Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

2017-02-20 Thread Barbara Nitz
Last time I looked at PDSE performance was before PDSE V2. And I checked 
specifically PDSEs with RECFM=VB. About 1 member in a 18000cyl PDSE 
library. ISPF 3.4 took about 90 seconds. That time was spent on I/O (reponse 
time about 4ms for each I/O).  During that time about 1 I/Os were done to 
that data set. AFAIK, the 'directory' of a PDSE is strewn in with the actual 
data (PDSEs used to use Media Manager Code for I/O, i.e. 4K blocks for each 
I/O). Adding the response time for the I/O more or less resulted in the 90 
seconds wait time.

I believe that inserting an entry is just finding the place where it belongs 
and adjusting the previous and next pointer(s).

As for HFS - in a former life we ran Lotus Notes on z/OS. Over time, 
performance in access to the HFS degraded. IBM recommended migrating to zFS. 
Bad Move. We ran into several zFS software problems and ended up going back to 
HFS. Lo and behold, performance was MUCH better on HFS then, probably because 
the migration back and forth had reorganized the underlying data structures.

As for caching: The SMSPDSE1 address space used to cache the 4K blocks. Which 
did not help at all, because back then the maximum cache available to SMSPDSE1 
was 16GB (I believe). We had about 10 of those large VB PDSE's, and together 
they were much bigger than the available cache, and SMSPDSE1 would cache the 
full 4K (which includes data). The nature of access was 'go search them all for 
a listing that fits', so it regularly took a long time since cache content in 
SMSPDSE1 got replaced. In production we ended up converting back to PDS because 
that was MUCH faster.

I have no idea how PDSE V2 compares to my experience. If I ever find the time I 
might test on a VB PDSE.

Barbara

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Re: Question on an HMC's ethernet adapter

2017-02-20 Thread Mike Myers

Dana:

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind when I replace the pci card. I probably 
wouldn't have thought of that.


Mike

On 02/20/2017 11:57 AM, Dana Mitchell wrote:

We recently had trouble with one of our HMC's ( a little newer than yours,  
ours is a 7327 tower)  but it also had one ethernet port on the motherboard and 
one on a pci card.  After an unrelated hardware problem and repair,  the OS  
wasn't recognizing the existence of the port on the motherboard, they finally 
figured out that it had to have the hmc code reinstalled to correct it...  
finicky beasts, these are

Dana

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 10:10:25 -0500, Mike Myers  wrote:


Radislaw:

Thanks for the idea. Actually, I am keeping the old HMC. What I am
trying to work out is if I can simply install an ethernet card in the
HMC to resolve the problem. I am about 2 hours remote from the HMC so I
have not been able to look at the model information other than it is a
mini-tower, which I remember from the last time I was there. Perwez
suggested that this model (8485) has an ethernet port on the motherboard
and another on a card?. I do know that the ethernet connection to the
outside network is working, as I can access the HMC remotely. So it
looks like the failure is on the private (HMC-SE) LAN side, especially
since I can't access the SE. I am hoping that a simple replacement of
the ethernet card (assuming there is one) will solve the problem.

Mike


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Re: TPROT question

2017-02-20 Thread Joseph Reichman
Thanks good to know as I using PGSER to get the storage back in 



> On Feb 20, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Adam Johanson  wrote:
> 
> One thing to watch for with TPROT (if you're looking at pageable storage) is 
> that you get the same condition code for storage that's paged out as you do 
> for storage that you can't access.
> 
> I can't speak confidently for what happens with DREF storage.
> 
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Re: TPROT question

2017-02-20 Thread Adam Johanson
One thing to watch for with TPROT (if you're looking at pageable storage) is 
that you get the same condition code for storage that's paged out as you do for 
storage that you can't access.

I can't speak confidently for what happens with DREF storage.

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Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

2017-02-20 Thread Jesse 1 Robinson
Although HFS is now deprecated in favor of ZFS, there are still a lot of HFS 
around, so a note might be in order. HFS is a special implementation of PDSE 
that is *not* subject to the single-volume restriction. We hit a problem early 
on with multivolume HFS when allocation failed despite doc to the contrary. IBM 
discovered that allocation logic was checking data set attributes in the wrong 
order. They were checking for 'PDSE' attribute before 'HFS' attribute and 
rejecting multivolume. The APAR fix reversed the order of checks, so 
multivolume HFS was OK. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 8:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

Many thanks for the follow-up Radoslaw.  I am pursuing the issue of creating an 
EAV of sufficient size for our purposes with our Storage Admins now.  
Unfortunately I do not know the limits (or even the HW vendor) of our DASD 
system, so I do not yet know what we will be able to do.

Fortunately our immediate issue is not member size but total dataset size, so 
using a V2 PDSE won’t be needed until we determine whether to use member 
generations or not.  That's a different can of worms.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 8:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

W dniu 2017-02-17 o 17:08, Farley, Peter x23353 pisze:
> Thanks for the reference, Tom.  But what about total PDSE size?  Can it 
> exceed 4Gb uncompressed?  Obviously compression is a viable option too, but 
> it would be helpful to know the actual cylinder/Gb size limit (assuming there 
> is one).


It's complex a little bit
PDSE was *never* constrained to 4GB or 64k TRK.
PDSE was and still is constrained to one volume. It can be 3390-9, so called 
mod-27 and mod-54 and EAV as well. The limit for EAV is 1TB now, it can be 
limited by your DASD configuration.

There is also a limit for PDSE member size. For PDSE v.1 it is 15 728
639 records (approx. 1.2GB for FB 80). However since z/OS 2.1 there is
v.2 of PDSE with limit for member at 2 146 435 071 records (approx. 171 GB for 
FB 80).

There is also a limit for number of members, it's 522 236.

For record purposes, limits of regular PDS are: single volume, 64k TRK per 
(single) volume). Member is limited only by the size of PDS, number of members 
are limited by directory size. Huge directory provides really poor performance.

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Re: Question on an HMC's ethernet adapter

2017-02-20 Thread Dana Mitchell
We recently had trouble with one of our HMC's ( a little newer than yours,  
ours is a 7327 tower)  but it also had one ethernet port on the motherboard and 
one on a pci card.  After an unrelated hardware problem and repair,  the OS  
wasn't recognizing the existence of the port on the motherboard, they finally 
figured out that it had to have the hmc code reinstalled to correct it...  
finicky beasts, these are

Dana

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 10:10:25 -0500, Mike Myers  wrote:

>Radislaw:
>
>Thanks for the idea. Actually, I am keeping the old HMC. What I am
>trying to work out is if I can simply install an ethernet card in the
>HMC to resolve the problem. I am about 2 hours remote from the HMC so I
>have not been able to look at the model information other than it is a
>mini-tower, which I remember from the last time I was there. Perwez
>suggested that this model (8485) has an ethernet port on the motherboard
>and another on a card?. I do know that the ethernet connection to the
>outside network is working, as I can access the HMC remotely. So it
>looks like the failure is on the private (HMC-SE) LAN side, especially
>since I can't access the SE. I am hoping that a simple replacement of
>the ethernet card (assuming there is one) will solve the problem.
>
>Mike
>

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Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

2017-02-20 Thread Farley, Peter x23353
Many thanks for the follow-up Radoslaw.  I am pursuing the issue of creating an 
EAV of sufficient size for our purposes with our Storage Admins now.  
Unfortunately I do not know the limits (or even the HW vendor) of our DASD 
system, so I do not yet know what we will be able to do.

Fortunately our immediate issue is not member size but total dataset size, so 
using a V2 PDSE won’t be needed until we determine whether to use member 
generations or not.  That's a different can of worms.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 8:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

W dniu 2017-02-17 o 17:08, Farley, Peter x23353 pisze:
> Thanks for the reference, Tom.  But what about total PDSE size?  Can it 
> exceed 4Gb uncompressed?  Obviously compression is a viable option too, but 
> it would be helpful to know the actual cylinder/Gb size limit (assuming there 
> is one).


It's complex a little bit
PDSE was *never* constrained to 4GB or 64k TRK.
PDSE was and still is constrained to one volume. It can be 3390-9, so 
called mod-27 and mod-54 and EAV as well. The limit for EAV is 1TB now, 
it can be limited by your DASD configuration.

There is also a limit for PDSE member size. For PDSE v.1 it is 15 728 
639 records (approx. 1.2GB for FB 80). However since z/OS 2.1 there is 
v.2 of PDSE with limit for member at 2 146 435 071 records (approx. 171 
GB for FB 80).

There is also a limit for number of members, it's 522 236.

For record purposes, limits of regular PDS are: single volume, 64k TRK 
per (single) volume). Member is limited only by the size of PDS, number 
of members are limited by directory size. Huge directory provides really 
poor performance.

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BPAM, PDSE, and HFS (was: Maximum size of a PDSE library)?

2017-02-20 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 09:09:05 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote:
>
>>> Huge directory provides really
>>> poor performance.
>>
>>Unless cached by LLA or another directory caching product.
>
>I'm not sure that helps much.
>
>The poor performance that Radoslaw mentioned is more on directory updates. 
>If you create a member (insert a directory entry), the last entry will 
>probably 
>be pushed off the end of the directory entry block. That entry will be moved 
>to the next block, and probably push the last entry off that block. This 
>process will continue to the end of the directory.
> 
Is this equally true for PDSE as for PDS?  Does a PDSE still have a directory
organized in 256-byte blocks?  Does SEARCH KEY HIGH OR EQUAL work
alike on PDSE pages?  (I know; it's NDA.)

BPAM supports UNIX directories, but read-only.  Still, what's the format
of the token used by NOTE and POINT for UNIX directory members?
Record number would be dreadfully inefficient for RECFM=VB.
How about for FILEDATA=RECORD?

>Similarly, if a member is deleted, the space that remains at the end of the 
>block 
>will probably be big enough to hold the first entry on the next track. If it 
>is, that 
>entry will be moved, leaving room at the end of that block. Again, if the 
>first 
>entry on the block after that one will fit, and it probably will, it is also 
>moved. 
>Again, this process continues to the end of the directory.
>
>The directory is always maintained in member name order, and all of the 
>directory 
>blocks except the last one are always kept as full as possible.
>
>For directory searches, SEARCH KEY HIGH OR EQUAL is used, allowing the 
>correct block to be read with a minimum of CPU processing and data transfer.
>
>-- 
>Tom Marchant
>
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Re: Question on an HMC's ethernet adapter

2017-02-20 Thread Mike Myers

Radislaw:

Thanks for the idea. Actually, I am keeping the old HMC. What I am 
trying to work out is if I can simply install an ethernet card in the 
HMC to resolve the problem. I am about 2 hours remote from the HMC so I 
have not been able to look at the model information other than it is a 
mini-tower, which I remember from the last time I was there. Perwez 
suggested that this model (8485) has an ethernet port on the motherboard 
and another on a card?. I do know that the ethernet connection to the 
outside network is working, as I can access the HMC remotely. So it 
looks like the failure is on the private (HMC-SE) LAN side, especially 
since I can't access the SE. I am hoping that a simple replacement of 
the ethernet card (assuming there is one) will solve the problem.


Mike

On 02/20/2017 08:53 AM, R.S. wrote:

W dniu 2017-02-19 o 02:55, Mike Myers pisze:

Hello all:

I have a remote client that has experienced an ethernet LAN adapter 
failure in their HMC and I won't be able to see the system until I 
travel there next week. Can anyone tell me if the adapter in an older 
HMC (for a z9) is likely to be anything other than a simple ethernet 
card? if you need any specific model information for the HMC, let me 
know and I will send what I have.


You want to swap a card from old (z9) HMC to a new (which one???) HMC. 
It is likely that won't work.


However there's another option: to plug some router to internal 
(HMC-SE) network. It can be considered unsafe, but actually the 
difference is not big (when compared with remoted access to HMC). In 
such scenario you would have access to both HMC and directly to SE. 
The later is needed for operations like "Load from DVD of ftp server".




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Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

2017-02-20 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On 2017-02-20, at 06:47, R.S. wrote:
> 
> There is also a limit for PDSE member size. For PDSE v.1 it is 15 728 639 
> records (approx. 1.2GB for FB 80). However since z/OS 2.1 there is v.2 of 
> PDSE with limit for member at 2 146 435 071 records (approx. 171 GB for FB 
> 80).
>  
I believe the tokes used by NOTE and POINT represents logical
records, not blocks.  So if one is processing multiple members,
the programmer should first POINT to the member, then POINT to
the record?  Can one still add one to the TTRZ to POINT to the
next block (whatever a "block" means)?

> For record purposes, limits of regular PDS are: single volume, 64k TRK per 
> (single) volume). Member is limited only by the size of PDS, number of 
> members are limited by directory size. Huge directory provides really poor 
> performance.
>  
Ouch!  I would hope for no worse than n log n.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Spolsky#Schlemiel_the_Painter.27s_algorithm

-- gil

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Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

2017-02-20 Thread Tom Marchant
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 14:36:06 +, Vernooij, Kees wrote:

>> Huge directory provides really
>> poor performance.
>
>Unless cached by LLA or another directory caching product.

I'm not sure that helps much.

The poor performance that Radoslaw mentioned is more on directory updates. 
If you create a member (insert a directory entry), the last entry will probably 
be pushed off the end of the directory entry block. That entry will be moved 
to the next block, and probably push the last entry off that block. This 
process will continue to the end of the directory.

Similarly, if a member is deleted, the space that remains at the end of the 
block 
will probably be big enough to hold the first entry on the next track. If it 
is, that 
entry will be moved, leaving room at the end of that block. Again, if the first 
entry on the block after that one will fit, and it probably will, it is also 
moved. 
Again, this process continues to the end of the directory.

The directory is always maintained in member name order, and all of the 
directory 
blocks except the last one are always kept as full as possible.

For directory searches, SEARCH KEY HIGH OR EQUAL is used, allowing the 
correct block to be read with a minimum of CPU processing and data transfer.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

2017-02-20 Thread Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
> Huge directory provides really
> poor performance.

Unless cached by LLA or another directory caching product.

> 
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
> 

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Re: Question on an HMC's ethernet adapter

2017-02-20 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2017-02-19 o 02:55, Mike Myers pisze:

Hello all:

I have a remote client that has experienced an ethernet LAN adapter 
failure in their HMC and I won't be able to see the system until I 
travel there next week. Can anyone tell me if the adapter in an older 
HMC (for a z9) is likely to be anything other than a simple ethernet 
card? if you need any specific model information for the HMC, let me 
know and I will send what I have.


You want to swap a card from old (z9) HMC to a new (which one???) HMC. 
It is likely that won't work.


However there's another option: to plug some router to internal (HMC-SE) 
network. It can be considered unsafe, but actually the difference is not 
big (when compared with remoted access to HMC). In such scenario you 
would have access to both HMC and directly to SE. The later is needed 
for operations like "Load from DVD of ftp server".


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






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Re: Wlm and adabas\complete

2017-02-20 Thread Brian France

Howdy Tim,

 We run all that here. Not sure what you're looking for but I can 
tell you how we use WLM here in conjunction with them. As you can 
imagine there's all sorts of schools of thoughts that work. Take this as 
it works here but not maybe not somewhere else.


Importance of 1, execution velocity of 40 for ADABAS, GBP

Importance of 1, execution velocity of 17 for COMPLETE, ETB ( broker )

Importance of 1, execution velocity of 8 for RPC servers

Resource group based on SU's - Day - 5k, Night - 7k for ADABAS, GBP

Resource group based on SU's - 4k COMPLETE, ETB

Resource group based on SU's - 3k


On 2/17/2017 2:57 PM, Neil Duffee wrote:

Caveat:  list digestion leads to delayed responses...

I'm surprised Lizette hasn't piped up already but I'll pass along that you 
would probably get a better response via sa...@listserv.uark.edu which is where 
the SAG clients hang out.  I've cc:'d them in this message.

Since we were DB2, Adabas (for Predict) was not a specialized WLM case for us.  
Perhaps others have done more detailed work.   We were using Transaction Goals for 
CICS especially to weed out the long-running transactions ie. OmegaMon, & Cics 
system tasks, so they didn't pollute the response times collection.  They were 
given 5-10% CPU goals but got carried along by the Transaction Goals since CICS is 
adjusted by WLM as an entire region.  I seem to recall there was some discussion in 
the SysProg WLM Guide Redbook to this effect.  [1]  I re-read the guide many times 
and found new insights [2] even after a few years had elapsed.

[1]  I created a 'medium' Goal with more relaxed response times intended for 
the lessor-preferred transactions but we never got around to making any 
distinction.
[2]  The biggest being that the goals should not be specified as 'What you want'.  Instead, they should be 
more, "when the stuff starts flying, I'd like these (acceptable) minimums, plz."  For example, 
instead of "I'd like this to get 80% CPU", you should say, "if things are bad, this could 
survive on 40% CPU.  I won't like it but we'll stay processing."  If you're not constrained, WLM will 
let you over-perform but if you artificially constrain it, it can't steal from other processes to smooth 
things out.  I especially like how WLM will temporarily boost a low-goal process that's holding 
up/enqueing/locking a higher process.  It shows up in the RMF report as below:

--PROMOTED--
BLK0.000
ENQ0.502
CRM0.000
LCK  230.133
SUP0.000

>  signature = 8 lines follows  <
Neil Duffee, Joe Sysprog, uOttawa, Ottawa, Ont, Canada
telephone:1 613 562 5800 x4585  fax:1 613 562 5161
mailto:NDuffee of uOttawa.ca http:/ /aix1.uOttawa.ca/ ~nduffee
"How *do* you plan for something like that?"  Guardian Bob, Reboot
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."
"Systems Programming: Guilty, until proven innocent"  John Norgauer 2004
"Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is 
attempted."  John McKown 2015


-Original Message-
From: Tim Brown [mailto:tbr...@cenhud.com]
Sent: February 15, 2017 19:58
Subject: Wlm and adabas\complete

Does anyone have experience with Adabas 8.3.3 and Sags complete product (Cics 
like) And wlm ?

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"To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

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Re: ICSF Question

2017-02-20 Thread Todd Arnold
You might want to look at the IBM Crypto Analytics Tool (CAT), offered by the 
excellent IBM crypto team in Denmark.  It is intended to analyze your crypto 
system and provide a variety of reports on many things you might need for 
system management, compliance, etc. (including things having to do with your 
keys).  There is a brief summary at this page, but it's quite old and I'm sure 
there is more current information somewhere:  
http://www-05.ibm.com/dk/security//products/ekmp-cat.html

Here is some summary information from that web page:

"The IBM Crypto Analytics Tool (CAT) is part of the IBM Enterprise Key 
Management Foundation EKMF) and has been developed to help provide up-to-date 
monitoring of crypto related information on the z Systems in the enterprise. 
CAT is designed to combine and present crypto information in a way that helps 
ensure compliance and policy enforcement. The CAT Agent collects cryptographic 
information across the enterprise that is then made available to the CAT 
Monitor running on your desktop. The CAT Monitor provides overviews, queries 
and reports to better manage the cryptographic setup.

...

CAT is designed to provide fast, reliable crypto information to help people in 
different roles of the organization make qualified decisions about crypto 
systems. CAT collects cryptographic information from across the enterprise and 
ensures that each crypto system is following best practices by providing:
  -A comprehensive overview of the cryptographic security of the system.
  -Up-to-date monitoring of crypto keys and functions.
  -Key data for better policy and compliance enforcement.
  -Awareness if key material used in testing has leaked into production 
environments.
  -A comparison of the current crypto state with a previous 'snapshot' for 
error and problem determination or change control validation."

Questions about CAT can be addressed to the Denmark team at c...@dk.ibm.com.

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Re: Maximum size of a PDSE library?

2017-02-20 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2017-02-17 o 17:08, Farley, Peter x23353 pisze:

Thanks for the reference, Tom.  But what about total PDSE size?  Can it exceed 
4Gb uncompressed?  Obviously compression is a viable option too, but it would 
be helpful to know the actual cylinder/Gb size limit (assuming there is one).



It's complex a little bit
PDSE was *never* constrained to 4GB or 64k TRK.
PDSE was and still is constrained to one volume. It can be 3390-9, so 
called mod-27 and mod-54 and EAV as well. The limit for EAV is 1TB now, 
it can be limited by your DASD configuration.


There is also a limit for PDSE member size. For PDSE v.1 it is 15 728 
639 records (approx. 1.2GB for FB 80). However since z/OS 2.1 there is 
v.2 of PDSE with limit for member at 2 146 435 071 records (approx. 171 
GB for FB 80).


There is also a limit for number of members, it's 522 236.

For record purposes, limits of regular PDS are: single volume, 64k TRK 
per (single) volume). Member is limited only by the size of PDS, number 
of members are limited by directory size. Huge directory provides really 
poor performance.


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Re: Question on an HMC's ethernet adapter

2017-02-20 Thread Parwez Hamid
Mike,


I hope the H/W error message about the adapter failure is correct. If not and 
not  knowing what your actual physical LAN connectivity is, it might be 
difficult to diagnose the problem remotely.


If you have the following IBM manual:


System z9 Enterprise Class. Installation Manual for Physical Planning
GC28-6844-06,

it gives a a number recommendations to customers as to how to configure the HMC 
LAN i.e. direct connections (HMC to Support Element (SE)), with/without using 
the corporate LAN,  combination of Ethernet and Token Ring or just Ethernet 
etc. You will find this info in Chapter 6. If you don't have this manual, you 
can download it from IBM's ResourceLink website. Its in the Library section. 
Hope this will help you fix the problem.


Regards
Parwez

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