's really transfer. I have seen customers that demanded sub-second response on the mainframe accept multi-second response on WEB apps. Not that WEB apps can't be responsive, just what I have seen accepted. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
OT (But interesting IMO) 'BILLION-YEAR DISK' to help FUTURE LIFEFORMS study us
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/06/billionyear_disk/ Current 4TB hard drives can store data for about 10 years before the content starts decaying, the authors say. Tape will last a few decades and archival paper could last 500 years with the right environment. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scary Sysprogs
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 15:10:47 -0600, John McKown wrote: Look at some of Linux Thorvald's (father of Linux) posts to others. Linus Torvalds perchance ?. Shy, retiring wallflower ... yep, sounds just like your average sysprog. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Aled Hughes wrote: As so stated by Mr Gilmore, Ed's typo was obvious. About that dreaded typo, I simply see that w/W is missing from that word in the subject because the text was obvious and clear to me. I'm not a nitpick to comment about obvious typos. And no, I'm not going to fix this thread's subject. ;-) Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you write. The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance. And triggered a lot of scary posts... ;-D Elardus more politely put it: I even don't know how they will reply to you in a friendly way... ;-) Fact is, my comment is based upon an assumption that e-mails originating OUTSIDE the university community may be rejected at all, ie those listed mails are only for the university students and staff. This is also why I warned that I never tried out those resources. Now, off to the next scary post. ;-) Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
On 1/6/2014 5:31 PM, Sanya Off wrote: Tnx folks. I did my homework before spilling my mail here. So i am aware of multiple approaches. I am still lokking for thr personal experiences. And. This is a 30 y.o. app At UK GSE in November, one of the opening presenters was Tomas Kadlec, from Tesco - a very large Wal-Mart-like retailer in Europe. He presented an interesting slide show summarizing how they have transformed their z/OS database and application access from 3270 screens to web, tablet, and phone clients. It can be done - and done well... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
Yes, Ed, I'm still alive. Several things could have happened: 1) I missed your email amongst the 100's of IBM-MAIN email delivery rejection notices I receive daily. 2) I read your email and was going to respond later, but forgot. 3) I ignored you. Number 1 was probably itI think Darren On Sun, 5 Jan 2014, Ed Gould wrote: I sent a request to the list owner on Nov 15th and here it is over 45 days later and he hasn't even acknowledged the request (I did get a say yes to send the message but that is not what I am asking about). Is the owner of IBM-MAIN alive or dead? Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Innovating an old IMS 3270-based application
I'd like to ask a few simple questions as follow-up since the answers should help narrow the range options down substantially: 1A. Users want Web-based access, OK. May I assume that means (or could soon mean) mobile as well (iPads, Android devices, and so on)? 1B. Is there a requirement to continue to provide 3270-based user interfaces, i.e. dual access? Are there users who will continue to prefer those interfaces given their evolved/mature workflows? 1C. Besides direct human interactions with the applications, are there new, non-direct interactions that must be supported -- B2B, machine-to-machine, etc.? 2. Developers are limited in their skills, OK. Aside from the obvious get some other developers solution(*), what skills do the existing developers have? (*) A perfectly reasonable solution. For example, I don't have as many medical skills as I'd like, so sometimes I hire various medical professionals (doctors, nurses, etc.) to help. Timothy Sipples GMU VCT Architect Executive (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TSO FULL SCREEN MODE UNDER ISPF
On 1/6/2014 12:25 PM, Walt Farrell wrote: While that's true for unauthorized programs, SDSF needs to runs authorized, and there's actually a fair amount of special stuff going on under the covers. Your more typical authorized program cannot interact with the user via ISPF services as SDSF does. It takes a lot of work (design and programming) to allow that while maintaining system integrity. That special stuff is primarily mitigation of exposures in an old Field-Developed-Product (FDP) design that used a so-called magic SVC. Programs written today would likely not be designed that way. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
