Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
För Bill Fairchild
Skickat: den 3 oktober 2012 18:53
Till: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Ämne: Re: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light goes
out
IBM is not in business to make mainframes or to keep legacy mainframers
employed. IBM
Thomas Berg wrote:
Is that not a tautology ? :)
(Could You be in a *business* without the goal to make profits ?)
Yes, as long you have one or other tax evavise scheme [1] in place to make
serious PROFITS! ;-)
Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht
[1] - In the good old days, the shop owners
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SV: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light goes out
Is that not a tautology ? :)
(Could You be in a *business* without the goal to make profits ?)
Regards,
Thomas Berg
___
Thomas Berg
A sometime IBM chairman made Bill's point negatively, in a once
celebrated phrase. that phrase was
IBM is not an eleemosynary organization.
Profit seeking is not, however, a constructive objective. A company
must decide how to make profits and, crucially, over what time horizon
to try to
W dniu 2012-10-03 06:36, Ed Finnell pisze:
Few years back one of the SW conference schools had a nasty power
outage(not a squirrel attack) and last message on console was a SIM alert NVS
battery needs replacing...they got to restore the complex.
I bet the message was not so last, or at least
You don't always get to choose. Some companies are compartmentalized, and the
staff for the old platform is not permitted to work on the new. Some companies
will allow you to work on the new platform only if you already have experience
on it.
Something long ago lost in this thread was a point
- Was RE: Another Light goes out
I know that there will be people on this list that will insist that the
mainframe platform is absolutely viable for the foreseeable future. But what
they are really saying is that they will support it as long as it is
profitable, and drop it the very day
I heard it third hand from DR provider. They had backup, but it was lengthy
affair. We had a couple 'departmental servers' that got hacked-literally
took the mother boards and hard drives. When they were rebuilt-'ready for
backup'.
Uh, don't you have it?
In a message dated 10/3/2012
, John J
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light goes out
I know that there will be people on this list that will insist that the
mainframe platform is absolutely viable for the foreseeable
, October 03, 2012 3:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light
goes out
Bill,
They are also in the business of making hardware, my father worked for
Unisys and when I mentioned I wanted to get into this industry he's the
one
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light goes out
They are also
Bill Fairchild wrote:
It is my opinion that they will also dump their hardware business the day it
no longer is profitable.
Another thing to keep in mind, that as a product line declines, the costs to
support that product line must also decrease, or the remaining customers must
bear an ever
John,
I understand, but someone is going to have support all the Banking legacy
mainframes apps etc.
There are a serious numerous with serious bucks invested. There at or time and
the numbers probably are larger, we're 8000+ z/os installation, not sure how
many licenses , Lpars, etc.
Scott
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 19:48:27 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
I understand, but someone is going to have support all the Banking legacy
mainframes apps etc.
There are a serious numerous with serious bucks invested. There at or time and
the numbers probably are larger, we're 8000+ z/os installation, not
Gil,
Yeah I agree, also other platforms has to have fast enough I/O. CPUs are faster
and faster but
I/ O is always the bottleneck. Prices should be also geared toward the smaller
platforms.
Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 18:33:29 -0500, Roberts, John J wrote:
Has anyone seen this NY Times article? Perhaps the reporter should have
looked in the Times Tower for how they are saving power. Mainframes are far
more efficient, and these CIO's and companies are doing whatever they can do
to get rid
(3) The CPU chip makers are about to apply Mobile technology to their Server
CPU's. Mobile CPU's dynamically adjust their clock speeds to fit the
workload, sometimes running at 200MHz and at other times running full
throttle at 2GHz+ or more. Server CPU's will soon do the same. When
W dniu 2012-10-02 10:37, Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4) pisze:
(3) The CPU chip makers are about to apply Mobile technology to
their Server CPU's. Mobile CPU's dynamically adjust their clock
speeds to fit the workload, sometimes running at 200MHz and at
other times running full throttle at 2GHz+ or
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:46:04 -0500, Roberts, John J jrobe...@dhs.state.ia.us
wrote:
Well, to each his own. You can either resist change, or you can embrace it. I
chose to embrace it. I think it has extended my career.
Oh I went along for the ride with the outsourcing all right, moved around
Roberts, John J wrote:
So while we might have 1TB drives in our desktops, the enterprise RAID arrays
are stuck at 73GB-146GB-300GB per HDA.
Actually, z/OS has supported 1TB drives (EAVs) on DS8Ks since z/OS R10,
which went out of service last year. In R10 we supported VSAM, in R11
we added
John Eells wrote:
Actually, z/OS has supported 1TB drives (EAVs) on DS8Ks since z/OS R10, which
went out of service last year. In R10 we supported VSAM, in R11 we added
Extended Format sequential, and in R12 (the oldest release now in service) we
added support for almost everything else.
Roberts, John J jrobe...@dhs.state.ia.us wrote in message
news:93891f43642f3c419a7d75acc2b1db6f3cbc75f...@exchangemb2.dhs.state.i
a.us...
John Eells wrote:
Actually, z/OS has supported 1TB drives (EAVs) on DS8Ks since z/OS
R10, which went out of service last year. In R10 we supported VSAM, in
Roberts, John J wrote:
John Eells wrote:
Actually, z/OS has supported 1TB drives (EAVs) on DS8Ks since z/OS R10, which went out of
service last year. In R10 we supported VSAM, in R11 we added Extended Format sequential,
and in R12 (the oldest release now in service) we added support for
John Roberts wrote:
begin extract
Has anyone seen this NY Times article? Perhaps the reporter should
have looked in the Times Tower for how they are saving power.
end extract
Since his words are being recopied over and over it is appropriate to
note that the New York Times Company has not owned
On 2 October 2012 10:20, John Eells ee...@us.ibm.com wrote:
Roberts, John J wrote:
So while we might have 1TB drives in our desktops, the enterprise RAID
arrays are stuck at 73GB-146GB-300GB per HDA.
Actually, z/OS has supported 1TB drives (EAVs) on DS8Ks since z/OS R10,
which went out of
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of John Gilmore
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Power - Was RE: Another Light goes out
John Roberts wrote:
begin extract
Has anyone seen
But this surely has little if anything to do with the size of the physical
drives used by the makers of storage subsystems.
If storage array makers are using 1TB drives vs the 73GB that was typical just
a couple years back, this should translate to many fewer drives. Which should
translate
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:46:04 -0500, Roberts, John J jrobe...@dhs.state.ia.us
wrote:
Well, to each his own. You can either resist change, or you can embrace
it. I chose to embrace it. I think it has extended my career.
And even if you don't leave the mainframe, knowing more about the
W dniu 2012-10-02 17:58, Roberts, John J pisze:
[...]
One thing that would be interesting to learn: how much of a typical
data center's power consumption is attributable to storage
subsystems, including RAID and Virtual Tape?
Significant part of. Surely more than mainframe CPC, but less than
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light goes out
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:46:04 -0500, Roberts, John J jrobe...@dhs.state.ia.us
wrote:
Well, to each his own. You can either resist change, or you can
embrace it. I chose to embrace it. I think it has extended my
: Tuesday, 02 October 2012 10:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light goes
out
Which side does this put me on:
I didn't know what GIYF meant.
I Googled it to find out.
Ironic
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Klein, Kevin k.kl...@gwccnet.com wrote:
Which side does this put me on:
I didn't know what GIYF meant.
I Googled it to find out.
Ironic?
Maybe, but you've passed the test -- the folks who were about to reply
asking what it meant, check
GIYF and others of that ilk (STFW, RTFM, etc., etc.) have their uses,
but they are unlikely to defeat sloth here.
--jg
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu
One thing no one else has mentioned is that one of the strengths of having many
disks is that you can be doing I/O on many more drives at the same time. After
all, you can only do 1 read or write from physical disk at a time. Of course,
with the huge amounts of cache, that changes. If your
On Oct 2, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com wrote:
One thing no one else has mentioned is that one of the strengths of having
many disks is that you can be doing I/O on many more drives at the same time.
After all, you can only do 1 read or write from physical disk at
Yep, it's like across instead of pronouncing it with a 't' , acrosst ...
Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll
understand. - Chinese Proverb
On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:53 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote:
GIYF and others
On 10/02/2012 02:41 PM, Pew, Curtis G wrote:
On Oct 2, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com wrote:
One thing no one else has mentioned is that one of the strengths of having many
disks is that you can be doing I/O on many more drives at the same time. After
all, you can
Few years back one of the SW conference schools had a nasty power
outage(not a squirrel attack) and last message on console was a SIM alert NVS
battery needs replacing...they got to restore the complex.
In a message dated 10/2/2012 10:07:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
jcew...@acm.org
There's also static power save mode. That feature debuted in the z196. If
you have sustained low or zero utilization periods it's generally worth
using. Or if you're running much quicker than you need to be within your
batch window(s) then you might use this feature.
The word static is perhaps a
-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
För Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Skickat: den 30 september 2012 15:18
Till: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Ämne: Re: Another Light goes out
In
of5f9fc7b7.58700431-on48257a88.002b14ff
John's reason #7 reminds me of when management was sugar coating the decision
to outsource our entire shop, how it would 'bolster your personal portfolio'!
win-win!
Dana
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access
John's reason #7 reminds me of when management was sugar coating the decision
to outsource our entire shop, how it would 'bolster your personal portfolio'!
win-win!
Well, to each his own. You can either resist change, or you can embrace it. I
chose to embrace it. I think it has extended
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Roberts, John J
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 4:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Career Advice for the Mainframer - Was RE: Another Light goes out
John's reason #7 reminds me of when management was sugar coating the
decision to outsource our entire shop
Has anyone seen this NY Times article? Perhaps the reporter should have
looked in the Times Tower for how they are saving power. Mainframes are far
more efficient, and these CIO's and companies are doing whatever they can do
to get rid of them. Maybe the Times needs a mirror
Well, besides
In
ce3ffbb7e42033469ef752a1d8a19ba10216f...@kl1221tc.cs.ad.klmcorp.net,
on 09/27/2012
at 03:52 PM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM kees.verno...@klm.com said:
That way, Linux is not free, you have to buy a PC first,
You don't need to buy a PC from Linus Torvalds to run Linux, and you
don't need a PC at
In 5064c431.8000...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 09/27/2012
at 11:25 PM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said:
We (me and others) claim that .NET framework is free of charge.
Having it does not involve any additional cost.
Does that mean that you will steal a copy of windoze? You are not
1. .Net framework is NOT bundled as notepad o minesweeper. It is
distributed separately.
2. You cannot order z/OS without VTAM and TCPIP, but this is off-topic.
BTW: You can order enhanced security for VTAM (Sec Lvl3), this is
optional.
3. You compare TSO to .NET, but it's bad comparison.
Light goes out
In 5064c431.8000...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 09/27/2012
at 11:25 PM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said:
We (me and others) claim that .NET framework is free of charge.
Having it does not involve any additional cost.
Does that mean that you will steal a copy of windoze? You
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ed Gould
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another Light goes out
John:
Your points
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another Light goes out
snip
Is it legal for you to download .net
Is it legal for you to download .net without owning a windoze license and then
to run it under, e.g., ODIN, wine? If not, then it is not free.
Parts of the .Net Framework are Open Source. Google MONO Project for more
info. Like the following statement:
Mono is a software platform designed to
On 9/28/2012 at 12:25 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:32:30 -0500, McKown, John wrote:
... they simply assume that everybody already has a PC and is running
MS-Windows. I buy my PCs from a vendor (ZaReason) who bundles Linux (distro
of your choice)
This continuing dispute reminds me, not a little, of those
13th-century controversies about whether in translation from point A
to a remote point B angels pass through the intervening space.
Here much depends upon one's situation at acquisition-decision time.
If one wants to use AppNew and finds
W dniu 2012-09-27 06:56, Timothy Sipples1 pisze:
Michael Knigge writes:
The .NET Framework is free of charge.
No, that's highly misleading. Microsoft provides the core .NET Framework at
no additional charge with Microsoft Windows, such as with Microsoft Windows
Server. You most certainly do
In
of146f19ea.fc6ac4d6-on86257a85.003eeb52-86257a85.003f0...@agfinance.com,
on 09/26/2012
at 06:28 AM, Ron Wells ron.we...@slfs.com said:
and too bad...but then computer world has always been a MS fan..
That seems unlikely, given when they started.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg
In 5063f617.80...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 09/27/2012
at 08:45 AM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said:
Excuse me, what is misleading? It's obviousm that .NET framework
work on Windows operating system and the windows is not free of
charge. However you can have Windows (for money) and
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J. shmuel+...@patriot.net wrote in message
news:20120927125900.3d407f58...@smtp.patriot.net...
In 5063f617.80...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 09/27/2012
at 08:45 AM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said:
Excuse me, what is misleading? It's obviousm that .NET framework
r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl (R.S.) writes:
Excuse me, what is misleading? It's obviousm that .NET framework work
on Windows operating system and the windows is not free of
charge. However you can have Windows (for money) and get the framework
with no additional cost. That means it's FREE OF
a few consultants? 84,500 hrs = 42 person-yrs
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU wrote on
09/26/2012 12:06:30 AM:
From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9231499/
Ohio_mainframe_exodus_wraps_up_in_84_500_hours?taxonomyId=68
a few consultants? 84,500 hrs = 42 person-yrs
Ohio interviewed me back in late 2008 for a role on this project. So they have
been working on it for nearly 4 years. So an average team size of 11 or 12.
Given that they did it with mostly State Staff, they would have had a steep
learning
W dniu 2012-09-27 17:01, Joel C. Ewing pisze:
On 09/27/2012 08:52 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote:
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J. shmuel+...@patriot.net wrote in message
news:20120927125900.3d407f58...@smtp.patriot.net...
In 5063f617.80...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 09/27/2012
at 08:45 AM, R.S.
Ed Gould wrote:
Ohio_mainframe_exodus_wraps_up_in_84_500_hours
Quote:
Most of the applications on the mainframe were written in Pacbase, an old IBM
programming language that became increasingly difficult to support as veteran
programmers retired.
Very disturbing. They moved to .NET
Very disturbing. They moved to .NET environment on windoze platforms. Is that
movement not more expensive due to licensing?
The .NET Framework is free of charge. The IDE from Microsoft is quite
expensive (Visual Studio, starting at somewhat about $500 up to $8.000
if I remember correctly).
Don't botherthese clowns have there heads up there ...no real
knowledge of systems ..
From: Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 09/26/2012 02:14 AM
Subject:Re: Another Light goes out
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion
and too bad...but then computer world has always been a MS fan..
From: Michael Knigge michael.kni...@set-software.de
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 09/26/2012 02:58 AM
Subject:Re: Another Light goes out
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 3:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another Light goes out
Ed Gould wrote:
Ohio_mainframe_exodus_wraps_up_in_84_500_hours
Quote:
Most of the applications on the mainframe were written in Pacbase, an old IBM
programming
W dniu 2012-09-26 09:14, Elardus Engelbrecht pisze:
Ed Gould wrote:
Ohio_mainframe_exodus_wraps_up_in_84_500_hours
Quote:
Most of the applications on the mainframe were written in Pacbase, an old IBM
programming language that became increasingly difficult to support as veteran programmers
On 09/26/2012 02:14 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:
Ed Gould wrote:
Ohio_mainframe_exodus_wraps_up_in_84_500_hours
Quote:
Most of the applications on the mainframe were written in Pacbase, an old IBM
programming language that became increasingly difficult to support as veteran programmers
W dniu 2012-09-26 16:01, Ed Gould pisze:
ELARDUS:
I am NOT a UNISYS person.
But from reading a little I think they can simulate CICS (supposedly
programs run unchanged).
Can you provide any reference for the above?
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
--
Tre tej wiadomoci moe
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:09 PM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.plwrote:
W dniu 2012-09-26 16:01, Ed Gould pisze:
ELARDUS:
I am NOT a UNISYS person.
But from reading a little I think they can simulate CICS (supposedly
programs run unchanged).
Can you provide any reference for the
W dniu 2012-09-26 16:01, Ed Gould pisze:
ELARDUS:
I am NOT a UNISYS person.
But from reading a little I think they can simulate CICS (supposedly
programs run unchanged).
Can you provide any reference for the above?
Confusion between UniKix (now Clerity) and Unisys?
I can think of
R.S.
No I cannot. I remember reading about unisys stepping on IBM toes
when a company wanted to get rid of the mainframe. It was a couple of
years ago and UNISYS was heralding the fact that they could do this.
No details other than it took the source and either compiled it or
ran it on
Michael Knigge writes:
The .NET Framework is free of charge.
No, that's highly misleading. Microsoft provides the core .NET Framework at
no additional charge with Microsoft Windows, such as with Microsoft Windows
Server. You most certainly do pay for Windows licensing and support
(servers and
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9231499/
Ohio_mainframe_exodus_wraps_up_in_84_500_hours?taxonomyId=68
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the
74 matches
Mail list logo
