Re: z/OSMF and Zowe
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:47:21 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote: >On 9/19/2023 6:39 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote: >> Zowe, last I saw, ships an SMP/E install as well as a “convenience” build >> that is basically a pax file. Given that Zowe basically updates on a >> frequent basis the update is basically replacing the core software so pax is >> far easier. > >In my experience just the opposite is true. > >The 'pax' is a manual download/install effort each time. > >By contrast, once a product has been installed with SMP/E, it >immediately qualifies for automatic unattended RECEIVE ORDER (including >HOLDDATA). We do this daily. Also Zowe is orderable on IBM SHOPZ as 5698-ZWG IBM Z Dist for Zowe 2.0 if you also want IBM support. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: z/OSMF and Zowe
On 9/19/2023 6:39 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote: Zowe, last I saw, ships an SMP/E install as well as a “convenience” build that is basically a pax file. Given that Zowe basically updates on a frequent basis the update is basically replacing the core software so pax is far easier. In my experience just the opposite is true. The 'pax' is a manual download/install effort each time. By contrast, once a product has been installed with SMP/E, it immediately qualifies for automatic unattended RECEIVE ORDER (including HOLDDATA). We do this daily. We perform automatic ACCEPT/APPLY every weekend of Zowe (and 62 other SMP/E installed products). We could never pull off such a feat if we had to use the 'pax' method for Zowe or any of the others. -- Phoenix Software International Edward E. Jaffe 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution, review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: z/OSMF and Zowe
I think that it comes down to provenance (is where it came from trusted) as well as a need for support when something goes wrong. The community support is best effort with no warranties. Other vendors like IBM, Rocket and Broadcom are now pre-requing the Zowe and as such they provide support and the customer downloads the package from the vendor. At least for Broadcom, it’s the same package as distributed by the Zowe community but most large Z shops won’t even let you access the site. I was on the customer side of the fence for many years and no one wants to say that the thing I’m using came from OpenSource if there is an issue. We want someone to call at 0-dark-thirty when things go wrong. I’m not sure that this requirement has changed. I think that’s the same issue with the Rocket and other ports of common Linux tools although I think those are less impactful to production for the most part. In our world, outages come with post-mortems. Matt Hogstrom “It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive." — Hogstrom > On Sep 20, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Robin Atwood wrote: > > Thanks, Brian and Matt. Perhaps the fact that you can get Zowe directly from > IBM will help mitigate the prejudice against open source! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: z/OSMF and Zowe
Thanks, Brian and Matt. Perhaps the fact that you can get Zowe directly from IBM will help mitigate the prejudice against open source! Robin -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Brian Westerman Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: z/OSMF and Zowe I believe you can still order CBIPO, but z/OSMF does (unfortunately) seem to be the way IBM wants everyone to go. I personally disagree with z/OSMF for many reasons (most of them due to overhead and capability restrictions), but mine seems to be a waste of breath. :) Any way ZOWE is open source, and many shops won't allow that. It's actually a pretty good idea, but still some shops see open source as inherently evil. Brian -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: z/OSMF and Zowe
I believe you can still order CBIPO, but z/OSMF does (unfortunately) seem to be the way IBM wants everyone to go. I personally disagree with z/OSMF for many reasons (most of them due to overhead and capability restrictions), but mine seems to be a waste of breath. :) Any way ZOWE is open source, and many shops won't allow that. It's actually a pretty good idea, but still some shops see open source as inherently evil. Brian -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: z/OSMF and Zowe
If you want to ship a product that uses Zowe vendors can prereq Zowe. I’d contact Bruce Armstrong at IBM to talk about that. He is involved in the Zowe community and can give some guidance. You can ask questions to the Zowe Community here on their Slack https://openmainframeproject.slack.com/archives/CBVJGPWHX Zowe, last I saw, ships an SMP/E install as well as a “convenience” build that is basically a pax file. Given that Zowe basically updates on a frequent basis the update is basically replacing the core software so pax is far easier. Matt Hogstrom From Lord of the Rings, when Frodo decides to leave the Fellowship and go to Mordor alone . . . Frodo: “I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.” Gandalf: “So do all who live to see such things. But it is not for them to decide. All you have to do is decide what to do with this time that is given to you.” > On Sep 19, 2023, at 5:42 AM, Robin Atwood wrote: > > > OTOH, Zowe is an open-source project that the average shop will not be using? > So if you want to ship a product that uses it, the customer will have to > install it? > > > TIA > > Robin > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
z/OSMF and Zowe
Would it be correct to say that every shop has z/OSMF installed because that is the only method of updating your system that IBM now supports? Ordering CBPDOs (or whatever they were called) is no longer an option? OTOH, Zowe is an open-source project that the average shop will not be using? So if you want to ship a product that uses it, the customer will have to install it? TIA Robin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
