Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred)]

Oops…

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Bob 
Bridges <0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:12:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the 
Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.  
-Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHypotheses_non_fingo=05%7C02%7Cfred.van.der.windt%40ING.COM%7Cab0be5de8e514fd3c66308dc33f359df%7C587b6ea13db94fe1a9d785d4c64ce5cc%7C0%7C0%7C638442367492217320%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=jyJaoCGWdaIPPS1n594s5UO%2BzbNFKJvY14SruOvyCZ8%3D=0<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Michael Oujesky]

Not just the power grid, but all electronics and 
presuming the flare(s) don't match other great ones:
<https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/radiocarbon/article/viewFile/3464/pdf>LaViolette.fm 
(arizona.edu)

Michael

At 01:50 AM 2/23/2024, Mike Schwab wrote:


Yep.  Magnetic fields moving over power lines generating massive
amounts of current.
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/44957/20230721/quebec-blackout-1989-lessons-geomagnetic-storm-shocked-entire-nation.htm

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 9:08 PM Michael 
Oujesky  wrote:

>
> And all it will take is one solar flare like 
the one in 1859 (Carrington event) to take the 
world back to pre-electricity days

>
> 
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2012/detecting-the-perfect-solar-storm/#:~:text=If%20a%20massive%20storm%20like,U.S.%20National%20Academy%20of%20Sciences.

>
> Michael
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024, at 8:06 PM,Seymour J Metz wrote:
> > Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with
> > fax modems?
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> > × ÖµÖ£×¦Ö·×— יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֭ר
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
> > behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >
> > Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> Behalf Of zMan
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >>
> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >>
> >> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> >> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> >> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld

> >> >
> >> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> >> l-krugm
> >> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> >> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >> >
> >> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> >> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >> >
> >> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> >> 7Ce292b02ec
> >> >
> >> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> >> C0%7C0%7C6
> >> >
> >> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> >> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >> >
> >> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> >> e42Xnjdr
> >> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> >> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> >> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> >> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
>

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Mike Schwab]

Yep.  Magnetic fields moving over power lines generating massive
amounts of current.
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/44957/20230721/quebec-blackout-1989-lessons-geomagnetic-storm-shocked-entire-nation.htm

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 9:08 PM Michael Oujesky  wrote:
>
> And all it will take is one solar flare like the one in 1859 (Carrington 
> event) to take the world back to pre-electricity days
>
> https://www.bu.edu/articles/2012/detecting-the-perfect-solar-storm/#:~:text=If%20a%20massive%20storm%20like,U.S.%20National%20Academy%20of%20Sciences.
>
> Michael
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024, at 8:06 PM,Seymour J Metz wrote:
> > Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with
> > fax modems?
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
> > behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >
> > Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> Behalf Of zMan
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >>
> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >>
> >> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> >> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> >> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
> >> >
> >> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> >> l-krugm
> >> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> >> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >> >
> >> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> >> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >> >
> >> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> >> 7Ce292b02ec
> >> >
> >> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> >> C0%7C0%7C6
> >> >
> >> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> >> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >> >
> >> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> >> e42Xnjdr
> >> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> >> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> >> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> >> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> >> > That should be 11994.
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
> >> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
> >> >
> >> > The 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Michael Oujesky]

And all it will take is one solar flare like the one in 1859 (Carrington event) 
to take the world back to pre-electricity days

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2012/detecting-the-perfect-solar-storm/#:~:text=If%20a%20massive%20storm%20like,U.S.%20National%20Academy%20of%20Sciences.

Michael

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024, at 8:06 PM,Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with 
> fax modems?
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on 
> behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
>
> Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> Behalf Of zMan
>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
>>
>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>>
>> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
>> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
>> > what he said. Here’s the context.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
>> >
>> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
>> l-krugm
>> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
>> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
>> >
>> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
>> vp0KkVgyslQg
>> >
>> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
>> 7Ce292b02ec
>> >
>> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
>> C0%7C0%7C6
>> >
>> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
>> MDAiLCJQIjoi
>> >
>> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
>> e42Xnjdr
>> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
>> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
>> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
>> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
>> >
>> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
>> > That should be 11994.
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
>> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
>> >
>> > The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
>> >
>> > A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will
>> > have forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year
>> > predictions for, e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
>> >
>> > I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non
>> > fingo <
>> >
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDm

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Gibney, Dave]

To be honest, I have no idea. I would guess the multi-function options

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 6:07 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> 
> Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with fax
> modems?
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F*smetz3__%3
> Bfg!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!vtEIyO7q3_40wDYVUmS8Oxv-
> 9SE_HXWFBQARve4T98ajMlwwnavpy1WKQnIPd9DNKjONNwxpVjHLnA%24
> =05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7C32f0263c4f6a4b23380e08dc
> 34141fad%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7C0%7C0%7C63844
> 2508281868496%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C
> ata=jFC%2FHrP8BsuorMyG5WqE5QoCzORFa2Fg5reP%2FibT8UQ%3D
> ed=0
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
> behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-
> requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> 
> Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of zMan
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >
> > The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> > requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> > > what he said. Here’s the context.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> > efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-
> web.cisco.com%2F1CieSMPaZwvAT
> > Ho3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-
> tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxon
> > dPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-
> iUSprkR
> > mplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-
> lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZ
> >
> Rysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abf
> d4xRxhiX
> > U5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-
> ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy
> > 8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-
> 9Q6JrVg%2Fht
> >
> tps*3A*2F*2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*2
> 5
> >
> 3A*252F*252Furld__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUl!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!vtEIyO7q3_40
> wDYVUm
> > S8Oxv-
> 9SE_HXWFBQARve4T98ajMlwwnavpy1WKQnIPd9DNKjONNwyRlsIiJg%24
> ata=0
> >
> 5%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7C32f0263c4f6a4b23380e08dc34141fa
> d%7Cb52be47
> >
> 1f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7C0%7C0%7C638442508281876390%7CU
> nknown%7CTWF
> >
> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
> VCI6M
> >
> n0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=bPcy1uJlMKIOoeS46gqFzOhpDwlK8Ha8zg
> ghsk%2BRMks
> > %3D=0
> > >
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> > l-krugm
> > > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> > 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> > >
> >
> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> > vp0KkVgyslQg
> > >
> >
> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> > 7Ce292b02ec
> > >
> >
> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> > C0%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> > MDAiLCJQIjoi
> > >
> >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> > e42Xnjdr
> > > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> > > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear
> > > that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than
> > > the fax machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in
>

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with fax 
modems?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of zMan
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>
> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >
> >
> >
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> l-krugm
> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >
> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >
> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> 7Ce292b02ec
> >
> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> C0%7C0%7C6
> >
> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> e42Xnjdr
> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >
> > ---
> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >
> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> > That should be 11994.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
> >
> > The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
> >
> > A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will
> > have forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year
> > predictions for, e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
> >
> > I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non
> > fingo <
> >
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHypo
> theses_non_fingo__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUVU8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ
> 5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmXvp0KkVgyslQgBkUcCIgOi
> etLWEjpRKs5ifv%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7Ce292b02
> ecab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5
> %7C0%7C0%7C638442436003413344

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Gibney, Dave]

Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of zMan
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> 
> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >
> >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> l-krugm
> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >
> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >
> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> 7Ce292b02ec
> >
> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> C0%7C0%7C6
> >
> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> e42Xnjdr
> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >
> > ---
> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >
> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> > That should be 11994.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
> >
> > The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
> >
> > A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will
> > have forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year
> > predictions for, e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
> >
> > I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non
> > fingo <
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHypo
> theses_non_fingo__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUVU8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ
> 5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmXvp0KkVgyslQgBkUcCIgOi
> etLWEjpRKs5ifv%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7Ce292b02
> ecab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5
> %7C0%7C0%7C638442436003413344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey
> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
> %7C0%7C%7C%7C=I69SwWniPcqnRRWi98MnELuNXk1a6kYh%2B1kY
> H9wRX2g%3D=0 >.
> >
> > On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor
> > intensive and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better
> > suited for the job.
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> 
> 
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[zMan]

The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly what
> he said. Here’s the context.
>
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-12?amp
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the
> Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
>
> Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> That should be 11994.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Allan Staller
> Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
>
> The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
>
> A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have
> forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for,
> e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
>
> I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.
>
> On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor
> intensive and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better
> suited for the job.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly what he 
said. Here’s the context.

https://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-12?amp





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges 
<0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the 
Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.  
-Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left. 
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[zMan]

> Current AI does not "understand" the information it holds, nor does
it have a concept of "truth".

So it's like a CEO. Good to know.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 6:13 PM Joel C. Ewing  wrote:

> One needs to understand that today's Large Language Model AI tools like
> ChatGPT, etc. are essentially driven by huge statistical databases
> created from processing huge volumes of digital text using some
> knowledge of sentence structure and words. Those tools can accept
> English-language queries and use words and phrases in the query to
> generate related-information responses with complete sentences and
> paragraphs that have a high probability of of being relevant to the query.
>
> Current AI does not "understand" the information it holds, nor does it
> have a concept of "truth".   Even if you program the AI using books on
> COBOL grammar and semantics it won't "understand" COBOL.   Even if you
> feed it millions of lines of COBOL code it won't be able to deduce the
> underlying purpose of the code.  If there is an accurate description of
> what the code does accompanying the code, it can associate that
> description with a code segment; but if the description is inaccurate,
> AI may also associate the code with that bad description.   Inevitably
> some of the code you might use to program the AI tool will contain bugs,
> and AI will be equally content to supply buggy code examples.
>
> If your object is to generate optimized Assembler code which accurately
> replicates the behavior of a COBOL program, the best tool for that for
> the foreseeable future is an optimizing COBOL compiler for your target
> machine.  Such compilers are already doing flow analysis just to
> optimize loops and register usage, but I wouldn't call that "AI" in the
> usual sense of that term. Perhaps a well-programmed AI tool would
> suggest using a COBOL compiler if asked to convert a COBOL program to
> assembler -- in fact that is basically the response given by the MS
> Copilot tool when asked to perform that task for z-architecture;
> although you can see hints of its lack of understanding in that in
> includes in its response "IBM provides cataloged procedures (such
> as*IEBCOMPR*and*IEBCOPY*) to simplify JCL coding for COBOL compilation",
> where it includes gratuitous PROC examples that have nothing to do with
> COBOL rather than giving the names of actual COBOL compiler PROCs.
>
>  Joel C. Ewing
>
> On 2/22/24 11:09, Robley Lutz wrote:
> > I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
> > simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
> > code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I
> never
> > became?
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
> > 05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Dave,
> >>
> >> I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
> >> CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
> >> EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.
> >>
> >> ...
>
> --
> Joel C. Ewing
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Joel C. Ewing]

One needs to understand that today's Large Language Model AI tools like 
ChatGPT, etc. are essentially driven by huge statistical databases 
created from processing huge volumes of digital text using some 
knowledge of sentence structure and words. Those tools can accept 
English-language queries and use words and phrases in the query to 
generate related-information responses with complete sentences and 
paragraphs that have a high probability of of being relevant to the query.


Current AI does not "understand" the information it holds, nor does it 
have a concept of "truth".   Even if you program the AI using books on 
COBOL grammar and semantics it won't "understand" COBOL.   Even if you 
feed it millions of lines of COBOL code it won't be able to deduce the 
underlying purpose of the code.  If there is an accurate description of 
what the code does accompanying the code, it can associate that 
description with a code segment; but if the description is inaccurate, 
AI may also associate the code with that bad description.   Inevitably  
some of the code you might use to program the AI tool will contain bugs, 
and AI will be equally content to supply buggy code examples.


If your object is to generate optimized Assembler code which accurately 
replicates the behavior of a COBOL program, the best tool for that for 
the foreseeable future is an optimizing COBOL compiler for your target 
machine.  Such compilers are already doing flow analysis just to 
optimize loops and register usage, but I wouldn't call that "AI" in the 
usual sense of that term. Perhaps a well-programmed AI tool would 
suggest using a COBOL compiler if asked to convert a COBOL program to 
assembler -- in fact that is basically the response given by the MS 
Copilot tool when asked to perform that task for z-architecture; 
although you can see hints of its lack of understanding in that in 
includes in its response "IBM provides cataloged procedures (such 
as*IEBCOMPR*and*IEBCOPY*) to simplify JCL coding for COBOL compilation", 
where it includes gratuitous PROC examples that have nothing to do with 
COBOL rather than giving the names of actual COBOL compiler PROCs.


    Joel C. Ewing

On 2/22/24 11:09, Robley Lutz wrote:

I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I never
became?

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.

...


--
Joel C. Ewing

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Bob Bridges]

Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the 
Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.  
-Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left. 
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw]

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left. 
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Classification: Confidential

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them 
> for jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://www/.
> linkedin.com%2Fadvice%2F0%2Fhow-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-ski
> lls-system-development-x9cve=05%7C02%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C
> cc68e10c66f6488fb04408dc33c94dc1%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C
> 0%7C0%7C638442186902794249%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=3tT
> lvB8EH2KJyndo7QBf0U7KKjNBcexrXzghUxXy%2F5Q%3D=0
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle < 
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
&g

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them
> for jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://www/.
> linkedin.com%2Fadvice%2F0%2Fhow-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-ski
> lls-system-development-x9cve=05%7C02%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C
> cc68e10c66f6488fb04408dc33c94dc1%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C
> 0%7C0%7C638442186902794249%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=3tT
> lvB8EH2KJyndo7QBf0U7KKjNBcexrXzghUxXy%2F5Q%3D=0
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22
>> billion in the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Steve Thompson]

Right now there is a move within the US Fed Gov't to convert ALC 
to Java.


They need ALC programmers that know the old style programming 
because some of this code predates MVS/XA.


Just say'n'.

Steve Thompson

On 2/22/2024 12:29 PM, Dave Beagle wrote:

I don’t deny there will be assembler code running. It’s just that you won’t 
need assembler programmers. It’s been shrinking for decades as a needed 
skillset. Explains why hardly anyone teaches it and why assembler coding jobs 
are few. Also explains why the Assembler listserv is almost dead. Ray Mullins, 
many of whom would consider an expert agrees with me. Called it a niche skill.

To deny the fact that companies are spending large amounts of time and money on 
AI is certainly a fools proposition. Literally, every IT company on the planet 
is falling over themselves to get a piece of that pie. Those who aren’t are 
going to have a hard time surviving. Even non IT companies can see a huge 
benefit and payoff from it. This will be the most important IT venture to date.


People who want it to solve complex problems while AI is in its infancy, aren’t 
thinking straight. AI is going to change everything in the next decade or so. 
Anyone who is wondering what skills will be highly paid in the next 20 years, 
I’ll guarantee AI will be near the top.



Plus, I’ve coded in numerous languages since 1980. Done just about everything 
in IT. Was right about the mainframe being around for decades to come circa 
1995 as many here kept saying the mainframe was dead.

Dave


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 11:54 AM, Tom Harper 
<05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
<0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
<05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

I don’t deny there will be assembler code running. It’s just that you won’t 
need assembler programmers. It’s been shrinking for decades as a needed 
skillset. Explains why hardly anyone teaches it and why assembler coding jobs 
are few. Also explains why the Assembler listserv is almost dead. Ray Mullins, 
many of whom would consider an expert agrees with me. Called it a niche skill.

To deny the fact that companies are spending large amounts of time and money on 
AI is certainly a fools proposition. Literally, every IT company on the planet 
is falling over themselves to get a piece of that pie. Those who aren’t are 
going to have a hard time surviving. Even non IT companies can see a huge 
benefit and payoff from it. This will be the most important IT venture to date.


People who want it to solve complex problems while AI is in its infancy, aren’t 
thinking straight. AI is going to change everything in the next decade or so. 
Anyone who is wondering what skills will be highly paid in the next 20 years, 
I’ll guarantee AI will be near the top.



Plus, I’ve coded in numerous languages since 1980. Done just about everything 
in IT. Was right about the mainframe being around for decades to come circa 
1995 as many here kept saying the mainframe was dead.

Dave


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 11:54 AM, Tom Harper 
<05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job. 

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history. 

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think. 

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.  

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted. 

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance. 

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance. 

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function. 

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language. 

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960. 

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future. 

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper 

Phoenix Software International 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> AI?
> 
> More AS!
> 
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> 
> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>> 
> 
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
>> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
>> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
>> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
>> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
>> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
>> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
>> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
>> 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

"Ownership considered harmful:

Yes, you should accept responsibility for defects (not just bugs) in your work, 
but you should not consider it to be your turf and be hostile to those who 
improve it. If someone finds a bug in my code, i am and should be grateful. I 
might use a different fix from what they provided, but then again, I might not."

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Robert Prins <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 12:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in the world by
> market cap. (Behind Microsoft & Apple) To think AI is just a passing fad is
> foolish.
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


--
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/14iGWxJaqsbYiPwXLtM8f1bA0qLxRkkn6wCZZpAejX_EW8Bl0rXwy6HIuNWW1AKWLzjBhJ0rQ6MkfqL3v94WCi7ocDruMf1sWekXEKZdjX4dxfCCCrS9o4i8cCY6WSbRkzSmSVXi7ms3W0p15tDJEI1YXqLjZ2qipin2muU5SQ1-2Es5NDB9G8qwaK2zc0nt9M7sx41DrmiZYI3ntekJ5EOIouAvq5CfG1nlCbgPognoafD3FAIxIiE6L8WDEMaU3YoftP9fo5rOTkxdrQLV-pOqjYBsS4IlCjw7KE-I_Bm5Z7gnXO2uOXIp2zp_ZPGwMe2EzsWgjgVQELN8oQz0sWWXRz77OE1apcOQVv1yh2cDXwbHbzlSCzKJZs30THpWKFBb4UfRetPpJ0brezPr65okoA0MqhwGuDQxpUEZBouo/https%3A%2F%2Fprino.neocities.org%2Findex.html>
Some REXX code for use on z/OS
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1KGTuJL5FNk7Ol00-RSImmFxCzyrNaAvQIKFtAfOlNdQNAwInzZeiM9vc1JS2phc2tM2veAavej8BKY_OXU3aGcvQzjTbi6hqzIPPXH5sCgWnR1Ibds0hb9vp-qaVTkXQWN1uQwHvxzLZjLKtXTt0haTS3Ny-x-BKb1crR4LlDZVzW2uwZF9RAZX01BruvzZYW9hbrfHXDwbX0SquWpnPo4KZN6zHSYAVRy10DhHqPOPk1M0QyIrI8VHNAoyugyU3pHKuJOoqm-83m9Kt3WPRGFPuTpBsy5nCSfXfAHMl4kwu7WKEVm1JlenhdQS5S4WeIsCIzfOwc2C5UQGTeSXtmMfo9LiJ1IE3N2tdOo4a41tdMzeodGrJ7kZjFJ96VnR4OLGZwrXYjGlDVQpTndNs3tt5stM1WDa1A1EP6NperpQ/https%3A%2F%2Fprino.neocities.org%2FzOS%2FzOS-Tools.html>

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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Pommier, Rex]

I can think of one guy who probably wishes a few more 5 year predictions would 
have been forgotten.  Stewart Alsop and his infamous 1991 prediction "I predict 
that the last mainframe will be unplugged on March 15, 1996".

oops

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!sFC-mjDAKaitFM9IEYw4ZOP8uKU9vq50VIYYHq7QWJoDB9QKgOmsB_xLkcXGfUXtjbbOfYuQldVgKza5Mw$
 >.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!sFC-mjDAKaitFM9IEYw4ZOP8uKU9vq50VIYYHq7QWJoDB9QKgOmsB_xLkcXGfUXtjbbOfYuQldUa1eC9wA$
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them 
> for jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-
> developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve__;!!KjM
> RP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!sFC-mjDAKaitFM9IEYw4ZOP8uKU9vq50VIYYHq7QWJoDB9QKgOmsB_xL
> kcXGfUXtjbbOfYuQldVStGcE7g$
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle < 
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t 
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 
>> billion in the latest

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

No, but we might see AI look at problem specifications and generate machine 
code that is hard to express in COBOL.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Robley Lutz <05c088572ccb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 12:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I never
became?

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
> CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
> EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.
>
> Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.
>
> The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has
> more nuances than you might think.
>
> As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What
> that means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom
> written in a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.
>
> A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of
> all processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is
> far lower, in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being
> sorted.
>
> The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at
> SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and
> related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this
> instance.
>
> The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software
> International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved
> performance.
>
> Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for
> a tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few
> instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.
>
> Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand
> that it was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor
> than develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and
> went to software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever
> piece of software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so
> they might get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.
>
> I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.
>
> Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable
> future.
>
> So I would revisit your thoughts.
>
> Tom Harper
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle <
> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins <
> 05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > AI?
> >
> > More AS!
> >
> > This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> > jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> >
> > <
> >
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
> >>
> >
> >> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
> >> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> >> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> >> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion
> in
> >> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which
> should
> >> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years
> ago,
> >> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> >> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> >> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> >> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> >> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
&

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
>> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
>> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
>> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
>> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
>> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
>> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
>> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
>> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
recei

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Robley Lutz]

I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I never
became?

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
> CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
> EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.
>
> Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.
>
> The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has
> more nuances than you might think.
>
> As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What
> that means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom
> written in a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.
>
> A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of
> all processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is
> far lower, in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being
> sorted.
>
> The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at
> SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and
> related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this
> instance.
>
> The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software
> International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved
> performance.
>
> Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for
> a tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few
> instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.
>
> Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand
> that it was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor
> than develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and
> went to software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever
> piece of software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so
> they might get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.
>
> I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.
>
> Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable
> future.
>
> So I would revisit your thoughts.
>
> Tom Harper
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle <
> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins <
> 05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > AI?
> >
> > More AS!
> >
> > This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> > jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> >
> > <
> >
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
> >>
> >
> >> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
> >> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> >> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> >> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion
> in
> >> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which
> should
> >> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years
> ago,
> >> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> >> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> >> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> >> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> >> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> >> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in
>
>
>
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
> message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
> email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
> free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system
> into
> 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Tom Harper]

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job. 

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history. 

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think. 

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.  

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted. 

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance. 

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance. 

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function. 

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language. 

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960. 

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future. 

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper 

Phoenix Software International 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> AI?
> 
> More AS!
> 
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> 
> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>> 
> 
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
>> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
>> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
>> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
>> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
>> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
>> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
>> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
>> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.

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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

On LinkedIn I searched for AI jobs and got 154,000 hits. I then searched for 
Assembler jobs and got 6478 hits. As a very smart person said, AI won’t replace 
workers, people who know AI will replace people who don’t.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 11:08 AM, Dave Beagle 
<0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
<05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in the world by
> market cap. (Behind Microsoft & Apple) To think AI is just a passing fad is
> foolish.
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
Some REXX code for use on z/OS


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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
<05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in the world by
> market cap. (Behind Microsoft & Apple) To think AI is just a passing fad is
> foolish.
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
Some REXX code for use on z/OS


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