Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Timothy Sipples]

Shmuel Metz wrote:
>Now if they could just bring z/OS support for Kotlin, Lua,
>Perl, Raku, Ruby and Rust up to date ...
>Yes, bringing the port up to date includes first porting it ;-)

Let's take these in order

1. As far as I know, as long as you use the Kotlin compiler to target a 
Java Runtime Environment (JRE) -- the typical/usual pattern -- your 
program will (also) run on z/OS. The basic command line compiler syntax is 
as follows, assuming Kotlin source code in the file hello.kt:

kotlinc hello.kt -include-runtime -d hello.jar
java -jar hello.jar

There's also a potential future path that'll support Kotlin's LLVM target 
(since z/OS now supports LLVM), but that's speculative.

2. There's a z/OS build of Lua available here:

http://lua4z.com

This is a circa 2014 build of Lua. Fundi Software created, maintains, and 
supports this distribution, so if you'd like something newer then feel 
free to inquire.

3. Rocket Software offers Perl for z/OS here (currently 5.24.0, which was 
released on May 8, 2016):

https://www.rocketsoftware.com/zos-open-source

4. For Raku, go grab the Rakudo distribution and target a JVM 
(--target=jar). Or use Rakudo.js to target Node.js (JavaScript) since 
Node.js is available for z/OS:

https://www.ibm.com/products/sdk-nodejs-compiler-zos

To my knowledge there's no difficulty with either path.

5. JRuby is available:

https://www.jruby.org

The best implementation of Ruby for z/OS is probably currently the Docker 
container image that runs in the z/OS Container Extensions:

https://hub.docker.com/_/ruby

6. Rust will need LLVM, now available on z/OS. However, you can already 
compile and run Rust code via the z/OS Container Extensions.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[scott Ford]

Peter my vote also...

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 11:39 PM Farley, Peter x23353 <
peter.far...@broadridge.com> wrote:

> For relatively recent fare, I agree 100% - "Person of Interest" leads the
> pack.  My favorite oldie -- "Let's play Global Thermonuclear War . . . "
> (War Games), right after Dr. Strangelove of course, simply because it was
> so twisted.
>
> Mutual Assured Destruction indeed.  Is SkyNet far away?
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bob Bridges
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:21 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming
> language of 2020
>
> I've always loved "Colossus: The Forbin Project".  Not many people have
> seen it, as far as I can tell.
>
> The only problem I have with that movie - well, the main problem - is that
> no programmer in the world would make such a system and then throw away the
> Stop button.  No engineer would do that with a machine he built, either.
> Too many things can go wrong.
>
> But a fun movie, if you can ignore that.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* The only thing UFO aliens deserve is to be ignored...and when we
> finally develop the right missiles, to have their smug, silvery little
> butts shot down.  Not a single reported UFO sighting -- if true! --
> describes the behavior of decent, polite, honorable visitors to our world.
> -David Brin in a 1998 on-line interview */
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of scott Ford
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:38
>
> Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’,
>
> Colossus and American computer and Guardian a Russian computer take over
> saying ‘ Colossus and Guardian we are one’, or better yet My favorite show,
> ‘Person of Interest’.
> --
>
> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized
> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
> e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
>
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
-- 
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Farley, Peter x23353]

For relatively recent fare, I agree 100% - "Person of Interest" leads the pack. 
 My favorite oldie -- "Let's play Global Thermonuclear War . . . " (War Games), 
right after Dr. Strangelove of course, simply because it was so twisted.

Mutual Assured Destruction indeed.  Is SkyNet far away?

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Bob 
Bridges
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

I've always loved "Colossus: The Forbin Project".  Not many people have seen 
it, as far as I can tell.

The only problem I have with that movie - well, the main problem - is that no 
programmer in the world would make such a system and then throw away the Stop 
button.  No engineer would do that with a machine he built, either.  Too many 
things can go wrong.

But a fun movie, if you can ignore that.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* The only thing UFO aliens deserve is to be ignored...and when we finally 
develop the right missiles, to have their smug, silvery little butts shot down. 
 Not a single reported UFO sighting -- if true! -- describes the behavior of 
decent, polite, honorable visitors to our world.  -David Brin in a 1998 on-line 
interview */


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of scott Ford
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:38

Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’,

Colossus and American computer and Guardian a Russian computer take over saying 
‘ Colossus and Guardian we are one’, or better yet My favorite show, ‘Person of 
Interest’.
--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee 
and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader 
of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this 
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any 
attachments from your system.


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Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!

[zMan]

Without disagreeing about the stupidity of making stuff just vanish (hint:
if they wanted to move it, they didn't need to delete the old content, and
anyone vaguely conscious would have provided links to the new locations,or
AT LEAST a static page saying "Stuff moved, go here"), anything that gets
content off the disaster that is the IBM web and onto something maintained
by competent admins--scratch that, maintained AT ALL--is probably actually
a good thing in the long run.

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Bob Bridges]

I've always loved "Colossus: The Forbin Project".  Not many people have seen 
it, as far as I can tell.

The only problem I have with that movie - well, the main problem - is that no 
programmer in the world would make such a system and then throw away the Stop 
button.  No engineer would do that with a machine he built, either.  Too many 
things can go wrong.

But a fun movie, if you can ignore that.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* The only thing UFO aliens deserve is to be ignored...and when we finally 
develop the right missiles, to have their smug, silvery little butts shot down. 
 Not a single reported UFO sighting -- if true! -- describes the behavior of 
decent, polite, honorable visitors to our world.  -David Brin in a 1998 on-line 
interview */


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of scott Ford
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:38

Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’,

Colossus and American computer and Guardian a Russian computer take over
saying ‘ Colossus and Guardian we are one’, or better yet My favorite show,
‘Person of Interest’.

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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!

[Lionel B Dyck]

There is but it requires access to a zLinux LPAR to do the build from what I 
read when I found it.

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
scott Ford
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 2:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!

Alan,

Isn’t there also a z/OS repo on Github ?


Scott

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 4:05 PM Alan Young  wrote:

> It seems like IBM has decided on using github for the latest iteration.
>
> https://github.com/IBM
>
> https://github.com/cicsdev
>
> https://cicsdev.github.io/
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: scott Ford 
> >Sent: May 8, 2020 9:59 AM
> >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!
> >
> >Cheryl,
> >
> >Some needs a build large indexable repository for tutorials, howto, 
> >code etc.
> >I have always felt since no one know all the technical answers or 
> >aspects
> ,
> >then a repository would help greatly.
> >
> >Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 9:14 AM Lance D. Jackson < 
> >ljack...@pandrueassociates.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you Cheryl.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf
> >> Of Cheryl Watson Walker
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 22:02
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We'll I'm a little embarrassed. I was just told offline about a 
> >> link
> that
> >> Lionel Dyck posted here last October that described the coming of 
> >> the calamity that just occurred - 
> >> https://developer.ibm.com/dw-connections-sunset-faq/. (As a side 
> >> note – the creators of that FAQ weren’t even kind enough to create 
> >> hot links
> for
> >> all of the other portals. Web pages and hot links aren’t all that
> difficult
> >> people!) The FAQ said that owners of content on DeveloperWorks 
> >> could
> move
> >> their content to other locations by the end of March. This is 
> >> assuming
> that
> >> they were still employed by IBM and had the time to move the 
> >> content. Of course, IBM could not provide them with the original content.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We had posted almost 100 links in our Tuning Letter to useful 
> >> material
> on
> >> DeveloperWorks and now none of them work. It will take time, but I 
> >> hope
> to
> >> go through all of our links and reach out to the authors to find 
> >> where
> they
> >> are now posting items.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So I went to the new website - https://www.ibm.com/community/, 
> >> signed
> up,
> >> and started looking at it. With the optional portals listed in the 
> >> FAQ
> and
> >> this new community website, it just seems like IBM wants to remove 
> >> as
> much
> >> technical information as possible and replace it with marketing. If
> anyone
> >> knows how to search the new community website, please let me know. 
> >> If
> I’m
> >> not ready to buy a product, the community is not doing anything for me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S. – Aled – thanks for your post. I have always had the highest
> respect
> >> for Timothy and Mark, and I really appreciate how much they support 
> >> the customers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Still a little bitter about the deletions…
> >>
> >> Cheryl
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Cheryl Watson 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:39 PM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Cc: Cheryl Watson 
> >> Subject: IBM Developerworks is gone!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Remember when IBM went through and deleted from their websites what 
> >> they considered "old" manuals and documentation? Well, they just 
> >> did it
> again!
> >> They've removed all the DeveloperWorks articles that have provided 
> >> such excellent information since its creation. And these aren't 
> >> just OLD articles. Even a link from three months ago is gone. All 
> >> references to DeveloperWorks are now directed to a nothing site. 
> >> The DeveloperWorks website contained amazing articles from some of 
> >> the top developers in
> their
> >> fields, many of whom are no longer still working at IBM. We 
> >> understand
> that
> >> IBM "furloughed" them, but they don't have to furlough their ideas.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm pleading with all of you who work for a large IBM customer to 
> >> ask
> your
> >> management to tell IBM to stop this idiotic practice. There is NO
> reason to
> >> delete valuable information.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If this is due to marketing wanting a new image, then they have no 
> >> idea what image they're creating.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please do this for all of us!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> All my best,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheryl Watson
> >>
> >> Watson & Walker, Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 

Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!

[scott Ford]

Alan,

Isn’t there also a z/OS repo on Github ?


Scott

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 4:05 PM Alan Young  wrote:

> It seems like IBM has decided on using github for the latest iteration.
>
> https://github.com/IBM
>
> https://github.com/cicsdev
>
> https://cicsdev.github.io/
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: scott Ford 
> >Sent: May 8, 2020 9:59 AM
> >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!
> >
> >Cheryl,
> >
> >Some needs a build large indexable repository for tutorials, howto, code
> >etc.
> >I have always felt since no one know all the technical answers or aspects
> ,
> >then a repository would help greatly.
> >
> >Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 9:14 AM Lance D. Jackson <
> >ljack...@pandrueassociates.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you Cheryl.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf
> >> Of Cheryl Watson Walker
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 22:02
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: IBM Developerworks is gone!
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We'll I'm a little embarrassed. I was just told offline about a link
> that
> >> Lionel Dyck posted here last October that described the coming of the
> >> calamity that just occurred -
> >> https://developer.ibm.com/dw-connections-sunset-faq/. (As a side note –
> >> the creators of that FAQ weren’t even kind enough to create hot links
> for
> >> all of the other portals. Web pages and hot links aren’t all that
> difficult
> >> people!) The FAQ said that owners of content on DeveloperWorks could
> move
> >> their content to other locations by the end of March. This is assuming
> that
> >> they were still employed by IBM and had the time to move the content. Of
> >> course, IBM could not provide them with the original content.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We had posted almost 100 links in our Tuning Letter to useful material
> on
> >> DeveloperWorks and now none of them work. It will take time, but I hope
> to
> >> go through all of our links and reach out to the authors to find where
> they
> >> are now posting items.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So I went to the new website - https://www.ibm.com/community/, signed
> up,
> >> and started looking at it. With the optional portals listed in the FAQ
> and
> >> this new community website, it just seems like IBM wants to remove as
> much
> >> technical information as possible and replace it with marketing. If
> anyone
> >> knows how to search the new community website, please let me know. If
> I’m
> >> not ready to buy a product, the community is not doing anything for me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S. – Aled – thanks for your post. I have always had the highest
> respect
> >> for Timothy and Mark, and I really appreciate how much they support the
> >> customers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Still a little bitter about the deletions…
> >>
> >> Cheryl
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Cheryl Watson 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:39 PM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Cc: Cheryl Watson 
> >> Subject: IBM Developerworks is gone!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Remember when IBM went through and deleted from their websites what they
> >> considered "old" manuals and documentation? Well, they just did it
> again!
> >> They've removed all the DeveloperWorks articles that have provided such
> >> excellent information since its creation. And these aren't just OLD
> >> articles. Even a link from three months ago is gone. All references to
> >> DeveloperWorks are now directed to a nothing site. The DeveloperWorks
> >> website contained amazing articles from some of the top developers in
> their
> >> fields, many of whom are no longer still working at IBM. We understand
> that
> >> IBM "furloughed" them, but they don't have to furlough their ideas.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm pleading with all of you who work for a large IBM customer to ask
> your
> >> management to tell IBM to stop this idiotic practice. There is NO
> reason to
> >> delete valuable information.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If this is due to marketing wanting a new image, then they have no idea
> >> what image they're creating.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please do this for all of us!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> All my best,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheryl Watson
> >>
> >> Watson & Walker, Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email
> >> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>
> >> --
> >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>
> >--
> >Scott Ford
> >IDMWORKS
> >z/OS Development
> >
> >--
> >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> 

Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[scott Ford]

Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’,

Colossus and American computer and Guardian a Russian computer take over
saying ‘ Colossus and Guardian we are one’, or better yet My favorite show,
‘Person of Interest’.


Scott

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 11:18 AM Thomas Kern <
0041d919e708-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> My view is:
> "You can write Fortran in any language, badly."
>
> /Tom Kern
>
> On 05/10/2020 10:13, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> > "You can write Fortran in any language."
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
-- 
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Thomas Kern]

My view is:
"You can write Fortran in any language, badly."

/Tom Kern

On 05/10/2020 10:13, Seymour J Metz wrote:

"You can write Fortran in any language."


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Seymour J Metz]

"You can write Fortran in any language."


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Jack J. Woehr [j...@well.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

On 5/9/20 10:13 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> PHP is still the easiest way to toss up an interactive website.
> Toss one up - perhaps.
>
>> If that's not your beat,
> My beat is to write readable code that the guy who comes after me can 
> maintain, not to write throw-away code.

I'm all in favor of nicely structured code others can maintain.

PHP can be like that, if written correctly.

If you want unmaintainable spaghetti, though, there's nothing quite like
JavaScript :)


--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1SH6ixsrtta_iiTyGoKZ5lx0R_Kbbw1bt0TrHAs1kaQxOUjk2HiMZjlHbYgbqOv7-SUo5CaEdDaaJ_E-yuZmr4QWfF9q5V7nk80JHHHYl4o7qqzENCeSKOO0xVm1sZ53RKv0sBggBjOSXmA-M0Jsd9gXkfxzgPd0KL0JrV0rDqxhCOvZzBmpJgOAdiCfGIgMpoho_UnH9WwNPGQJLmvbVI4xUP-kxGFIhuXaqSEmVVFgrcj53R9aDknDmUCUXclICMqbCfDCM4_-GMQW2OIJ-yqdSKDe8C8zbwqzlgYCzNULMh-tU318i-BLhsr-tEbOlnRiP-inuqUAdyTWwLwQ7OXXrQaupvV88htr-osU4v1bx7WtQlMNrjerwgbqyEDQodqVZbxmF1mu4wQDYMcYsn_roR1dJ3I25amkEEBbCFeLMzdH_4J46d4RBXjlW1bm3/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.well.com%2F%7Ejax
 # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Zs4GRxG-C3fQ22QHxJnzbP6l_NE0Aso6mmCgU9jC2yrmimCPhbr0lehBTkwOWLwkPpZkKUO8cHHYH1kCHGYsX2ztv49-uRtLKBqRlejJsoaE1HtsrYUV0_2hLyHcA-yjOJM-sqbUCC_pkixIfywTj8wyRk6xCAmQBANqJ_iSgK0ORTMEgQsSKXo-z8fPc8PG6Tg4SYNwDWn4bYG13vHL0ZMcojUURfivhAqricaxIYE3gcMluk6kUTvSi1wq0kBAx0Y5jZHPisFdXlkVpToD1hjqCF3pgYjvK-QSCjBbvLiubncgLG-WxC_fISq2Wvs87mwZSpqZkHuSziGT8c8-0NVR1pR3BWdDHud-ctGh9evSoBFc9d2LbjAUX1FaM2csY5GG9zPvefIii-bTM2D2gjTZvJLluzuHJa0DMQ3eQNH8JQAGoco15OGXzETuhpVV/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.softwoehr.com
 # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Seymour J Metz]

I like PL/I, but even had it taken over the marketplace form Algol 60, COBOL 
and Fortran, there would still have been a need for domain specific languages. 
OTOH, maybe they would have had cleaner syntax.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
PINION, RICHARD W. [rpin...@firsthorizon.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

PL/I, the language to replace all other languages.  At least that's what IBM 
said.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Brennan
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.]

Nice web site and pottery!

PHP has long been my favorite even for larger web applications, and also for 
scripting under Windows.  I was just about to try to learn something new though 
- web page scraping in whatever language they use for Chrome plug-ins.  Now I 
guess I'll have to look at this "Go" thing too.  When will it all settle down 
to just one programming language??  Ha - I know, never.

On 5/9/2020 6:49 PM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:
> On 5/9/20 7:12 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> Python certainly has a lot of eyeballs, although I'm still seeing
>> calls for PHP,
>
> PHP is a fun language for coding small, interactive websites like the
> one I coded "by hand" for my wife's pottery 
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/13d2X-eaZ9Lxm67qBc_jHTN6PgblpFXYQwwI0OU_WMKjkL5VmUwJuQj3IUkVNVMdEPM8mC4ciG-xwCzeqGse487Dp0CXclIQwqoQOjNLc2NtDXsYBxRl_1CsOe7rH4ZVOWvPrCzIiltXRvBETS_RC2OCtD5DZo4FlWq64iWgs1xmICulVl_-TtJXVu-BUO8P29kWGkkZ8WkNsuNMinrslrSUkRxkdkJ_tHXqoXngzhUv-wec6zDxltT--tC_r2AwwiPN0vPwUZNLjZS5DQYCl1ZSF6hQWy4qfFurIgFOmCRm_s9rm6FsVU8klzjcksG1KdRnT_diNfCcu7tn6T0W5ATb8_21WUhF5y1GKYv7ijSF2djHWEnYsOr011kxoFhNNDufmTE4hOazxjHvvY4HNSGwLl26b8YNKA54Pb-mPNXZToP_nEYKilClxGTa2ulPU/https%3A%2F%2Fherwheel.com
>
> Python is a masterfully designed, mature language, easy to learn, with
> huge community module support including scientific programming.
>

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Seymour J Metz]

ObDatamation


 Then he turned with a snarl,
 And he said with a taunt,
 "It's just what I asked for,
 But not what I want!"


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tom 
Brennan [t...@tombrennansoftware.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

Thanks, now my head is going to explode :)

Maybe one day it'll be like Star Trek where we get to tell the computer
to create the program for us, like a designer would describe general
specs to a programmer today, then go through an evaluation and
corrections without ever seeing any actual code.

Now I'm reminded of an episode ending that always bothers me, TNG Hollow
Pursuits:

"Computer.  End programming.  Erase all programs filed under Reginald
Barclay."



"Except program nine"

Hey!  It's too late.  You already deleted ALL the programs.

On 5/9/2020 9:47 PM, David Crayford wrote:
> On 2020-05-10 11:33 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:
>> When will it all settle down to just one programming language?? Ha - I
>> know, never.
>
> Never! The new kid on the dynamic language block is Julia
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/17DMNzgpSIfLQHbMjH3uRRQ5nAKfJNBLRwOuXAAEQgE7ob2mnKwylz4zyfp_c4i18PdAGZwX672iC_D2qOs3NUrvBmrMCYcjn1uiMRdAK5j1vsrk4YJNlUK3PZaqO-5FXio_5Gd6EhPuobXZKliSYJX0BekiPOPWMM8rHaiKZG8drurSWR_zEUDjHAW7uZ4vAlKU8V0J507bslkNOCMleYxIEvsV5wRro1GOlR9GEZ4OjeJPmBS7LtPPU74foo8j9YoM8nzeAtWD0oFdd8zo_veMoVEah9K7Fr3LOdhRhmWLEEGJesrUJ16_VWwYeWeygeYpWwzKcJg2AfpzMjRMVY35HoLnQ-CgaZbihUfokxbwEXhRbyYoDmt7FhvWw19chyjNn0-TbJhsofIHynRNOU_ysjEtq1ZDq6XuO92k_VbEPt-_sY0a7fey-ic3jaojGE1n52nafm-giyZtyJ3QUmw/https%3A%2F%2Fjulialang.org%2F.
>
> It's a very well designed language that feels a lot like Lua. Because of
> the great design it's possible to write a tracing JIT that produces code
> that runs as fast as C. Parallelism is baked in too. It's becoming very
> popular in the data science community and is likely to eat into Python
> pretty quickly.
>
> The reason new languages keep appearing is because the ones we have now
> are not that great.
>
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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Seymour J Metz]

"I'm sorry Richard, I can't do that."


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
PINION, RICHARD W. [rpin...@firsthorizon.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

What the world really needs is a HAL9000.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Brennan
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.]

Thanks, now my head is going to explode :)

Maybe one day it'll be like Star Trek where we get to tell the computer to 
create the program for us, like a designer would describe general specs to a 
programmer today, then go through an evaluation and corrections without ever 
seeing any actual code.

Now I'm reminded of an episode ending that always bothers me, TNG Hollow
Pursuits:

"Computer.  End programming.  Erase all programs filed under Reginald Barclay."



"Except program nine"

Hey!  It's too late.  You already deleted ALL the programs.

On 5/9/2020 9:47 PM, David Crayford wrote:
> On 2020-05-10 11:33 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:
>> When will it all settle down to just one programming language?? Ha -
>> I know, never.
>
> Never! The new kid on the dynamic language block is Julia
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UUUpmgc5GVhyWUlEGQCz8OyH52cYPUvgF6A5KGRIUuXNH9q1WoW53mX9c1y1scY7hndmx0t7tN4BRFB0T0hpFaXItehEMR_mxhVJIF_SOOPpidzqOUFk47A-kj8yhfBLCqFNOGCHFXM5TuJTuUACowO2J9iH7B3ouDABi6ftDIlwnhDDSnajp0SafYHC-RZLaf9O8ToHGhG0xj6yXVnfs3VBlMXblzB9UIIO3NG17br-MlK8akobafZWw_NcWLBklCSF0rzRgn7GL_JfVtboj68on43M9iBJkofI1uZXl88OTv8D01Kxv6uYtq6m8OsX30WhwT0hSXO3roRPY3dJVMAXej2twEidn-sR0K8feE-nYChAy3roz4k19qt2P2ttroeEzR0CGYAA2P_HuQ6GagJE_9BwlDu_JoClOaMCZhZD5LgkYaY1J71QlIm59MbhJMI1vyrhrankLTmeFQGyCw/https%3A%2F%2Fjulialang.org%2F.
>
> It's a very well designed language that feels a lot like Lua. Because
> of the great design it's possible to write a tracing JIT that produces
> code that runs as fast as C. Parallelism is baked in too. It's
> becoming very popular in the data science community and is likely to
> eat into Python pretty quickly.
>
> The reason new languages keep appearing is because the ones we have
> now are not that great.
>
> --
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> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[David Crayford]

On 2020-05-10 3:36 PM, Tom Brennan wrote:

Uh oh...

He also has https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-javascript-suck/


Yep, JavaScript sucks! But it doesn't suck as much as PHP and since ES6 
much of that nastiness has been fixed. And there's also TypeScript which 
is what we use.



and even https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-this-blog-suck/

I read his PHP page to the point where he says the PHP online doc 
sucks.  I have to disagree - I think it's one of the best methods I've 
ever seen of handling programming language documentation.


Manual is fine. For a more objective critique checkout out 
http://phpsadness.com/. What's good with this site is that you can see 
the PHP version where problems have been fixed.





On 5/9/2020 11:58 PM, David Crayford wrote:
Anyway, don't take my word for it! This guy created a website just to 
rant about why PHP sucks https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-php-suck/


On 2020-05-10 12:45 PM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

On 5/9/20 10:13 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

PHP is still the easiest way to toss up an interactive website.

Toss one up - perhaps.


If that's not your beat,
My beat is to write readable code that the guy who comes after me 
can maintain, not to write throw-away code.


I'm all in favor of nicely structured code others can maintain.

PHP can be like that, if written correctly.

If you want unmaintainable spaghetti, though, there's nothing quite 
like JavaScript :)





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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Tom Brennan]

Uh oh...

He also has https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-javascript-suck/
and even https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-this-blog-suck/

I read his PHP page to the point where he says the PHP online doc sucks. 
 I have to disagree - I think it's one of the best methods I've ever 
seen of handling programming language documentation.


On 5/9/2020 11:58 PM, David Crayford wrote:
Anyway, don't take my word for it! This guy created a website just to 
rant about why PHP sucks https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-php-suck/


On 2020-05-10 12:45 PM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

On 5/9/20 10:13 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

PHP is still the easiest way to toss up an interactive website.

Toss one up - perhaps.


If that's not your beat,
My beat is to write readable code that the guy who comes after me can 
maintain, not to write throw-away code.


I'm all in favor of nicely structured code others can maintain.

PHP can be like that, if written correctly.

If you want unmaintainable spaghetti, though, there's nothing quite 
like JavaScript :)





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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Wayne Bickerdike]

Was excited in 1981 when "The Last One" was announced. It meant we wouldn't
ever need another programming language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_One_(software)

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:28 PM PINION, RICHARD W. 
wrote:

> What the world really needs is a HAL9000.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Tom Brennan
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:25 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming
> language of 2020
>
> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening
> attachments.]
>
> Thanks, now my head is going to explode :)
>
> Maybe one day it'll be like Star Trek where we get to tell the computer to
> create the program for us, like a designer would describe general specs to
> a programmer today, then go through an evaluation and corrections without
> ever seeing any actual code.
>
> Now I'm reminded of an episode ending that always bothers me, TNG Hollow
> Pursuits:
>
> "Computer.  End programming.  Erase all programs filed under Reginald
> Barclay."
>
> 
>
> "Except program nine"
>
> Hey!  It's too late.  You already deleted ALL the programs.
>
> On 5/9/2020 9:47 PM, David Crayford wrote:
> > On 2020-05-10 11:33 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:
> >> When will it all settle down to just one programming language?? Ha -
> >> I know, never.
> >
> > Never! The new kid on the dynamic language block is Julia
> > https://julialang.org/.
> >
> > It's a very well designed language that feels a lot like Lua. Because
> > of the great design it's possible to write a tracing JIT that produces
> > code that runs as fast as C. Parallelism is baked in too. It's
> > becoming very popular in the data science community and is likely to
> > eat into Python pretty quickly.
> >
> > The reason new languages keep appearing is because the ones we have
> > now are not that great.
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
>
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-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[PINION, RICHARD W.]

What the world really needs is a HAL9000.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Brennan
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming 
language of 2020

[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.]

Thanks, now my head is going to explode :)

Maybe one day it'll be like Star Trek where we get to tell the computer to 
create the program for us, like a designer would describe general specs to a 
programmer today, then go through an evaluation and corrections without ever 
seeing any actual code.

Now I'm reminded of an episode ending that always bothers me, TNG Hollow
Pursuits:

"Computer.  End programming.  Erase all programs filed under Reginald Barclay."



"Except program nine"

Hey!  It's too late.  You already deleted ALL the programs.

On 5/9/2020 9:47 PM, David Crayford wrote:
> On 2020-05-10 11:33 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:
>> When will it all settle down to just one programming language?? Ha - 
>> I know, never.
>
> Never! The new kid on the dynamic language block is Julia 
> https://julialang.org/.
>
> It's a very well designed language that feels a lot like Lua. Because 
> of the great design it's possible to write a tracing JIT that produces 
> code that runs as fast as C. Parallelism is baked in too. It's 
> becoming very popular in the data science community and is likely to 
> eat into Python pretty quickly.
>
> The reason new languages keep appearing is because the ones we have 
> now are not that great.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>

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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Tom Brennan]

Thanks, now my head is going to explode :)

Maybe one day it'll be like Star Trek where we get to tell the computer 
to create the program for us, like a designer would describe general 
specs to a programmer today, then go through an evaluation and 
corrections without ever seeing any actual code.


Now I'm reminded of an episode ending that always bothers me, TNG Hollow 
Pursuits:


"Computer.  End programming.  Erase all programs filed under Reginald 
Barclay."




"Except program nine"

Hey!  It's too late.  You already deleted ALL the programs.

On 5/9/2020 9:47 PM, David Crayford wrote:

On 2020-05-10 11:33 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:
When will it all settle down to just one programming language?? Ha - I 
know, never. 


Never! The new kid on the dynamic language block is Julia 
https://julialang.org/.


It's a very well designed language that feels a lot like Lua. Because of 
the great design it's possible to write a tracing JIT that produces code
that runs as fast as C. Parallelism is baked in too. It's becoming very 
popular in the data science community and is likely to eat into Python

pretty quickly.

The reason new languages keep appearing is because the ones we have now 
are not that great.


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Next GSE UK Security Meeting - 11th June 2020 via Webex

[Mark Wilson]

Greetings,



We are pleased to confirm that the next meeting of the GSE UK Security Working 
Group, will take place on Thursday 11th June 2020 (09:00 – 17:15 BST) via Webex.



The agenda and registration is available here > 
https://www.gse.org.uk/events/gse-uk-security-working-group-meeting/  - 
(registration is required to receive the webex link and attendee password).



Highlights from the agenda include:

  *   IoT & BYOD – The new security risks
  *   ACF2 - A horse of a different colour
  *   The journey of two Mainframe Security Trainees
  *   Mainframe Hacker Society – Defeating IBM’s Attempt To Detect Privilege 
Escalation
  *   Mainframes and the Moon
  *   The importance of the z/OS Mainframe System Security Plan (SSP)
  *   What keyring? What certificates? All I know is TLS doesn't work!

The agenda is a mixture of technical and non-technical content to cater for a 
variety of professionals. We also offer the opportunity to earn CPE points for 
attending the meeting, for those of you who are required to maintain 
professional certifications.



Please book your space asap if you wish to attend, as we have a limited number 
of spaces available!



Stay safe and well.



Regards



Mark Wilson and Jamie Pease


Jamie Pease CISA, CISM, CISSP, MBCS CITP

Chairman of the GSE UK Security Working Group

Website: https://www.gse.org.uk/working-group/enterprise-security/
Email: jamie.pe...@gse.org.uk
Mobile: +44(0)7961 971938



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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[David Crayford]

Anyway, don't take my word for it! This guy created a website just to 
rant about why PHP sucks https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-php-suck/


On 2020-05-10 12:45 PM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

On 5/9/20 10:13 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

PHP is still the easiest way to toss up an interactive website.

Toss one up - perhaps.


If that's not your beat,
My beat is to write readable code that the guy who comes after me can 
maintain, not to write throw-away code.


I'm all in favor of nicely structured code others can maintain.

PHP can be like that, if written correctly.

If you want unmaintainable spaghetti, though, there's nothing quite 
like JavaScript :)





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Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[David Crayford]

On 2020-05-10 12:44 PM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

I appreciate that.

If you're a js programmer, you're a js programmer.

I was talking about data center programmers who have to do anything 
and everything at the drop of a hat.


PHP is for them. 


It's certainly not in our data center. I had to learn PHP when I was 
working with Wordpress. The more I learned about it the more I detested it.

That was in the good old days of LAMP stacks.

I honestly can't think of anything I could do in PHP which isn't easier 
to do in JavaScript. Even creating HTML which is PHP's forte is easier 
in JS using a library like React.


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