Re: VIO dataset problem
Ron, I must have been in the pre-SMS time. We do use SMS now. Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > Sent: 24 September, 2019 9:20 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > Kees, > > Possibly a redundant and risky method, given the ease and granularity of > the DFSMS approach. > > Ron > > > RON HAWKINS > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM > Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:32 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > When we already ran from 3390, we kept the VIO device a 3380, in order to > limit the amount of VIO data. > > Kees. > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > > Sent: 24 September, 2019 7:52 > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > Allen, > > > > I like to think that most sights would manage this with DFSMS, and > > define a 3390 device as the VIO model. > > > > I'm not sure what the smallest supported device type is nowadays, but > > the > > 2314 disappeared as the device of choice for throttling VIO size a > > long time ago. > > > > Having one track geometry makes life easier, even with SDB. > > > > > > RON HAWKINS > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Allan Staller > > Sent: Monday, 23 September 2019 22:35 > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > > > Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the > > max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Steve Thompson > > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks. > > > > Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. > > Expct mistaks > > > > > > > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma > wrote: > > > > > > Hi , > > > > > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind > > > using > > VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is > > excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > > > IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ::DISCLAIMER:: > > > > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and > > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not > > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be > > intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or > > may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with > > or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability > > on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, > > presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not > > necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. > > Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, > > modification, distribution and / or publication of this message > > without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL > > is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error > > please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any > > email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other >
Re: VIO dataset problem
Kees, Possibly a redundant and risky method, given the ease and granularity of the DFSMS approach. Ron RON HAWKINS Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:32 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem When we already ran from 3390, we kept the VIO device a 3380, in order to limit the amount of VIO data. Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > Sent: 24 September, 2019 7:52 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > Allen, > > I like to think that most sights would manage this with DFSMS, and > define a 3390 device as the VIO model. > > I'm not sure what the smallest supported device type is nowadays, but > the > 2314 disappeared as the device of choice for throttling VIO size a > long time ago. > > Having one track geometry makes life easier, even with SDB. > > > RON HAWKINS > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Allan Staller > Sent: Monday, 23 September 2019 22:35 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the > max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Steve Thompson > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks. > > Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. > Expct mistaks > > > > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma wrote: > > > > Hi , > > > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind > > using > VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is > excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > > IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ::DISCLAIMER:: > > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be > intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or > may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with > or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability > on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, > presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not > necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. > Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, > modification, distribution and / or publication of this message > without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL > is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error > please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any > email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of th
Re: VIO dataset problem
When we already ran from 3390, we kept the VIO device a 3380, in order to limit the amount of VIO data. Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > Sent: 24 September, 2019 7:52 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > Allen, > > I like to think that most sights would manage this with DFSMS, and define > a 3390 device as the VIO model. > > I'm not sure what the smallest supported device type is nowadays, but the > 2314 disappeared as the device of choice for throttling VIO size a long > time ago. > > Having one track geometry makes life easier, even with SDB. > > > RON HAWKINS > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Allan Staller > Sent: Monday, 23 September 2019 22:35 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the > max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Steve Thompson > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks. > > Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. > Expct mistaks > > > > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma wrote: > > > > Hi , > > > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using > VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is > excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ::DISCLAIMER:: > > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain > viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without > referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the > originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented > in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily > reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of > reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, > distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior > written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and > notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or > attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shal
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
Jim, It is obvious that pages must be paged out for Journaling, but must they also be paged in, can't they be reclaimed when plenty memory is available? Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Jim Mulder > Sent: 23 September, 2019 18:00 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > The purpose of journaling is to allow a job to be restarted. > > In order to restart a job which is using VIO, the VIO data sets need > to be preserved. > > In order for the VIO data sets to be preserved, they must be written > out to page data sets, Real storage owned by a job is not > preserved. > > The system is behaving exactly as intended. If your job does not > require restart capability, you should run it in a job class which is > defined with JOURNAL=NO. > > Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp. > Poughkeepsie NY > > > David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/23/2019 11:15:05 AM: > > > From: David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS > > To: ibm-main@listserv.ua.edu > > Date: 09/23/2019 11:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and he's > > since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even for a > very > > small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for > the > > reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. > > We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified > for > > the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. > > We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the eventual > > determination of what's causing this. > > > > > > Have a nice day, > > Dave Betten > > z/OS Performance Specialist > > Cloud and Systems Performance > > IBM Corporation > > email: bet...@us.ibm.com > > > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on > > 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > > > > > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > > > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > > > Shivang, > > > > > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > > > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > > > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > > > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > > > > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > > > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > > > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > > > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > > > > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > > > > > > > > > RON HAWKINS > > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > > > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > > > Not sure on what is left to check? > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged mate
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
But of course you follow up that journaling with CLPA at IPL... RON HAWKINS Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jim Mulder Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2019 02:00 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem The purpose of journaling is to allow a job to be restarted. In order to restart a job which is using VIO, the VIO data sets need to be preserved. In order for the VIO data sets to be preserved, they must be written out to page data sets, Real storage owned by a job is not preserved. The system is behaving exactly as intended. If your job does not require restart capability, you should run it in a job class which is defined with JOURNAL=NO. Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie NY David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/23/2019 11:15:05 AM: > From: David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS > To: ibm-main@listserv.ua.edu > Date: 09/23/2019 11:53 AM > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and > he's since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even > for a very > small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for the > reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. > We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified for > the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. > We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the > eventual determination of what's causing this. > > > Have a nice day, > Dave Betten > z/OS Performance Specialist > Cloud and Systems Performance > IBM Corporation > email: bet...@us.ibm.com > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on > 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > > > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem Sent by: IBM > > Mainframe Discussion List > > > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > Shivang, > > > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > > > > > RON HAWKINS > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > > > Hi, > > > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > > Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
Allen, I like to think that most sights would manage this with DFSMS, and define a 3390 device as the VIO model. I'm not sure what the smallest supported device type is nowadays, but the 2314 disappeared as the device of choice for throttling VIO size a long time ago. Having one track geometry makes life easier, even with SDB. RON HAWKINS Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Allan Staller Sent: Monday, 23 September 2019 22:35 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks. Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct mistaks > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma wrote: > > Hi , > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using VIO is > to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is excessive is > there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . > > Thanks > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
The purpose of journaling is to allow a job to be restarted. In order to restart a job which is using VIO, the VIO data sets need to be preserved. In order for the VIO data sets to be preserved, they must be written out to page data sets, Real storage owned by a job is not preserved. The system is behaving exactly as intended. If your job does not require restart capability, you should run it in a job class which is defined with JOURNAL=NO. Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie NY David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/23/2019 11:15:05 AM: > From: David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS > To: ibm-main@listserv.ua.edu > Date: 09/23/2019 11:53 AM > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and he's > since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even for a very > small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for the > reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. > We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified for > the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. > We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the eventual > determination of what's causing this. > > > Have a nice day, > Dave Betten > z/OS Performance Specialist > Cloud and Systems Performance > IBM Corporation > email: bet...@us.ibm.com > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on > 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > > > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > > > Shivang, > > > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > > > > > RON HAWKINS > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > > > Hi, > > > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > > Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and he's since opened a PMR on the problem. When his job uses VIO even for a very small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for the reads. With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory. We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified for the job class). Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging. We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the eventual determination of what's causing this. Have a nice day, Dave Betten z/OS Performance Specialist Cloud and Systems Performance IBM Corporation email: bet...@us.ibm.com IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM: > From: "Mullen, Patrick" > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem > > Shivang, > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? > > > > RON HAWKINS > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem > > Hi, > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > Not sure on what is left to check? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ron Hawkins Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem Shivang, My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? RON HAWKINS Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shivang Sharma Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem Hi, My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks. Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct mistaks > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma wrote: > > Hi , > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using VIO is > to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is excessive is > there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . > > Thanks > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
IIRC, the limit of a VIO dataset is the size of the emulated Dasd volume. Non-extended datasets also have the limit of 65535 tracks. Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Steve Thompson > Sent: 22 September, 2019 5:16 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem > > If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks. > > Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. > Expct mistaks > > > > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma wrote: > > > > Hi , > > > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using > VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is > excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
Shivang, My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down. Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins. You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate. Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs? RON HAWKINS Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971) m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shivang Sharma Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem Hi, My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
It is normal for VIO to be paged out and it is normal for VIO to not be paged out; why do you believe that what is happening is abnormal or a problem? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Shivang Sharma Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 3:33 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: VIO dataset problem Hi everybody, I am facing an unusual problem with VIO datasets. I submit 5 instances of the same job within a span of 5 minutes. Out of them 3 shows VIO being paged out . The other runs seems to be fine . Not able to understand what can be causing this? Thanks in advance. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
VIO is at the level of EXCP; it simulates CKD DASD on the paging files. There should be ne dependency on what access method is using EXCP. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Jon Perryman Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 11:12 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem I'm sure there must be controls but I familiar with them. You mentioned BDAM. Maybe VIO is not fully compatible with BDAM when it pages out a VIO block. As for paging, it will occur even if it's only some. At this point, you are trying to find the cause. I'm just giving you what could be possible factors that you may be overlooking. Jon. On Saturday, September 21, 2019, 06:22:25 PM PDT, Shivang Sharma wrote: Hi , We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . Thanks -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
> On Sunday, September 22, 2019, 02:46:54 AM PDT, Shivang Sharma wrote: My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. VIO should not cause a hang. Report the problem to IBM. This will have you take a dump so they can look at why your jobs are hanging. Jon. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
You haven't described any problem... ITschak בתאריך יום א׳, 22 בספט׳ 2019, 12:47, מאת Shivang Sharma : > Hi, > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. > Not sure on what is left to check? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
Hi, My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well. Not sure on what is left to check? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks. Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct mistaks > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma wrote: > > Hi , > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using VIO is > to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is excessive is > there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . > > Thanks > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
I'm sure there must be controls but I familiar with them. You mentioned BDAM. Maybe VIO is not fully compatible with BDAM when it pages out a VIO block. As for paging, it will occur even if it's only some. At this point, you are trying to find the cause. I'm just giving you what could be possible factors that you may be overlooking. Jon. On Saturday, September 21, 2019, 06:22:25 PM PDT, Shivang Sharma wrote: Hi , We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . Thanks -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
Hi , We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure . Thanks -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: VIO dataset problem
On Saturday, September 21, 2019, 12:33:07 PM PDT, Shivang Sharma wrote: > 3 show VIO being paged out . Paging VIO is not necessarily a bad thing. Check for excessive amount of data being written to VIO. Check storage usage for the system. Maybe another address space is using a lot of storage. Change to disk and keep the files. Maybe the address space is looping and you are not having a VIO problem. Look at the file sizes to see if they are excessive. Run an IEBGENER from the saved datasets to a VIO dataset to see if it hangs. Jon. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
VIO dataset problem
Hi everybody, I am facing an unusual problem with VIO datasets. I submit 5 instances of the same job within a span of 5 minutes. Out of them 3 shows VIO being paged out . The other runs seems to be fine . Not able to understand what can be causing this? Thanks in advance. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
