Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
Jim, It is obvious that pages must be paged out for Journaling, but must they also be paged in, can't they be reclaimed when plenty memory is available? Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Jim Mulder > Sent: 23 September, 2019 18:00 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > The purpose of journaling is to allow a job to be restarted. > > In order to restart a job which is using VIO, the VIO data sets need > to be preserved. > > In order for the VIO data sets to be preserved, they must be written > out to page data sets, Real storage owned by a job is not > preserved. > > The system is behaving exactly as intended. If your job does not > require restart capability, you should run it in a job class which is > defined with JOURNAL=NO. > > Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp. > Poughkeepsie NY > > > David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/23/2019 11:15:05 AM: > > > From: David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS > > To: ibm-main@listserv.ua.edu > > Date: 09/23/2019 11:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and he's > > since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even for a > very > > small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for > the > > reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. > > We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified > for > > the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. > > We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the eventual > > determination of what's causing this. > > > > > > Have a nice day, > > Dave Betten > > z/OS Performance Specialist > > Cloud and Systems Performance > > IBM Corporation > > email: bet...@us.ibm.com > > > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on > > 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > > > > > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > > > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > > > Shivang, > > > > > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > > > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > > > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > > > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > > > > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > > > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > > > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > > > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > > > > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > > > > > > > > > RON HAWKINS > > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > > > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > > > Not sure on what is left to check? > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged mate
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
But of course you follow up that journaling with CLPA at IPL... RON HAWKINS Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jim Mulder Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2019 02:00 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem The purpose of journaling is to allow a job to be restarted. In order to restart a job which is using VIO, the VIO data sets need to be preserved. In order for the VIO data sets to be preserved, they must be written out to page data sets, Real storage owned by a job is not preserved. The system is behaving exactly as intended. If your job does not require restart capability, you should run it in a job class which is defined with JOURNAL=NO. Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie NY David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/23/2019 11:15:05 AM: > From: David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS > To: ibm-main@listserv.ua.edu > Date: 09/23/2019 11:53 AM > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and > he's since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even > for a very > small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for the > reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. > We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified for > the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. > We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the > eventual determination of what's causing this. > > > Have a nice day, > Dave Betten > z/OS Performance Specialist > Cloud and Systems Performance > IBM Corporation > email: bet...@us.ibm.com > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on > 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > > > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem Sent by: IBM > > Mainframe Discussion List > > > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > Shivang, > > > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > > > > > RON HAWKINS > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > > > Hi, > > > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > > Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
The purpose of journaling is to allow a job to be restarted. In order to restart a job which is using VIO, the VIO data sets need to be preserved. In order for the VIO data sets to be preserved, they must be written out to page data sets, Real storage owned by a job is not preserved. The system is behaving exactly as intended. If your job does not require restart capability, you should run it in a job class which is defined with JOURNAL=NO. Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie NY David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/23/2019 11:15:05 AM: > From: David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS > To: ibm-main@listserv.ua.edu > Date: 09/23/2019 11:53 AM > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and he's > since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even for a very > small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for the > reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. > We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified for > the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. > We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the eventual > determination of what's causing this. > > > Have a nice day, > Dave Betten > z/OS Performance Specialist > Cloud and Systems Performance > IBM Corporation > email: bet...@us.ibm.com > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on > 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > > > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > Shivang, > > > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > > > > > RON HAWKINS > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > > > Hi, > > > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > > Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and he's since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even for a very small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for the reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified for the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the eventual determination of what's causing this. Have a nice day, Dave Betten z/OS Performance Specialist Cloud and Systems Performance IBM Corporation email: bet...@us.ibm.com IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Shivang, > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > RON HAWKINS > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > Hi, > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > Not sure on what is left to check? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ron Hawkins Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem Shivang, My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? RON HAWKINS Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shivang Sharma Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem Hi, My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
