In 503d2b0b.6010...@neo.tamu.edu, on 08/28/2012
at 03:33 PM, Richard Peurifoy r-peuri...@neo.tamu.edu said:
I think BSAM/QSAM will simulate an EOF without doing any I/O to the
data set if you try to read it.
I'd prefer an ABEND.
Note that if you first write to it first then [B|Q]SAM will
In 503cfd09.1010...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 08/28/2012
at 07:16 PM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said:
BTW: it's NOT similar to /dev/null or DD DUMMY.
Of course it is.
Zero-space dataset is real object, consuming real resources
(VTOC, maybe catalog) with no real (as intended) use.
In 1384193780234110.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on
08/28/2012
at 06:26 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:
I believe this is the behavior of QSAM. BSAM at least in the past
behaved otherwise; cheerfully reading residual, likely invalid,
data.
For a zero-extent dataset
] On
Behalf
Of Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4)
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 10:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
I'm trying for an example. But what command can I use to list SPACE?
Neither LISTDS nor LISTCAT seems to do it for me. (But do I just not
know
, 2012 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Space Allocation In Bytes
W dniu 2012-08-25 17:49, Skip Robinson pisze:
Zero space allocation is perfectly valid.
Valid, but illogical. Data set with zero size is illogical.
As is SPACE (0,1) also. The
result is just
Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of retired mainframer
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 9:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
:: -Original Message-
:: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-
m
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Space Allocation In Bytes
W dniu 2012-08-25 17:49, Skip Robinson pisze:
Zero space allocation is perfectly valid.
Valid, but illogical. Data set with zero size is illogical.
As is SPACE (0,1) also. The
result is just as requested. In either case
In 503bf5eb.5010...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 08/28/2012
at 12:34 AM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said:
Valid, but illogical. Data set with zero size is illogical.
No.
That's exploitation of side effect. Stilla valid (it works, so
it is valid), but it's still illogical.
It's
In 2147353307588112.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on
08/27/2012
at 06:43 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:
But its length attribute is nonzero. In fact, IIRC, HLASM will
never create a symbol with length attribute of zero;
Don't confuse symbol with SET symbol.
The
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 00:45:25 -0700, Lizette Koehler wrote:
Peter,
I works fine if working in ISPF. But when the question of line command is
requested, I am thinking along the lines of a simple interface that could be
used batch or foreground.
Thanks for your understanding. Simply, there are
In 2627995591725082.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on
08/27/2012
at 07:09 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:
... so SPACE=(0,1) does allocate space.
What's in your ACS?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel
We
:: -Original Message-
:: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:: Behalf Of Ed Gould
:: Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 10:31 PM
:: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:: Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
::
:: LiZette:
::
:: I think you can get a freeware
W dniu 2012-08-28 17:59, Roger W. Suhr pisze:
No, it's not illogical. We use Format 1 DSCB entries as model DSCB for
GDG's and other things. No data space use is needed for that, so we
allocate TRK=0. No problem there!
Well, it depends on the point of view.
Datasets by definition are for
Attempting to distinguish empty files from nul strings and the like
Ron Skorupka writes:
begin extract
Zero-space dataset is real object, consuming real resources (VTOC,
maybe catalog) with no real (as intended) use.
end extract/
but nul strings also consume resources in just this way. The PL/I
I made 'Radoslaw' into 'Ron', for which I apologize.
--jg
On 8/28/12, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote:
Attempting to distinguish empty files from nul strings and the like
Ron Skorupka writes:
begin extract
Zero-space dataset is real object, consuming real resources (VTOC,
maybe
We still have some too.
Linda
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 27, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:02 PM, retired mainframer
retired-mainfra...@q.com wrote:
Doesn't anyone use model DSCBs anymore?
We still have some hanging around.
--
On 8/28/2012 3:19 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J. shmuel+...@patriot.net wrote:
In 503bf5eb.5010...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 08/28/2012
at 12:34 AM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said:
Valid, but illogical. Data set with zero size is illogical.
No.
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
From: Richard Peurifoy r-peuri...@neo.tamu.edu
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 08/28/2012 01:33 PM
Subject:Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:33:15 -0500, Richard Peurifoy wrote:
But for CKD doesn't there have to be some place to write the EOF?
I think BSAM/QSAM will simulate an EOF without doing any I/O
to the data set if you try to read it.
Yup. As I said here lately, I've depended on that behavior in the
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 14:45:42 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
I know that ISPF Browse will show 'no data' if it judges from the VTOC
that utilization is zero, as in 3.2, regardless of what might be there
physically. OTOH IEBGENER attempts read a file until EOF regardless of
VTOC info. I ran GENER to
: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
:: -Original Message-
:: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:: Behalf Of R.S.
:: Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:17 AM
:: To: IBM-MAIN
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Skip Robinson
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
Zero space allocation is perfectly valid. As is SPACE (0,1) also. The result is
just as requested. In either case, the data set exists
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
From: Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 08/25/2012 09:50 AM
Subject:Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
Sent by:IBM
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:36:58 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
I'm curious about the experiment that shows something on disk. ZAP command
says 'DATA SET UNAVAILABLE OR NON-EXISTENT'. IEHLIST says 'THE ABOVE
DATASET HAS NO EXTENTS'. What view of the disk shows something on a data
track?
I'm trying
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 4:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:36:58 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
I'm
-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
From: R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 08/27/2012 03:35 PM
Subject:Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
W dniu 2012-08-25 17:49, Skip Robinson
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 16:26:40 -0700, Lizette Koehler wrote:
What kind of space are you looking for?
LISTC name ALL will provide space info on VSAM but not NON VSAM
It's NONVSAM.
If you want space on NON VSAM then I think the PDS utility on the CBTTAPE.ORG
would work.
So I have to go out and
I was careful to use the value-byte-count attribute k'whatever'
The HLASM 'length' attribute, L'something, should have a different
name and a different attribute indicator. What it yields in
non-trivial cases is not at all what novices expect it to yield,
Regrettably, it is 10+ lustra too late
:: -Original Message-
:: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:: Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
:: Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 5:09 PM
:: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:: Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
::
:: On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 16:26:40 -0700, Lizette
:: -Original Message-
:: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:: Behalf Of R.S.
:: Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 3:34 PM
:: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:: Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
::
:: W dniu 2012-08-25 17:49, Skip Robinson pisze
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:02 PM, retired mainframer
retired-mainfra...@q.com wrote:
Doesn't anyone use model DSCBs anymore?
We still have some hanging around.
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
: Monday, August 27, 2012 4:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:36:58 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
I'm curious about the experiment that shows something on disk. ZAP
command says 'DATA SET UNAVAILABLE OR NON-EXISTENT'. IEHLIST says
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 14:06:04 +0200, R.S. wrote:
BTW: your allocation request was
illogical - you wanted to have 80-byte records and requested 1 byte.
Such request has to be re-interpreted or canceled. ;-)
As in:
DD LRECL=80,SPACE=(1,...),...
Seveal contributors argued that there
: 08/25/2012 08:27 AM
Subject:Re: Space Allocation In Bytes
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 14:06:04 +0200, R.S. wrote:
BTW: your allocation request was
illogical - you wanted to have 80-byte records and requested 1 byte
On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 08:49:49 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
Zero space allocation is perfectly valid. As is SPACE (0,1) also. The
result is just as requested. In either case, the data set exists in the
VTOC but takes up no space on disk.
Ummm... no. By experiment, it allocates one track. There
Hi,
I am probably asking a very simple Question but I am unable to interpret
Properly. I tried allocating a PS file with space Unit=Bytes, Primary as
1,RECFM=FB,LRECL=80, but when I view the Dataset Information shows the
primary Extent is occupied with *55840 bytes* :
General Data
Jake,
Minimum allocation for a file on DASD is one track.
Richard
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Jake anderson
Sent: 08 August 2012 01:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Space Allocation In Bytes
Hi,
I
W dniu 2012-08-08 13:40, Jake anderson pisze:
Hi,
I am probably asking a very simple Question but I am unable to interpret
Properly. I tried allocating a PS file with space Unit=Bytes, Primary as
1,RECFM=FB,LRECL=80, but when I view the Dataset Information shows the
primary Extent is
On Aug 8, 2012, at 06:06, R.S. wrote:
BTW: your allocation request was
illogical - you wanted to have 80-byte records and requested 1 byte.
Such request has to be re-interpreted or canceled. ;-)
I believe the block specification is an average. As such, it's
not required to be a
W dniu 2012-08-08 16:00, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
On Aug 8, 2012, at 06:06, R.S. wrote:
BTW: your allocation request was
illogical - you wanted to have 80-byte records and requested 1 byte.
Such request has to be re-interpreted or canceled. ;-)
I believe the block specification is an
A zero byte VB record is expanded to 1 blank x'40' so the minimum is a
block of 9 bytes including block size and record size field.
I tried to allocate a FB 6 0 to hold a list of volsers for a table,
LRL under 10 would not work.
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com
On Aug 8, 2012, at 09:11, Mike Schwab wrote:
A zero byte VB record is expanded to 1 blank x'40' so the minimum is a
block of 9 bytes including block size and record size field.
??? No.
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/dgt2d490/3.1.3.1.2
Title: z/OS V1R12
W dniu 2012-08-08 17:11, Mike Schwab pisze:
A zero byte VB record is expanded to 1 blank x'40' so the minimum is a
block of 9 bytes including block size and record size field.
I tried to allocate a FB 6 0 to hold a list of volsers for a table,
LRL under 10 would not work.
Do you mean
In 0fdb46cc-7d2e-4887-9f5c-fc29d9c2b...@aim.com, on 08/08/2012
at 09:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:
I do not find a stated minimum for the BDW. Absent firm
information, I'll assume 4-byte blocks (nothing but BDW) are
permissible.
No, the minimum ios 8; see 3.2.3.1 Block
In
CAJTOO58735VUTbFZ-GL2hvGg5=p=zoaf0271gsclbqt0y4j...@mail.gmail.com,
on 08/08/2012
at 10:11 AM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said:
A zero byte VB record is expanded to 1 blank x'40' so the minimum is
a block of 9 bytes including block size and record size field.
Are you sure didn't
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
shmuel+...@patriot.net wrote:
In
CAJTOO58735VUTbFZ-GL2hvGg5=p=zoaf0271gsclbqt0y4j...@mail.gmail.com,
on 08/08/2012
at 10:11 AM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said:
deleted
I tried to allocate a FB 6 0 to hold a list of volsers
In
CAJTOO5-_jCQt3_wepucjBcEqhu7sNFbv7TcE=4vabeyj5mv...@mail.gmail.com,
on 08/08/2012
at 02:15 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said:
On TSO ISPF 3.2, it failed with record length too short so I kept
adding 1 to the LRECL until 10 worked. This was about 9 years ago.
Well, ISPF has its
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