Re: SuperWylbur Users
Tony Harminc wrote: >What is (and will be) the licensing status of SuperWylbur? Is there >potential to turn this into a community maintained project? There are >surely at least hobbyists out there who would love to play with it. That's a good idea. The only caveat I can think of is that sometimes there's "encumbered" code in a particular product. However, that seems unlikely in this case (see below), and even if that were the case it's still possible to release only the unencumbered code. John Giltner wrote: >It is still distributed with full source code. That's promising for these purposes. It means there's no first party distribution effort required. Permission alone to one or more second parties would be sufficient. - - - - - - - - - - Timothy Sipples I.T. Architect Executive Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions IBM Z & LinuxONE - - - - - - - - - - E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: >I forgot something obvious for me: NEVER USE TAPES FOR APPLICATION >DATA. No jobs should write or read tapes. >Nothing except backup and restore and (optionally) ML2. Managed by >HSM or FDR. Some excepions for archive copies are worth to consider. I take your point, but "NEVER" is too strong. And you're acknowledging there might be some exceptions, so let's dig into them a bit. One notable exception that I'm increasingly encountering is in the digital asset industry. There are occasions when they'd like to have certain digital assets in an offline state, for example in technically and operationally assured systems, encrypted on WORM tape cartridges physically removed from tape libraries. In some cases that sort of approach is what the asset owners and their insurers require. Another potential exception involves certain content management systems, although it depends on how they're designed. As another example, IBM SAFR runs really don't mind source data from tape and/or virtual tape. As long as the data streams fast enough for whatever you're trying to do with SAFR, that's perfectly fine. I suppose you could drive even these edge cases through DFSMShsm handling (and manual tape loading procedures in the first example), but then you'd need above average cooperation with application developers and owners. The "my application knows best" philosophy is powerful, for better or worse. You just try to do the best you can, and if there's an exceptional edge case and consensus agreement that it ought to be handled differently (even if you disagree), OK, so it goes. - - - - - - - - - - Timothy Sipples I.T. Architect Executive Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions IBM Z & LinuxONE - - - - - - - - - - E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
Thank you for the detailed response Glenn, IBM-MAIN is truly amazing. > Migrate/Archive > The three purposes of HSM migration are to 1) compress the data so that the > footprint is smaller, 2) move it to a lower cost media so that the TCO is > lower and 3) move the data to an offline media that doesn't consume online > UCBs. When considering bringing all of your data back online, you need to > consider the impact of all three. 1) Assuming 3:1 compaction, you'll need 3x > the online storage. With zEDC, that will vary on both what you can get on the > primary storage and the ML2 storage. 3) For larger shops, the number on > online UCBs is a factor. It's not a factor for smaller shops. - 1) Compression - wouldn't it be enough to rely on z15 on-chip compression + the compression/dedupe done by the storage array itself? Sure, it may not be 3:1.. but worth evaluating? If the array itself is doing C+D, then "rehydrating" the data isn't a problem I believe? 2) It's not just the storage cost though right.. (cost of a bunch of disk, S) vs (cost of tape emulation, physical carts, bandwidth, S, HSM's direct & indirect costs) 3) Ok, the UCB thing can be problematic for big shops, agreed. There's only so much you can do with 3390-54 (are bigger volumes coming anytime soon?). > Another thing to consider with an all disk environment is your 'relief > valve'. It's simple to migrate data to tape as a means of ensuring that you > always have enough space on your primary storage for growth. If you only have > primary storage, what is your exception handling case when you have > unexpected growth and no migration tiers to which to move your inactive data? > How quickly can you bring more primary storage online? Sorry, I know it sounds silly when I keep saying 'assume x/y/z is already catered to', but ... assuming primary storage provisioning is no longer a problem (apart from the UCBs mentioned above). > Another option is DS8000 transparent cloud tiering. This enables you to > migrate inactive data to cloud object storage, with minimal cpu since the > DS8K is doing the data movement. If not a primary means of migrating data, it > is a very good option for a 'relief valve'. Hmm... the two whole approaches (all-primary vs standard procedure) need to costed out and compared to be impartial to either case. > Backup > Regardless of the replication technique that you are using > (synchronous/asynchronous), you need point-in-time copies of your data for > logical corruption protection. If a data set is accidentally or maliciously > deleted, replication quickly deletes it from all copies. Also, if data > becomes logically corrupted, it is instantly corrupted in all copies. So, you > have to have a point-in-time backup technique for all of your data. You need > as many copies as you want recovery points. One copy doesn't give you much > security. Keeping n copies on disk can get pricey and consume alot of > storage. Also, you need to replicate the n PiT copies to all of your sites so > that you can do a logical recovery after a physical fail over. This makes the > cost add up even more quickly. TCT is another good option for this. You can > keep 1 or 2 copies on disk and then have HSM migrate/expire the older backup > copies to cloud object storage which is then available at all of your > recovery sites. If we consider that the storage array has *proper* support for multi-site, snapshots/PiTs, etc. ... again not problematic. Fully understand I may be dreaming about such a primary storage, it's good to know the technical constraints against it. - KB ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, July 6, 2020 10:54 PM, Glenn Wilcock wrote: > A few thoughts: > > Migrate/Archive > The three purposes of HSM migration are to 1) compress the data so that the > footprint is smaller, 2) move it to a lower cost media so that the TCO is > lower and 3) move the data to an offline media that doesn't consume online > UCBs. When considering bringing all of your data back online, you need to > consider the impact of all three. 1) Assuming 3:1 compaction, you'll need 3x > the online storage. With zEDC, that will vary on both what you can get on the > primary storage and the ML2 storage. 3) For larger shops, the number on > online UCBs is a factor. It's not a factor for smaller shops. > > Some clients have selected to go to an all HSM ML1 environment to still get > the advantage of zEDC compression on inactive data. (You may be utilizing > zEDC for primary storage, but that is only available for nonVSAM data). These > clients utilize the lowest cost disk and utilize the value of zEDC > compression to minimize the footprint. > > Another thing to consider with an all disk environment is your 'relief > valve'. It's simple to migrate data to tape as a means of ensuring that you > always have enough space on your primary storage for growth. If you only have > primary storage, what is your
Re: Migrate z/OS DASD volumes from Mainframe to Hercules Environment
On 7/5/20 11:31 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: P.S. - At least in my mail client, your email address in the message headers is the listserv web interface, AFAIK it is not possible to email you privately at that address. Thank you for letting me know. gtaylor (at) tnetconsulting (dot) net I wonder if the alternate email address is related to my domain and mail server's configurations. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Any interest in PSD I/O for REXX?
My STOWBLDL routine at http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3/source/STOWBLDL.ASM has code to quiesce a QSAM DCB before going to a new member and reprime buffering afterward; this requires dealing with fields in the SAM-E IOB extension and the SAM-E Interrupt Control Block. I assume that I would need FAMS to do the equivalent for PDSE. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Steve Smith [sasd...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 8:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Any interest in PSD I/O for REXX? I do have access to FAMS, but I don't think you need it to support PDSEs, including member generations. What do you want from it? sas On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:02 PM Seymour J Metz wrote: > Long ago in a galaxy far away I wrote a subroutine that allows, with a > single OPEN, QSAM I/O in PL/I for multiple members. Were I to provide a > similar facility for REXX, would that be of interest? > > Note that I don't have access to FAMS, so this would be strictly PDS. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Any interest in PSD I/O for REXX?
I do have access to FAMS, but I don't think you need it to support PDSEs, including member generations. What do you want from it? sas On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:02 PM Seymour J Metz wrote: > Long ago in a galaxy far away I wrote a subroutine that allows, with a > single OPEN, QSAM I/O in PL/I for multiple members. Were I to provide a > similar facility for REXX, would that be of interest? > > Note that I don't have access to FAMS, so this would be strictly PDS. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Any interest in PSD I/O for REXX?
Long ago in a galaxy far away I wrote a subroutine that allows, with a single OPEN, QSAM I/O in PL/I for multiple members. Were I to provide a similar facility for REXX, would that be of interest? Note that I don't have access to FAMS, so this would be strictly PDS. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 16:12:59 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: >On 7/6/20 10:41 AM, Allan Staller wrote: >> Until fairly recently,, there was no native ssh client on Windoze. > >There have been native, as in not run in an emulator, SSH / SFTP / SCP >clients on Windows for almost 20 years. > > - PuTTY / PSFTP / PSCP > - Multiple GUI clients; e.g. FileZilla > - Cygwin > - I think I've heard tell of people compiling OpenSSH themselves. > If there are N of them, it's (N-1) too many. Reminiscent of the Bad Old Days, when every application had its own printer drivers and its own fonts. >Microsoft started distributing OpenSSH recently. > So, N+1? Or will the rest of the world fall in line? Maybe Windows 11. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
On 7/6/20 10:41 AM, Allan Staller wrote: Until fairly recently,, there was no native ssh client on Windoze. There have been native, as in not run in an emulator, SSH / SFTP / SCP clients on Windows for almost 20 years. - PuTTY / PSFTP / PSCP - Multiple GUI clients; e.g. FileZilla - Cygwin - I think I've heard tell of people compiling OpenSSH themselves. Microsoft started distributing OpenSSH recently. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SuperWylbur Users
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 07:13, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote: > Unfortunately SSI is going out of business and is dropping all support Dec. > 31, 2020 and is not guaranteeing that SuperWylbur will work with 2.4 or > beyond. What is (and will be) the licensing status of SuperWylbur? Is there potential to turn this into a community maintained project? There are surely at least hobbyists out there who would love to play with it. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: trying to find IBM problem determination tools studio for downloading
Thanks, I have z/Explorer on my to-do list for after I have 2.4 up and running this fall. I'll check it out. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: trying to find IBM problem determination tools studio for downloading AFAIK, that is z/explorer, which is a freebie, although I could be wrong. With z/explorer you get more than just the pd tools gui. There are 3 mainframe server tasks to configure- rse, jmon, and the IPV stc. _ Dave Jousma AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand Rapids, MI 49546 616.653.8429 | fax: 616.653.2717 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 4:08:44 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: trying to find IBM problem determination tools studio for downloading **CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL** **DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails** Hi List, As the subject says, I'm looking for a current URL where I can find the latest version (whatever version that is) of the PD Tools Studio software. Supposedly this software is a free download for anybody who has IBM debug tool or FileManager. We have FileManager and I have developers who want to try the GUI but I haven't been able to find a usable link anywhere. I tried the link in the 13.1 readme and got a 404 error. GINMF? Google is not my friend? I tried multiple searches and they all came up with dead links or marketing fluff but nothing that pointed me to any actual downloadable software. The PDTools redbook is 2 versions out of date but that doesn't help either with a "We assume you have already downloaded and installed the GUI". I couldn't find anything in the developer website except a few PTFs for the mainframe code, nothing about the GUI. Can somebody please point me to the problem determination tools studio download site? And, speaking of FileManager, does anybody know where I could get PDF versions of the 14.1 documentation? I go to the 13.1 KC and when I look at a book in it, I see a link for downloading a PDF version of the user's guide or other manual. I switch to the 14.1 version and the "PDF" link is gone. I don't want to try to download a topic or a section and then to have the beta PDF request hang on me, I want the whole manual downloaded as a PDF. Any help that can be offered would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rex The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN **CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL** **DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails** This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in
Re: trying to find IBM problem determination tools studio for downloading
AFAIK, that is z/explorer, which is a freebie, although I could be wrong. With z/explorer you get more than just the pd tools gui. There are 3 mainframe server tasks to configure- rse, jmon, and the IPV stc. _ Dave Jousma AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand Rapids, MI 49546 616.653.8429 | fax: 616.653.2717 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 4:08:44 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: trying to find IBM problem determination tools studio for downloading **CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL** **DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails** Hi List, As the subject says, I'm looking for a current URL where I can find the latest version (whatever version that is) of the PD Tools Studio software. Supposedly this software is a free download for anybody who has IBM debug tool or FileManager. We have FileManager and I have developers who want to try the GUI but I haven't been able to find a usable link anywhere. I tried the link in the 13.1 readme and got a 404 error. GINMF? Google is not my friend? I tried multiple searches and they all came up with dead links or marketing fluff but nothing that pointed me to any actual downloadable software. The PDTools redbook is 2 versions out of date but that doesn't help either with a "We assume you have already downloaded and installed the GUI". I couldn't find anything in the developer website except a few PTFs for the mainframe code, nothing about the GUI. Can somebody please point me to the problem determination tools studio download site? And, speaking of FileManager, does anybody know where I could get PDF versions of the 14.1 documentation? I go to the 13.1 KC and when I look at a book in it, I see a link for downloading a PDF version of the user's guide or other manual. I switch to the 14.1 version and the "PDF" link is gone. I don't want to try to download a topic or a section and then to have the beta PDF request hang on me, I want the whole manual downloaded as a PDF. Any help that can be offered would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rex The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN **CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL** **DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails** This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SuperWylbur Users
The z/os 1.13 to z/os 2.2 required some changes to all the JES interfacing modules. One of the problems I found is with the my different LPARS, sometimes the JES BASETRAK would be different, so depending on which LPAR it was, I had to change that. I created some automation that determined what the BASETRAK was in the LPAR SuperWylbur was coming up in, and then dynamically zap the offsite in the module One of the SuperWylbur systems mods fixed that problem so I don't deal with that anymoreI'll look again to see if that fix is still there. Back in 1980's I was always tweaking the SuperWylbur code and got pretty good at it, but through the years I stopped, so it takes a bit to get re-geared up to start looking at it again. Right now, it is just the fetch that is not working. Show JOBS gives what one would expect: ? show jobs JOB26146 TECHDELQ AW FETCH LOCAL T=22236 CODE 12 JOB26142 TECHDELD AW FETCH LOCAL T=4159 CODE 0 JOB26141 TECHDELA AW FETCH LOCAL T=11812 CODE 0 JOB26140 TECHDELD AW FETCH LOCAL T=24632 CODE 0 But the fetch is not working... ? fet 26142 clear DDNAME not found ? I believe that is all that is not working...but that is a key function our helpdesk uses. Like John, I am hoping to keep it working for a while. When I last talked to SuperWylbur systems they said there were about 4 customers still using it. I will put my Wylbur hat on later this week and do some tracing and see if I can see where it might be failing. Dennis -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of John S. Giltner, Jr. Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 5:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SuperWylbur Users It is still distributed with full source code. Typically is new JES2 releases that require modules to be re-assembles. I can't really remember the last time we had to re-assemble or make any changes because of z/OS upgrades. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
trying to find IBM problem determination tools studio for downloading
Hi List, As the subject says, I'm looking for a current URL where I can find the latest version (whatever version that is) of the PD Tools Studio software. Supposedly this software is a free download for anybody who has IBM debug tool or FileManager. We have FileManager and I have developers who want to try the GUI but I haven't been able to find a usable link anywhere. I tried the link in the 13.1 readme and got a 404 error. GINMF? Google is not my friend? I tried multiple searches and they all came up with dead links or marketing fluff but nothing that pointed me to any actual downloadable software. The PDTools redbook is 2 versions out of date but that doesn't help either with a "We assume you have already downloaded and installed the GUI". I couldn't find anything in the developer website except a few PTFs for the mainframe code, nothing about the GUI. Can somebody please point me to the problem determination tools studio download site? And, speaking of FileManager, does anybody know where I could get PDF versions of the 14.1 documentation? I go to the 13.1 KC and when I look at a book in it, I see a link for downloading a PDF version of the user's guide or other manual. I switch to the 14.1 version and the "PDF" link is gone. I don't want to try to download a topic or a section and then to have the beta PDF request hang on me, I want the whole manual downloaded as a PDF. Any help that can be offered would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rex The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Metal C and generated Assembler
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 13:59:30 -0400, Steve Smith wrote: >My guess is that something in your inserted prologue/epilogue code contains >a forward-reference that causes HLASM to suspend the location counter in >pre-assembly. > Steve - any idea of what I should be looking for. It's not clear to me how you came to this conclusion: 1) The $STATIC area does seem to be rightfully placed in the module: here is the previous CKKTESTR CSECT from the assembler listing: 0006F80 00948 1760 CKKTESTR CSECT , 00 0006F8 1761 @@CONST@AREA@@ DS 0D 00 0006F8 C595A385998584401762 DC XL16'C595A38599858440A38885E2A4827A00'00 000708 C595A385998584401763 DC XL16'C595A38599858440A38885E2A4827A40'00 000718 D9858396A58599A81764 DC XL16'D9858396A58599A8C5A789A300C9C595'00 000728 A38599858440A3881765 DC XL16'A38599858440A38885E2A4827A40D985'00 000738 A399A800C595A3851766 DC XL16'A399A800C595A38599858440D4818995'00 000748 4D5D40D48189957A1767 DC XL16'4D5D40D48189957A00C9C595A3859985'00 000758 8440D48189954D5D1768 DC XL16'8440D48189954D5D40D9858396A58599'00 000768 A8C5A789A37A00C91769 DC XL16'A8C5A789A37A00C9C595A38599858440'00 000778 D48189954D5D40D91770 DC XL14'D48189954D5D40D985A399A87A00'00 5650ZOS V2.2 z/OS XL C "SSAF.METALC.C(CKKTESTR)" Page 36 Active Usings: None Loc Object CodeAddr1 Addr2 Stmt Source Statement HLASM R6.0 2020/07/06 14.28 0007860 00948 1772 CKKTESTR CSECT , 00 000788 1773 $STATIC DS0D 00 000788 1774 DC(336)X'00' 00 0008D8008D8 007C8 1775 ORG $STATIC+64 00 And @@LAB@xL is "8" in both the working and non-working versions of the assembler code...based on the length of the DC CL4 followed by the DS 0D... Scott Fagen 21st Century Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:42 AM Allan Staller wrote: > Until fairly recently,, there was no native ssh client on Windoze. > > I'm not sure what you mean - ssh clients like PuTTY have been around many years. There are a ton of them. If you meant "OpenSSH", then it is true that the Microsoft Powershell port of OpenSSH is pretty recent. Many of us have used OpenSSH with cygwin for many years, but that isn't "native" I suppose. Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Metal C and generated Assembler
My guess is that something in your inserted prologue/epilogue code contains a forward-reference that causes HLASM to suspend the location counter in pre-assembly. The message (ASMA032E) is a prime example of the anti-pattern of issuing an error message that makes you guess which of the listed possibilities is the problem. I'm guessing it's "unresolved symbol" due to the above. sas On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 12:51 PM Scott Fagen wrote: > I have a Metal C program where I am trying to add some static data via an > __asm(“…” : DS(staticdata)) statement, but I am having some issues with the > generated assembler code. > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
A few thoughts: Migrate/Archive The three purposes of HSM migration are to 1) compress the data so that the footprint is smaller, 2) move it to a lower cost media so that the TCO is lower and 3) move the data to an offline media that doesn't consume online UCBs. When considering bringing all of your data back online, you need to consider the impact of all three. 1) Assuming 3:1 compaction, you'll need 3x the online storage. With zEDC, that will vary on both what you can get on the primary storage and the ML2 storage. 3) For larger shops, the number on online UCBs is a factor. It's not a factor for smaller shops. Some clients have selected to go to an all HSM ML1 environment to still get the advantage of zEDC compression on inactive data. (You may be utilizing zEDC for primary storage, but that is only available for nonVSAM data). These clients utilize the lowest cost disk and utilize the value of zEDC compression to minimize the footprint. Another thing to consider with an all disk environment is your 'relief valve'. It's simple to migrate data to tape as a means of ensuring that you always have enough space on your primary storage for growth. If you only have primary storage, what is your exception handling case when you have unexpected growth and no migration tiers to which to move your inactive data? How quickly can you bring more primary storage online? Another option is DS8000 transparent cloud tiering. This enables you to migrate inactive data to cloud object storage, with minimal cpu since the DS8K is doing the data movement. If not a primary means of migrating data, it is a very good option for a 'relief valve'. Backup Regardless of the replication technique that you are using (synchronous/asynchronous), you need point-in-time copies of your data for logical corruption protection. If a data set is accidentally or maliciously deleted, replication quickly deletes it from all copies. Also, if data becomes logically corrupted, it is instantly corrupted in all copies. So, you have to have a point-in-time backup technique for all of your data. You need as many copies as you want recovery points. One copy doesn't give you much security. Keeping n copies on disk can get pricey and consume alot of storage. Also, you need to replicate the n PiT copies to all of your sites so that you can do a logical recovery after a physical fail over. This makes the cost add up even more quickly. TCT is another good option for this. You can keep 1 or 2 copies on disk and then have HSM migrate/expire the older backup copies to cloud object storage which is then available at all of your recovery sites. Glenn Wilcock DFSMS Chief Product Owner -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
Nope. I meant what I said. 300 MB/s. It is what it is. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Allan Staller Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 12:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] ITYM TB, not MB -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 9:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] We have a three-way TS7760 grid--all mirrors of each other. DR box is a TS7760T with a 3584, with some 650 tapes, or so. Yes, it's very much different. With IBM's VTSs you pay for bandwidth. We license 300 MB/s, for instance, on each cluster. If I remember correctly, you can go up to 700 MB/s on the TS7760. A far cry from normal "DASD" boxes. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of kekronbekron Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 10:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Hmm... do a lot of shops use actual cart based tapes ... TS77xx with TS4x00? Don't know if EMC DLm has a cart back-end option. If it's VTL with disk back-end, is that any different from having it all on DASD? - KB ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, July 6, 2020 4:25 PM, R.S. wrote: > I forgot something obvious for me: NEVER USE TAPES FOR APPLICATION DATA. > No jobs should write or read tapes. > Nothing except backup and restore and (optionally) ML2. Managed by HSM > or FDR. Some excepions for archive copies are worth to consider. > Note: you may have 15 years old backup on new shining tape. Migration > from older tape is no nightmare at all. It is simple. > > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > --- > > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > W dniu 06.07.2020 o 12:49, R.S. pisze: > > > W dniu 05.07.2020 o 14:12, kekronbekron pisze: > > > > > Hello List, > > > Just wondering ... assuming there's a primary storage product out > > > there that can store how-many-ever hoo-haa-bytes, and is a good > > > product in general, it should make sense to begin eliminating all > > > tape (3490/3590) use right? > > > First, ML1 & ML2 in HSM, then HSM itself, then rebuild jobs to > > > write to disk, or do SMS/ACS updates to make it all disk reads/writes. > > > Looking at the current storage solutions out there, this is > > > possible, right? > > > What would be the drawbacks (assume that primary storage is super > > > cost-efficient, so there's no need to archive anything). > > > > Few remarks: > > Even the cheapest possible DASD will not replace backup and other > > things (archive copy, etc.) I did replace 3490E tapes with really > > cheap second hand DASD boxes, it was approx. 20 years ago. Been > > There, done that. It wasn't very fine solution, it was cheap and > > working. AFAIR HSM does not like DASD as the output for some > > activities, can't remember details. > > Someone wrote about tapes moved to DR shelter. That's very > > old-fashioned. I would strongly prefer to have remote copy, that > > means two dasd-boxes and connectivity between. > > There are products for tape emulation on CKD disk. It is definitely > > no cheap. It also consume MSU. > > Tapes, even virtual tapes are OFFLINE media from MVS point of view. > > Offline media are good for some ps! mistakes. > > Last, but not least: you assumption is far from reality. DASD is > > still more expensive than tape. The more capacity the difference is bigger. > > Tape (real one) is cheap when talking about carts and very well > > scalable. However tape realm with "first cart" is extremely > > expensive, because drives are expensive, controllers are expensive > > and ATLs are expensive. > > The real decision depends strongly on your capacity, your predicted > > growths, your needs and budget. > > == > > Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: > > - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), > - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub > zapisałeś na dysku). > Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może > wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy,
Re: Storage & tape question
Hi Allan, Nope, he meant MB. The number Rob is talking about it thruput. You pay for the capacity of the pipeline for ingesting data into the VTS in 100 MB/second increments. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Allan Staller Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 11:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: Storage & tape question ITYM TB, not MB -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 9:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] We have a three-way TS7760 grid--all mirrors of each other. DR box is a TS7760T with a 3584, with some 650 tapes, or so. Yes, it's very much different. With IBM's VTSs you pay for bandwidth. We license 300 MB/s, for instance, on each cluster. If I remember correctly, you can go up to 700 MB/s on the TS7760. A far cry from normal "DASD" boxes. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of kekronbekron Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 10:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Hmm... do a lot of shops use actual cart based tapes ... TS77xx with TS4x00? Don't know if EMC DLm has a cart back-end option. If it's VTL with disk back-end, is that any different from having it all on DASD? - KB ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, July 6, 2020 4:25 PM, R.S. wrote: > I forgot something obvious for me: NEVER USE TAPES FOR APPLICATION DATA. > No jobs should write or read tapes. > Nothing except backup and restore and (optionally) ML2. Managed by HSM > or FDR. Some excepions for archive copies are worth to consider. > Note: you may have 15 years old backup on new shining tape. Migration > from older tape is no nightmare at all. It is simple. > > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > --- > > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > W dniu 06.07.2020 o 12:49, R.S. pisze: > > > W dniu 05.07.2020 o 14:12, kekronbekron pisze: > > > > > Hello List, > > > Just wondering ... assuming there's a primary storage product out > > > there that can store how-many-ever hoo-haa-bytes, and is a good > > > product in general, it should make sense to begin eliminating all > > > tape (3490/3590) use right? > > > First, ML1 & ML2 in HSM, then HSM itself, then rebuild jobs to > > > write to disk, or do SMS/ACS updates to make it all disk reads/writes. > > > Looking at the current storage solutions out there, this is > > > possible, right? > > > What would be the drawbacks (assume that primary storage is super > > > cost-efficient, so there's no need to archive anything). > > > > Few remarks: > > Even the cheapest possible DASD will not replace backup and other > > things (archive copy, etc.) I did replace 3490E tapes with really > > cheap second hand DASD boxes, it was approx. 20 years ago. Been > > There, done that. It wasn't very fine solution, it was cheap and > > working. AFAIR HSM does not like DASD as the output for some > > activities, can't remember details. > > Someone wrote about tapes moved to DR shelter. That's very > > old-fashioned. I would strongly prefer to have remote copy, that > > means two dasd-boxes and connectivity between. > > There are products for tape emulation on CKD disk. It is definitely > > no cheap. It also consume MSU. > > Tapes, even virtual tapes are OFFLINE media from MVS point of view. > > Offline media are good for some ps! mistakes. > > Last, but not least: you assumption is far from reality. DASD is > > still more expensive than tape. The more capacity the difference is bigger. > > Tape (real one) is cheap when talking about carts and very well > > scalable. However tape realm with "first cart" is extremely > > expensive, because drives are expensive, controllers are expensive > > and ATLs are expensive. > > The real decision depends strongly on your capacity, your predicted > > growths, your needs and budget. > > == > > Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: > > - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), > - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub > zapisałeś na dysku). > Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może > wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że
Metal C and generated Assembler
I have a Metal C program where I am trying to add some static data via an __asm(“…” : DS(staticdata)) statement, but I am having some issues with the generated assembler code. When I use my own prolog and epilog code, I get: 0007E60 009A8 1997 CKKTESTR CSECT , 00 0007E8 1998 $STATIC DS0D 00 0007E8 1999 DC(336)X'00' 00 00093800938 00828 2000 ORG $STATIC+64 00 000828 000100302001 DCXL8'00010030' 00 00083000830 00830 2002 ORG $STATIC+72 00 000830 F2F1C3E2D9C5C3D72003 DCXL8'F2F1C3E2D9C5C3D7' 00 00083800838 007F8 2004 ORG $STATIC+16 00 0007F8 C5E2C5412005 DC XL16'C5E2C54100010090'00 000808 009000202006 DC XL16'00900020C5E2C3C10001'00 000818 000100802007 DC XL16'0001008000800014'00 00082800828 007E8 2008 ORG $STATIC 00 0007E8 00012009 DCXL4'0001' 00 0007EC007EC 007EC 2010 ORG $STATIC+4 00 0007EC F2F1C3E22011 DC XL12'F2F1C3E27BAD'00 0007F8007F8 00938 2012 ORG , 00 2013 LCLC 00 2014 LCLA 00 2015 LCLA 00 00093800938 00838 2016 ORG $STATIC+80 00 008382017 @@LAB@3 EQU * 00 000838 2018 DS0D Start copyright text on a 00 008382019 TheESET EQU * Address of the ESES 00 000838 F2F1C3E22020 DCCL4'21CSESES' Control block eyecatcher 00 2021 *.DC.F'1'.Control block version 00 2022 *.DC.CL8'CKKTESTR'.CSECT name 00 2023 *.DC.CL8'HTES120'.FMID 00 2024 *.DC.CL8'XXRMIDXX'.RMID 00 2025 *.DC.CL8'21CS-TS1'.PID 00 2026 *.DC.CL19'2020-07-04 02:25:21.816513' 00 2027 *.DC.CL5''.Pad with blanks 00 2028 *.DC.C'Copyright '.Copyright text 00 2029 *.DC.C'(C) Teracloud S.A. '.Copyright Teracloud S.A. 00 2030 *.DC.C'1991,2001'.Insert the year(s) 00 000840 2031 EndCKKModId DS 0D End of ESES and copyright 00 82032 @@LAB@3L EQU *-@@LAB@3 00 2033SETC '@@LAB@3' 00 2034 SETA 256 00 2035SETA @@LAB@3L 00 ** ASMA032E Relocatable value or unresolved symbol found when absolute value required -
Re: [External] Re: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods
There are still some minor issues involved w/vvds, etc. placement, but there are very moinr, and for most volumes will make zero difference. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 10:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] Hi Peter, I don't think anybody answered this question. With modern (read: emulated) boxes I've been told the location of the VTOC/VTOCIX/VVDS don't matter anymore. Back in the SLED days I was a stickler for placing the VTOC & IX 1/3 of the way into the volume, right next to each other to try to minimize head movement. Now, with it all placed on "smoke and mirrors", and with huge cache sizes, the location doesn't matter, so I place them right at the beginning of the volumes so that I have the largest possible contiguous free space - at least until the first dataset on the volume is deleted. :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Peter Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 11:22 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods Hello Thank you so much How do we determine the location of vtoc and index ? Is it possible to place all the mod 27 in same location of cylinder and tracks ? On Sat, 4 Jul, 2020, 9:44 PM Lizette Koehler, wrote: > It depends > > If the volume would have one dataset on it, like my SPOOL Volumes, > then they are very small > > If like in my TSO Pool there are lots of tiny (15 track or less) then > I make them huge. > > So it all depends on > > What the intent of the volume is (1 dataset vs Many Datasets) What > size the volume is (Mod3/9/27/54/EAV) > > You will see an error message when the VTOC or VTOIX is too small. > > > > Hope this helps > > Lizette > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Peter > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 10:12 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods > > Hello Group > > Apology for being ignorant. > > Is there a formula or any constraints for initialising a specific dasd > Mod ? > > How do arrive to a specific vtoc and index value while initialising a > dasd ? > > Please help me to understand > > Peter > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
Re: Storage & tape question
ITYM TB, not MB -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 9:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] We have a three-way TS7760 grid--all mirrors of each other. DR box is a TS7760T with a 3584, with some 650 tapes, or so. Yes, it's very much different. With IBM's VTSs you pay for bandwidth. We license 300 MB/s, for instance, on each cluster. If I remember correctly, you can go up to 700 MB/s on the TS7760. A far cry from normal "DASD" boxes. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of kekronbekron Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 10:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Hmm... do a lot of shops use actual cart based tapes ... TS77xx with TS4x00? Don't know if EMC DLm has a cart back-end option. If it's VTL with disk back-end, is that any different from having it all on DASD? - KB ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, July 6, 2020 4:25 PM, R.S. wrote: > I forgot something obvious for me: NEVER USE TAPES FOR APPLICATION DATA. > No jobs should write or read tapes. > Nothing except backup and restore and (optionally) ML2. Managed by HSM > or FDR. Some excepions for archive copies are worth to consider. > Note: you may have 15 years old backup on new shining tape. Migration > from older tape is no nightmare at all. It is simple. > > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > --- > > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > W dniu 06.07.2020 o 12:49, R.S. pisze: > > > W dniu 05.07.2020 o 14:12, kekronbekron pisze: > > > > > Hello List, > > > Just wondering ... assuming there's a primary storage product out > > > there that can store how-many-ever hoo-haa-bytes, and is a good > > > product in general, it should make sense to begin eliminating all > > > tape (3490/3590) use right? > > > First, ML1 & ML2 in HSM, then HSM itself, then rebuild jobs to > > > write to disk, or do SMS/ACS updates to make it all disk reads/writes. > > > Looking at the current storage solutions out there, this is > > > possible, right? > > > What would be the drawbacks (assume that primary storage is super > > > cost-efficient, so there's no need to archive anything). > > > > Few remarks: > > Even the cheapest possible DASD will not replace backup and other > > things (archive copy, etc.) I did replace 3490E tapes with really > > cheap second hand DASD boxes, it was approx. 20 years ago. Been > > There, done that. It wasn't very fine solution, it was cheap and > > working. AFAIR HSM does not like DASD as the output for some > > activities, can't remember details. > > Someone wrote about tapes moved to DR shelter. That's very > > old-fashioned. I would strongly prefer to have remote copy, that > > means two dasd-boxes and connectivity between. > > There are products for tape emulation on CKD disk. It is definitely > > no cheap. It also consume MSU. > > Tapes, even virtual tapes are OFFLINE media from MVS point of view. > > Offline media are good for some ps! mistakes. > > Last, but not least: you assumption is far from reality. DASD is > > still more expensive than tape. The more capacity the difference is bigger. > > Tape (real one) is cheap when talking about carts and very well > > scalable. However tape realm with "first cart" is extremely > > expensive, because drives are expensive, controllers are expensive > > and ATLs are expensive. > > The real decision depends strongly on your capacity, your predicted > > growths, your needs and budget. > > == > > Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: > > - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), > - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub > zapisałeś na dysku). > Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może > wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia > (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza > prawo i może podlegać karze. > > mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 >
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
Until fairly recently,, there was no native ssh client on Windoze. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 9:57 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ??? [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 09:25:35 -0500, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote: >Not that mystifying. None of those tools try and do key authentication by >default. You need to configure them to use key by telling them which key file >to use. > What is wrong with Windows!? I just tried a synthetic sftp://... with Firefox on MacOS. It just worked. Why can't Windows apps simply agree on one key folder/file? Why do vendors nurture the delusion of competitive advantage in incompatibility? https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ABreak_of_gauge_GWR_Gloucester.jpgdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C0942e6d585784fc0b77d08d821bcd67d%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637296442239782900sdata=kInnpHPMXQ6yvXF9L3CuvJ9%2F8ba%2FUFerYJw921XjkWs%3Dreserved=0 Perhaps it's so: people pay for Windows when they could get Linux free. Conway's law? > >Never tried I/O redirection for sending files using just "ssh", so I'm not >sure. I 99% sure it would work with Cygwin, never used Windows 10 bash, so >I'm not sure about it. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
Lionel, I use Windows as little as possible, but having tried most of the Windows ssh/sftp GUI clients, I would suggest that you look at the free Bitvise ( http://bitvise.com) ssh/sftp client. - it includes a nice interface that gives you both ssh shell and sftp using the same connection. - you can do all kinds of stuff with client and host keys: create, import, export - it works nicely with Co:Z SFTP in data set space (using "/-/" prefixes), and you can even dynamically change settings from the (/+) folder. BTW: we like a desktop password/key manager on Linux and Windows called "Keypass2" and it has an add on for ssh keys. Once you unlock your safe with a strong password, your ssh keys are available (using the SSH agent or PAGENT protocols) to ssh/sftp desktop clients. With "ssh agent forwarding", you can then use this for chained ssh connections. We also use a script on linux for password-less x3270 logins over ssh, but that's another story :-) On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 7:56 AM Lionel B Dyck wrote: > John - thank you - I've got the authorized_keys file in place which allows > me to use ssh/sftp from windows to z/OS without being prompted for a > password. > > I've not figured out the correct incantation to get filezilla/winscp/putty > to honor it however. > > > Lionel B. Dyck < > Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com > > "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what > you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of John S. Giltner, Jr. > Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 7:52 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys > ??? > > I think somehow you might be able to do this in RACF, but we don't. > > Your public key on the Windows host needs to be added to the file > "authorized_keys". Needs to be in your home directory on the z/OS system > in the .ssh sub-directory. So if your home is "/home/lbdyck" on z/OS this > would be /home/lbdyck/.ssh/authorized_keys > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IHS NTLM authentication
On 7/6/20 8:56 AM, Jantje. wrote: Dear listers, Hi, Would any of you have implemented the NTLM authentication scheme in their IBM HTTP Server by Apache on z/OS? This would require the mod_ntlm2, but the Sourceforge files date from 2003, does not seem to support NTLM v2, which is a requirement. Besides, I need to authenticate users against RACF, not against a Windows domain controller... So before I set out on a wild (old...) goose chase, I thought I better ask first. Ugh. You might want to try this on a stock version of Apache, probably on a Linux (virtual) machine somewhere. From memory IBM HTTP Server /should/ be a one-for-one replacement for a comparable version of Apache HTTP Server. But I wouldn't bet on it. Get the procedure down in a more common environment and then try to apply it to IHS. You might also inquire in more typical Apache HTTP Server and / or Oracle HTTP Server (also a recompile of Apache) forums. And if you wonder why... Well... Some powers that be have decided not to allow basic authentication anymore, even over HTTPS. So I am looking for an alternative. The motivation might be annoying. But the request doesn't seem that atypical to me. Thanks and very best regards, Good luck. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods
Hi Peter, I don't think anybody answered this question. With modern (read: emulated) boxes I've been told the location of the VTOC/VTOCIX/VVDS don't matter anymore. Back in the SLED days I was a stickler for placing the VTOC & IX 1/3 of the way into the volume, right next to each other to try to minimize head movement. Now, with it all placed on "smoke and mirrors", and with huge cache sizes, the location doesn't matter, so I place them right at the beginning of the volumes so that I have the largest possible contiguous free space - at least until the first dataset on the volume is deleted. :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Peter Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 11:22 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods Hello Thank you so much How do we determine the location of vtoc and index ? Is it possible to place all the mod 27 in same location of cylinder and tracks ? On Sat, 4 Jul, 2020, 9:44 PM Lizette Koehler, wrote: > It depends > > If the volume would have one dataset on it, like my SPOOL Volumes, > then they are very small > > If like in my TSO Pool there are lots of tiny (15 track or less) then > I make them huge. > > So it all depends on > > What the intent of the volume is (1 dataset vs Many Datasets) What > size the volume is (Mod3/9/27/54/EAV) > > You will see an error message when the VTOC or VTOIX is too small. > > > > Hope this helps > > Lizette > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Peter > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 10:12 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods > > Hello Group > > Apology for being ignorant. > > Is there a formula or any constraints for initialising a specific dasd > Mod ? > > How do arrive to a specific vtoc and index value while initialising a > dasd ? > > Please help me to understand > > Peter > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mainframe co-op
That's correct, happy to answer any questions about the project :-) Possibly as a new thread it better suited. Deeply honored to be mentioned on this list, thanks Grant! On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 09:52 Mike Schwab wrote: > I would assume the goal to be 'use PC disks as mainframe DASD'. > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:46 AM kekronbekron > <02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > > > Would love to know more about what your FICON buddy is working on Grant. > > If you wanna share (prefer off-list?), please email :) > > > > Unless IBM explicitly sets up college courses or NDA-tied free-roam > access or whatever, it's only going to be the likes of zAcademy, i.e., > restricted lab environments to basically market at the command-line, much > like walking the dotten line in an acquarium/zoo/etc. (if you turn to your > right, you can issue 2 commands to Spark on Z) > > > > Funny though, because isn't this exactly what Time Sharing Option was, > when it was first introduced? > > > > - KB > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Friday, July 3, 2020 9:48 PM, Grant Taylor < > 023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > > > > On 7/3/20 10:12 AM, Grant Taylor wrote: > > > > > > > I know multiple people that have CPCs. But they don't currently have > > > > DASD. I think at least one of them has a line on legal licenses for > > > > z/OS for his CPC. > > > > > > One of the people I know is developing his own FICON connected DASD by > > > reading any and all documents he can get his hands on. > > > > > > What do we, as the mainframe community, and IBM, as the big name, need > > > to do to encourage these extremely creative, resourceful, and driven > > > people better access to a functioning mainframe so that they can use > > > their creative talents and drive to help further the mainframe? > > > > > > There are a group of hobbyists and enthusiasts that have taken MVS > 3.8j, > > > which decidedly does not include REXX or prerequisites therefor, and > > > backported (?) REXX to it, including re-creating any prerequisites. > > > > > > This is the creative and enthusiastic spirit that created Unix 50 years > > > ago and helped Linux become what it is today. Just think for a moment > > > where the mainframe could be in 10 or 20 years if even some of these > > > creative efforts were directed at enhancing the mainframe. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Grant. . . . > > > unix || die > > > > > > - > > > > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA > Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
We have a three-way TS7760 grid--all mirrors of each other. DR box is a TS7760T with a 3584, with some 650 tapes, or so. Yes, it's very much different. With IBM's VTSs you pay for bandwidth. We license 300 MB/s, for instance, on each cluster. If I remember correctly, you can go up to 700 MB/s on the TS7760. A far cry from normal "DASD" boxes. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of kekronbekron Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 10:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Storage & tape question [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Hmm... do a lot of shops use actual cart based tapes ... TS77xx with TS4x00? Don't know if EMC DLm has a cart back-end option. If it's VTL with disk back-end, is that any different from having it all on DASD? - KB ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, July 6, 2020 4:25 PM, R.S. wrote: > I forgot something obvious for me: NEVER USE TAPES FOR APPLICATION DATA. > No jobs should write or read tapes. > Nothing except backup and restore and (optionally) ML2. Managed by HSM > or FDR. Some excepions for archive copies are worth to consider. > Note: you may have 15 years old backup on new shining tape. Migration > from older tape is no nightmare at all. It is simple. > > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > --- > > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > W dniu 06.07.2020 o 12:49, R.S. pisze: > > > W dniu 05.07.2020 o 14:12, kekronbekron pisze: > > > > > Hello List, > > > Just wondering ... assuming there's a primary storage product out > > > there that can store how-many-ever hoo-haa-bytes, and is a good > > > product in general, it should make sense to begin eliminating all > > > tape (3490/3590) use right? > > > First, ML1 & ML2 in HSM, then HSM itself, then rebuild jobs to > > > write to disk, or do SMS/ACS updates to make it all disk reads/writes. > > > Looking at the current storage solutions out there, this is > > > possible, right? > > > What would be the drawbacks (assume that primary storage is super > > > cost-efficient, so there's no need to archive anything). > > > > Few remarks: > > Even the cheapest possible DASD will not replace backup and other > > things (archive copy, etc.) I did replace 3490E tapes with really > > cheap second hand DASD boxes, it was approx. 20 years ago. Been > > There, done that. It wasn't very fine solution, it was cheap and > > working. AFAIR HSM does not like DASD as the output for some > > activities, can't remember details. > > Someone wrote about tapes moved to DR shelter. That's very > > old-fashioned. I would strongly prefer to have remote copy, that > > means two dasd-boxes and connectivity between. > > There are products for tape emulation on CKD disk. It is definitely > > no cheap. It also consume MSU. > > Tapes, even virtual tapes are OFFLINE media from MVS point of view. > > Offline media are good for some ps! mistakes. > > Last, but not least: you assumption is far from reality. DASD is > > still more expensive than tape. The more capacity the difference is bigger. > > Tape (real one) is cheap when talking about carts and very well > > scalable. However tape realm with "first cart" is extremely > > expensive, because drives are expensive, controllers are expensive > > and ATLs are expensive. > > The real decision depends strongly on your capacity, your predicted > > growths, your needs and budget. > > == > > Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: > > - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), > - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub > zapisałeś na dysku). > Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może > wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia > (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza > prawo i może podlegać karze. > > mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 > Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. > Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, > NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na > 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. > > If you are not the addressee of this message: > > - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), > - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have > printed out or saved). > This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used > exclusively by the
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 09:25:35 -0500, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote: >Not that mystifying. None of those tools try and do key authentication by >default. You need to configure them to use key by telling them which key file >to use. > What is wrong with Windows!? I just tried a synthetic sftp://... with Firefox on MacOS. It just worked. Why can't Windows apps simply agree on one key folder/file? Why do vendors nurture the delusion of competitive advantage in incompatibility? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Break_of_gauge_GWR_Gloucester.jpg Perhaps it's so: people pay for Windows when they could get Linux free. Conway's law? > >Never tried I/O redirection for sending files using just "ssh", so I'm not >sure. I 99% sure it would work with Cygwin, never used Windows 10 bash, so >I'm not sure about it. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
IHS NTLM authentication
Dear listers, Would any of you have implemented the NTLM authentication scheme in their IBM HTTP Server by Apache on z/OS? This would require the mod_ntlm2, but the Sourceforge files date from 2003, does not seem to support NTLM v2, which is a requirement. Besides, I need to authenticate users against RACF, not against a Windows domain controller... So before I set out on a wild (old...) goose chase, I thought I better ask first. And if you wonder why... Well... Some powers that be have decided not to allow basic authentication anymore, even over HTTPS. So I am looking for an alternative. Thanks and very best regards, Jantje. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
Hmm... do a lot of shops use actual cart based tapes ... TS77xx with TS4x00? Don't know if EMC DLm has a cart back-end option. If it's VTL with disk back-end, is that any different from having it all on DASD? - KB ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, July 6, 2020 4:25 PM, R.S. wrote: > I forgot something obvious for me: NEVER USE TAPES FOR APPLICATION DATA. > No jobs should write or read tapes. > Nothing except backup and restore and (optionally) ML2. Managed by HSM > or FDR. Some excepions for archive copies are worth to consider. > Note: you may have 15 years old backup on new shining tape. Migration > from older tape is no nightmare at all. It is simple. > > - > > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > W dniu 06.07.2020 o 12:49, R.S. pisze: > > > W dniu 05.07.2020 o 14:12, kekronbekron pisze: > > > > > Hello List, > > > Just wondering ... assuming there's a primary storage product out > > > there that can store how-many-ever hoo-haa-bytes, and is a good > > > product in general, it should make sense to begin eliminating all > > > tape (3490/3590) use right? > > > First, ML1 & ML2 in HSM, then HSM itself, then rebuild jobs to write > > > to disk, or do SMS/ACS updates to make it all disk reads/writes. > > > Looking at the current storage solutions out there, this is possible, > > > right? > > > What would be the drawbacks (assume that primary storage is super > > > cost-efficient, so there's no need to archive anything). > > > > Few remarks: > > Even the cheapest possible DASD will not replace backup and other > > things (archive copy, etc.) > > I did replace 3490E tapes with really cheap second hand DASD boxes, it > > was approx. 20 years ago. Been There, done that. It wasn't very fine > > solution, it was cheap and working. AFAIR HSM does not like DASD as > > the output for some activities, can't remember details. > > Someone wrote about tapes moved to DR shelter. That's very > > old-fashioned. I would strongly prefer to have remote copy, that means > > two dasd-boxes and connectivity between. > > There are products for tape emulation on CKD disk. It is definitely no > > cheap. It also consume MSU. > > Tapes, even virtual tapes are OFFLINE media from MVS point of view. > > Offline media are good for some ps! mistakes. > > Last, but not least: you assumption is far from reality. DASD is still > > more expensive than tape. The more capacity the difference is bigger. > > Tape (real one) is cheap when talking about carts and very well > > scalable. However tape realm with "first cart" is extremely expensive, > > because drives are expensive, controllers are expensive and ATLs are > > expensive. > > The real decision depends strongly on your capacity, your predicted > > growths, your needs and budget. > > == > > Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: > > - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), > - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub > zapisałeś na dysku). > Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może > wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia > (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza > prawo i może podlegać karze. > > mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 > Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. > Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, > NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na > 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. > > If you are not the addressee of this message: > > - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), > - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have > printed out or saved). > This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used > exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates > (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the > law and may be penalised. > > mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, > 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for > the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court > Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital > amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler question
01 records start on a double word boundary x'0' or x'8' as the last digit. 77 independent items are sorted by multiple of 8 byte items, 4 bytes items, 2 bytes items, odd number of bytes items. On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 10:00 AM Binyamin Dissen wrote: > > Then one wonders what "aligned" means to you. > > On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 02:37:22 + "Gibney, Dave" wrote: > > :>Actually, it is. But, BLA-2 below is still offset 3 bytes from BLA-RECORD > because BLA-1 is only 3 bytes long > :> > :>> -Original Message- > :>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > :>> Behalf Of Joe Monk > :>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2020 4:38 PM > :>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > :>> Subject: Re: Assembler question > :>> > :>> 01 BLA-RECORD. > :>> 05 BLA-RECORD PIC X(4). > :>> 05 BLA-RECOR2 REDEFINES BLA-RECORD PIC X(3). > :>> > :>> The 01 is aligned. > :>> The 05 is aligned. > :>> The second 05 is not aligned. > :>> > :>> Joe > :>> > :>> > :>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 6:27 PM Binyamin Dissen > :>> > :>> wrote: > :>> > :>> > 01 BLA-RECORD. > :>> >05 BLA-1 PIC X(3). > :>> >05 BLA-2 PIC S9(8) COMP. > :>> > > :>> > Do you truly wish to assert that BLA-2 is aligned? > :>> > > :>> > On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 17:45:37 -0500 Joe Monk > :>> wrote: > :>> > > :>> > :>"Subordinate items are not aligned" > :>> > :> > :>> > :>yeah, no. > :>> > :> > :>> > :>If an 01 is aligned, then the subordinate 05 under the 01 is also > :>> > aligned. > :>> > :>It has to be this way because of REDEFINES. I cant REDEFINE an > unaligned > :>> > :>item into an aligned item. > :>> > :> > :>> > :>77 are aligned because they are standalone, i.e. no grouping. > :>> > :> > :>> > :>Joe > :>> > :> > :>> > :>On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 12:07 PM Binyamin Dissen < > :>> > bdis...@dissensoftware.com> > :>> > :>wrote: > :>> > :> > :>> > :>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:31:55 -0500 Joe Monk > :>> > :>> > wrote: > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> :>Cobol has alignment too. You just dont see it. > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> :>All storage is aligned. > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> The opposite is true. > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> Group (01/77) are aligned. > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> Subordinate items are not aligned unless the SYNC clause is > specified. > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> :>On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 10:24 AM Nguyen Dt > :>> wrote: > :>> > :>> :> > :>> > :>> :>> Thank you all for your inputs, > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> I am over the problem now. > :>> > :>> :>> In fact what i tried to do is to Move some fields to my output > :>> > fields > :>> > :>> and > :>> > :>> :>> then write it as a report. (It is a Db2 performance report, the > :>> > input > :>> > :>> are > :>> > :>> :>> from the trace buffers with the macros given by Db2 libraries) > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> So my program is roughly like this > :>> > :>> :>> READ Buffer on QW... variables > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> MVC OW...,QW... > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> OW... are the output fields i defined it exactly as in the DSECT > :>> > got > :>> > :>> from > :>> > :>> :>> the macros. > :>> > :>> :>> As it is an output field, the position is important (and it is > :>> > why i > :>> > :>> :>> detected a problem in the positions of my fields) > :>> > :>> :>> Its is OK now with OW... variables defined as characters CLx > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> (PS: When i use NOALIGN , the program abends at execution ...) > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> As i learn assembler "on the flight" , there is some important > :>> > things > :>> > :>> that > :>> > :>> :>> i don' t understand , such as the alignment This is > something > :>> > we > :>> > :>> don't > :>> > :>> :>> care in cobol , rexx Can you tell me why assembler has the > :>> > :>> alignment > :>> > :>> :>> in words that are easy to understand and visualize in my little > :>> > head ? > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> Thank you again. > :>> > :>> :>> Duc > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > -- > :>> > :>> :>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > :>> > :>> :>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > :>> > IBM-MAIN > :>> > :>> :>> > :>> > :>> :> > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>-- > :>> > :>> :>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > :>> > :>> :>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > :>> > IBM-MAIN > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> -- > :>> > :>> Binyamin Dissen > :>> > :>> > :>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.dissensoftware.com__;!!JmPEgB > :>> Y0HMszNaDT!7ukskajmEkP2Tw5Qn2mOs09XgC2ntfEiGwVNOOJGqpAatAQH > :>> HBNyvR7NRY-FTg$ > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from > :>> me, > :>> > :>> you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. > :>> > :>> > :>> > :>>
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
Not that mystifying. None of those tools try and do key authentication by default. You need to configure them to use key by telling them which key file to use. Never tried I/O redirection for sending files using just "ssh", so I'm not sure. I 99% sure it would work with Cygwin, never used Windows 10 bash, so I'm not sure about it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 07:56:27 -0500, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >John - thank you - I've got the authorized_keys file in place which allows me >to use ssh/sftp from windows to z/OS without being prompted for a password. > >I've not figured out the correct incantation to get filezilla/winscp/putty to >honor it however. > Mystifying, since sftp is built on ssh. I've found ssh more featured than sftp, with commands such as: pax -w . | ssh pi@raspbpi-3-2700.local "cd $( pwd ) & pwd & pax -rvv" (the geek's MPUT) How does such I/O redirection work on Windows? Does Cygwin or Windows 10 bash help? Of course with z/OS I've had to add an iconv stage to undo the damned ASCII<=>EBCDIC translation. I hate EBCDIC! -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
Oh, just as a F.Y.I, WinSCP and Putty only support using Putty's PPK file format. Filezilla supports both Putty's PPK format and OpenSSH PEM file format. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods
Simple formulae: * # VTOC tracks = (max # datasets you want to have on the volume + max # datasets with > 3 extents + max # EAS datasets + 5) / 50. * # VTOCIX tracks = (max # datasets + 5) / 21; I'd let SMS take care of the VVDS; it can grow if needed. Things that should go without saying (because they're obvious): 1. If you don't know the inputs, then you'll have to estimate, or guess. 2. It's much better to make the VTOC & IX bigger than necessary than too small. sas On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 7:01 AM R.S. wrote: > W dniu 04.07.2020 o 19:12, Peter pisze: > > Hello Group > > > > Apology for being ignorant. > > > > Is there a formula or any constraints for initialising a specific dasd > Mod ? > > > > How do arrive to a specific vtoc and index value while initialising a > dasd ? > > > > Please help me to understand > > > > > > There is no formula. No *simple* formula. VTOC and VTOCIX size depends > on data you plan to keep on the volume. > Big number of small datasets will occupy more VTOC space. Single large > dataset will take very little space. > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
Ah. I have Cygwin installed on my Windows computer and I always use command line. In each of those you need to point to the private key file on your Windows host. For WinSCP edit your connection and select advanced. Look for Authentication under SSH and point to your private key. For Putty load your save setting for the host definition, expand the SSH section, click on Auth and point to your private key file. For Filezilla, edit your profile and in Login type select Key File and point to your key file. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SuperWylbur Users
It is still distributed with full source code. Typically is new JES2 releases that require modules to be re-assembles. I can't really remember the last time we had to re-assemble or make any changes because of z/OS upgrades. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
John - thank you - I've got the authorized_keys file in place which allows me to use ssh/sftp from windows to z/OS without being prompted for a password. I've not figured out the correct incantation to get filezilla/winscp/putty to honor it however. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of John S. Giltner, Jr. Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 7:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ??? I think somehow you might be able to do this in RACF, but we don't. Your public key on the Windows host needs to be added to the file "authorized_keys". Needs to be in your home directory on the z/OS system in the .ssh sub-directory. So if your home is "/home/lbdyck" on z/OS this would be /home/lbdyck/.ssh/authorized_keys -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
I think somehow you might be able to do this in RACF, but we don't. Your public key on the Windows host needs to be added to the file "authorized_keys". Needs to be in your home directory on the z/OS system in the .ssh sub-directory. So if your home is "/home/lbdyck" on z/OS this would be /home/lbdyck/.ssh/authorized_keys -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ???
Now that I have ssh/sftp working from the command line on windows - what is the secret to getting filezilla/putty/winscp to work with the keys without requiring a password? Lionel B. Dyck < Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Grant Taylor Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 1:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Using SSH and SFTP from Windows to z/OS using authorized_keys ??? On 7/5/20 12:02 PM, Lionel B Dyck wrote: > I thought using SSH/SFTP would be able to skip the password by using > my ssh key? Check the permissions of the ~/.ssh folder and all parent folders. Group and other can't have write. Ask the admin to check the ssh server logs. It will almost always say why the key is ignored. There is also a chance that the SSH daemon has been configured to not allow keys. Try adding "-v" to the ssh command to increase verbosity. Make sure that your client is offering the key. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Vtoc and index sizing based on Mods
W dniu 04.07.2020 o 19:12, Peter pisze: Hello Group Apology for being ignorant. Is there a formula or any constraints for initialising a specific dasd Mod ? How do arrive to a specific vtoc and index value while initialising a dasd ? Please help me to understand There is no formula. No *simple* formula. VTOC and VTOCIX size depends on data you plan to keep on the volume. Big number of small datasets will occupy more VTOC space. Single large dataset will take very little space. Solution? If you don't know to much about datasets just use your "defaults". What defaults? I would suggest to start from values used by IBM in ServerPac Installation. Note: nowadays DASD is much cheaper than in the past. You may be more generous for VTOC. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
I forgot something obvious for me: NEVER USE TAPES FOR APPLICATION DATA. No jobs should write or read tapes. Nothing except backup and restore and (optionally) ML2. Managed by HSM or FDR. Some excepions for archive copies are worth to consider. Note: you may have 15 years old backup on new shining tape. Migration from older tape is no nightmare at all. It is simple. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 06.07.2020 o 12:49, R.S. pisze: W dniu 05.07.2020 o 14:12, kekronbekron pisze: Hello List, Just wondering ... assuming there's a primary storage product out there that can store how-many-ever hoo-haa-bytes, and is a good product in general, it should make sense to begin eliminating all tape (3490/3590) use right? First, ML1 & ML2 in HSM, then HSM itself, then rebuild jobs to write to disk, or do SMS/ACS updates to make it all disk reads/writes. Looking at the current storage solutions out there, this is possible, right? What would be the drawbacks (assume that primary storage is super cost-efficient, so there's no need to archive anything). Few remarks: Even the cheapest possible DASD will not replace backup and other things (archive copy, etc.) I did replace 3490E tapes with really cheap second hand DASD boxes, it was approx. 20 years ago. Been There, done that. It wasn't very fine solution, it was cheap and working. AFAIR HSM does not like DASD as the output for some activities, can't remember details. Someone wrote about tapes moved to DR shelter. That's very old-fashioned. I would strongly prefer to have remote copy, that means two dasd-boxes and connectivity between. There are products for tape emulation on CKD disk. It is definitely no cheap. It also consume MSU. Tapes, even virtual tapes are OFFLINE media from MVS point of view. Offline media are good for some ps! mistakes. Last, but not least: you assumption is far from reality. DASD is still more expensive than tape. The more capacity the difference is bigger. Tape (real one) is cheap when talking about carts and very well scalable. However tape realm with "first cart" is extremely expensive, because drives are expensive, controllers are expensive and ATLs are expensive. The real decision depends strongly on your capacity, your predicted growths, your needs and budget. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Storage & tape question
W dniu 05.07.2020 o 14:12, kekronbekron pisze: Hello List, Just wondering ... assuming there's a primary storage product out there that can store how-many-ever hoo-haa-bytes, and is a good product in general, it should make sense to begin eliminating all tape (3490/3590) use right? First, ML1 & ML2 in HSM, then HSM itself, then rebuild jobs to write to disk, or do SMS/ACS updates to make it all disk reads/writes. Looking at the current storage solutions out there, this is possible, right? What would be the drawbacks (assume that primary storage is super cost-efficient, so there's no need to archive anything). Few remarks: Even the cheapest possible DASD will not replace backup and other things (archive copy, etc.) I did replace 3490E tapes with really cheap second hand DASD boxes, it was approx. 20 years ago. Been There, done that. It wasn't very fine solution, it was cheap and working. AFAIR HSM does not like DASD as the output for some activities, can't remember details. Someone wrote about tapes moved to DR shelter. That's very old-fashioned. I would strongly prefer to have remote copy, that means two dasd-boxes and connectivity between. There are products for tape emulation on CKD disk. It is definitely no cheap. It also consume MSU. Tapes, even virtual tapes are OFFLINE media from MVS point of view. Offline media are good for some ps! mistakes. Last, but not least: you assumption is far from reality. DASD is still more expensive than tape. The more capacity the difference is bigger. Tape (real one) is cheap when talking about carts and very well scalable. However tape realm with "first cart" is extremely expensive, because drives are expensive, controllers are expensive and ATLs are expensive. The real decision depends strongly on your capacity, your predicted growths, your needs and budget. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler question
Then one wonders what "aligned" means to you. On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 02:37:22 + "Gibney, Dave" wrote: :>Actually, it is. But, BLA-2 below is still offset 3 bytes from BLA-RECORD because BLA-1 is only 3 bytes long :> :>> -Original Message- :>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On :>> Behalf Of Joe Monk :>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2020 4:38 PM :>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :>> Subject: Re: Assembler question :>> :>> 01 BLA-RECORD. :>> 05 BLA-RECORD PIC X(4). :>> 05 BLA-RECOR2 REDEFINES BLA-RECORD PIC X(3). :>> :>> The 01 is aligned. :>> The 05 is aligned. :>> The second 05 is not aligned. :>> :>> Joe :>> :>> :>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 6:27 PM Binyamin Dissen :>> :>> wrote: :>> :>> > 01 BLA-RECORD. :>> >05 BLA-1 PIC X(3). :>> >05 BLA-2 PIC S9(8) COMP. :>> > :>> > Do you truly wish to assert that BLA-2 is aligned? :>> > :>> > On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 17:45:37 -0500 Joe Monk :>> wrote: :>> > :>> > :>"Subordinate items are not aligned" :>> > :> :>> > :>yeah, no. :>> > :> :>> > :>If an 01 is aligned, then the subordinate 05 under the 01 is also :>> > aligned. :>> > :>It has to be this way because of REDEFINES. I cant REDEFINE an unaligned :>> > :>item into an aligned item. :>> > :> :>> > :>77 are aligned because they are standalone, i.e. no grouping. :>> > :> :>> > :>Joe :>> > :> :>> > :>On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 12:07 PM Binyamin Dissen < :>> > bdis...@dissensoftware.com> :>> > :>wrote: :>> > :> :>> > :>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:31:55 -0500 Joe Monk :>> :>> > wrote: :>> > :>> :>> > :>> :>Cobol has alignment too. You just dont see it. :>> > :>> :>> > :>> :>All storage is aligned. :>> > :>> :>> > :>> The opposite is true. :>> > :>> :>> > :>> Group (01/77) are aligned. :>> > :>> :>> > :>> Subordinate items are not aligned unless the SYNC clause is specified. :>> > :>> :>> > :>> :>On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 10:24 AM Nguyen Dt :>> wrote: :>> > :>> :> :>> > :>> :>> Thank you all for your inputs, :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> I am over the problem now. :>> > :>> :>> In fact what i tried to do is to Move some fields to my output :>> > fields :>> > :>> and :>> > :>> :>> then write it as a report. (It is a Db2 performance report, the :>> > input :>> > :>> are :>> > :>> :>> from the trace buffers with the macros given by Db2 libraries) :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> So my program is roughly like this :>> > :>> :>> READ Buffer on QW... variables :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> MVC OW...,QW... :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> OW... are the output fields i defined it exactly as in the DSECT :>> > got :>> > :>> from :>> > :>> :>> the macros. :>> > :>> :>> As it is an output field, the position is important (and it is :>> > why i :>> > :>> :>> detected a problem in the positions of my fields) :>> > :>> :>> Its is OK now with OW... variables defined as characters CLx :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> (PS: When i use NOALIGN , the program abends at execution ...) :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> As i learn assembler "on the flight" , there is some important :>> > things :>> > :>> that :>> > :>> :>> i don' t understand , such as the alignment This is something :>> > we :>> > :>> don't :>> > :>> :>> care in cobol , rexx Can you tell me why assembler has the :>> > :>> alignment :>> > :>> :>> in words that are easy to understand and visualize in my little :>> > head ? :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> Thank you again. :>> > :>> :>> Duc :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :>> :>> > -- :>> > :>> :>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :>> > :>> :>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO :>> > IBM-MAIN :>> > :>> :>> :>> > :>> :> :>> > :>> :>> > :>-- :>> > :>> :>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :>> > :>> :>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO :>> > IBM-MAIN :>> > :>> :>> > :>> -- :>> > :>> Binyamin Dissen :>> > :>> :>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.dissensoftware.com__;!!JmPEgB :>> Y0HMszNaDT!7ukskajmEkP2Tw5Qn2mOs09XgC2ntfEiGwVNOOJGqpAatAQH :>> HBNyvR7NRY-FTg$ :>> > :>> :>> > :>> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel :>> > :>> :>> > :>> :>> > :>> Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from :>> me, :>> > :>> you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. :>> > :>> :>> > :>> I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, :>> > :>> especially those from irresponsible companies. :>> > :>> :>> > :>> -- :>> > :>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :>> > :>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- :>> MAIN :>> > :>> :>> > :> :>> > :>-- :>> > :>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access
