Was: X86 server - Competitive economic advantage of System z plus z/OS compared with x86 plus (Linux or windoze)
Just an additional comment to the past discussions. I agree that a big MF installation (e.g. running a number of sysplexes of z10 EC CECs or z196 with a number of say 10 to 50 LPARs) has in fact no reason to migrate to Intel based machines. I was working for a Bavarian manufacturing company as a contractor since 1995+ and this company had the serious plan to get rid of their mainframe zoo (several 3090s 600J at that time). Ten years later they cancelled this plan after having learned that the migration would become too costly. Now the MF is in its ancestral place there with a slightly changed role as an application server for legacy programs and a DB2 machine. In my opinion this was an example how clever IBM handles its customers: Big installations operate plenty of application programs that represent an asset of billions of € (or $). In the case of the Bavarian manufacturer the number was about 100,000 homegrown programs. The customer’s method of decision, if only taken into account the TOCs (mainly license fees on the MF site and migration effort to switch to the other architecture), is known by IBM, of course. So, since IBM wants its customers to stay with the MF, they calculate that part of the costs they can influence – the license fees - according to the simple rule to make it a bit more costly to migrate than to stay – quite simple. OTOH, if you look at the global big new companies (e.g. Google, Amazon, Facebook), nobody of them is running MF systems because these companies are not captivated by legacy systems. Instead, Google (as known to the public) is running a cluster version of Linux based on commodity machines, Amazon is a pioneer in cloud computing (see: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/08/15/amazon-direct-connect-comes-to-new-york/) , and Facebook’s architecture is described here: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/06/27/facebook-server-storage-designs/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Was: X86 server - Competitive economic advantage of System z plus z/OS compared with x86 plus (Linux or windoze)
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 13:06:13 +0200, Arthur Fichtl wrote: OTOH, if you look at the global big new companies (e.g. Google, Amazon, Facebook), nobody of them is running MF systems because these companies are not captivated by legacy systems. Instead, Google (as known to the public) is running a cluster version of Linux based on commodity machines, Amazon is a pioneer in cloud computing (see: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/08/15/amazon-direct-connect-comes-to-new-york/ ) Which mostly shows a photograph of an empty computer room. They could put anything in there. , and Facebook’s architecture is described here: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/06/27/facebook-server-storage-designs/ What's impressive here is that they don't buy off-the-shelf hardware systems; they design their own. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Was: X86 server - Competitive economic advantage of System z plus z/OS compared with x86 plus (Linux or windoze)
On Aug 26, 2012, at 6:06 AM, Arthur Fichtl wrote: SNIP- OTOH, if you look at the global big new companies (e.g. Google, Amazon, Facebook), nobody of them is running MF systems because these companies are not captivated by legacy systems. Instead, Google (as known to the public) is running a cluster version of Linux based on commodity machines, Amazon is a pioneer in cloud computing (see: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/ archives/2012/08/15/amazon-direct-connect-comes-to-new-york/) , and Facebook’s architecture is described here: http:// www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/06/27/facebook-server- storage-designs/ I can't find it know but I believe it was mentioned on here that Google (maybe others as well) does have a mainframe. Not for search engine stuff but for the business side (payroll etc)... Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Was: X86 server - Competitive economic advantage of System z plus z/OS compared with x86 plus (Linux or windoze)
I saw the same exercise in a pharm. company trying to go from MVS, multiple Lpars to unix. Several millions of $$$ and it was a bustsome applications were difficult to convert Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Aug 26, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net wrote: On Aug 26, 2012, at 6:06 AM, Arthur Fichtl wrote: SNIP- OTOH, if you look at the global big new companies (e.g. Google, Amazon, Facebook), nobody of them is running MF systems because these companies are not captivated by legacy systems. Instead, Google (as known to the public) is running a cluster version of Linux based on commodity machines, Amazon is a pioneer in cloud computing (see: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/08/15/amazon-direct-connect-comes-to-new-york/) , and Facebook’s architecture is described here: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/06/27/facebook-server-storage-designs/ I can't find it know but I believe it was mentioned on here that Google (maybe others as well) does have a mainframe. Not for search engine stuff but for the business side (payroll etc)... Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
