Old Subject: Re: With regrets, after many years I will no longer be
following IBM-MAIN
New Subject: Re: Asking questions and learning.
On 9/4/23 12:36 AM, Brian Westerman wrote:
I think even the ones that abuse the list the most still provide
assistance from time to time that is very useful.
This is why -- if I feel the need -- I'll create a filter rule to mark
messages as read for specific criteria; sender, subject, age, etc., but
leave them in situ. That way I can go back and read them if I want to.
I completely understand that oftentimes they want the person to RTFM,
which makes a lot of sense because you also don't want the list to
become a primary school.
Ya, "do my homework for me" type statements, not even questions, tend to
become quite annoying quite quickly.
The "new guys" need to learn how to use the manuals and I think the
"old guys" are trying to, in their own way, help them to see that
using the manuals and figuring stuff out is a good thing.
Most of the time I try to refer people to specific sections of specific
manuals or suggest a set of search criteria that I think will get people
close to what they are looking for or trying to understand.
Occasionally I'll even suggest something that's more background reading,
telling them as such, and a reason why they should read more than just
the section with the answer they seek. Often I append after you've done
that, let's have a conversation based on what you will have read. Or
something to that effect.
N.B. I'm perfectly fine with shoes on the other feet and find advice
like above to be quite helpful.
Where it becomes an issue is when the newbie honestly can't figure
it out and may have truly tried to find the solution on their own.
Agreed.
It might be helpful for them, in fact everyone, to disclose what you
have already tried or read about, that way everyone will see that they
are trying and won't just kiss them off as using the list instead of
manuals (and the internet) as opposed to using it in conjunction with
attempting to learn.
Absolutely.
This is the "do my homework assignment" thing I was describing above.
What have you read on the topic, what have you tried, why were the
results not satisfactory, what are you trying to achieve, etc. These
are all things that help the people who you are trying to get to help you.
Sometimes they may have actually read the solution, but just don't
see it as such, and by disclosing what they have tried so far will
allow people to let them know where they missed something. I think
that no one likes to think that the guy asking the question is not
even really trying to work the problem. But without disclosing the
path they are currently on, we have no way to know otherwise.
I was talking with someone the other day whom, for various reasons, they
felt that they could not demonstrate failure in front of others. As
such, asking for help was sometimes very hard for them. They felt it
easier to try multiple different things and fail than to potentially
demonstrate failure.
There are many reasons people do what they do and there are as many
different ways that people learn.
Just a thought.
:-)
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
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