Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I have not researched this issue for quite a while, but at one time we cut 
storage allocation to a bare minimum on LPARs that did not seem to need more. 
In a few cases to less than 1 GB. At that time storage cost a lot more than 
now, and nobody wanted to revisit the well to ask for more than we 
(justifiably) needed. Then we discovered that actual LPAR storage allocation 
was automatically incremented upward in the hardware to a boundary determined 
by factors we did not understand, but CPU model and actual amount of storage 
physically installed were factors. Queried IBM and learned that 'no man's land' 
storage was essentially wasted: not usable by this or any other LPAR. 

We no longer shave LPARs down to the bone, but I looked at a few that have odd 
values specified. (I didn't set the current values.) I see this for one of the 
few LPARs that have less than 8 GB specified:

IEE174I 11.07.56 DISPLAY M   FRAME LAST   F  E   SYS=xx  
REAL STORAGE STATUS  
ONLINE-NOT RECONFIGURABLE
0M-7168M 
ONLINE-RECONFIGURABLE
NONE 
PENDING OFFLINE  
NONE 
 0M IN OFFLINE STORAGE ELEMENT(S)
 1024M UNASSIGNED STORAGE  <==  
  
STORAGE INCREMENT SIZE IS 512M   

The key here is '1024M UNASSIGNED STORAGE'. As I understand it, this unassigned 
storage is not available to LPAR xx *nor to any other LPAR on this machine*.  
In other words, if you have storage installed, you might as well allocate it. 
Of course big time overallocation could increase system overhead. But as my 
kids' pediatrician used to say, you can't be too rich, too thin, or have too 
much real storage. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 12:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

No, AFAIK it doesn't work as you described.
Note: there are two things: CPU weight and memory.
CPU LPAR weight is really "adjusted" somehow, especially for low values 
specified by the user.
However memory is different animal. Here you have explicitly showed memory 
increments which depend on total (LPAR) memory. However the values are 
reasonably low to specify single-GB regions for LPAR and the values are 
honored. If you specify (during LPAR profile definition) something which is not 
multiple of increment, you'll get explicit warning with clear description.

How can one be sure the above is true? Math. Memory assigned to LPAR is also 
reported by z/OS with no "stolen chunks". Sum of LPAR memory regions give total 
memory available for user. HSA is fixed and not counted as user memory.


Regarding reason for using z/OS in low memory LPAR:
1. It works, especially with no workload (think sandbox, simple test, etc.) 2. 
If you are short on memory, you can assign more to prod LPAR. From the other 
hand it should be analyzed whether adding 4 or 5 Gigabytes to prod will cause 
significant change.

Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 2019-12-09 o 20:06, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:
> It's temping to be parsimonious and reduce storage allocation to a bare 
> minimum, but it can be a losing game. Regardless of how little storage you 
> specify in an LPAR profile, the hardware itself will adjust the 'effective 
> allocation' according to the CPU model. That is, the amount of storage 
> reserved to an LPAR will never be less than the h/w minimum. So if you 
> specify a fraction of the hardware increment, you will effectively lose any 
> remaining storage in that range. It cannot be used by any LPAR.
>
> So you might as well as specify any storage remaining in the increment. It 
> will cost you nothing.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Jousma, David
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 8:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL
>
> I'm pretty sure I've heard it mentioned that Bill Gates said "Who could ever 
> need more than 640K of RAM?"   Haha, how times have changed.
>
> 

Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[R.S.]

No, AFAIK it doesn't work as you described.
Note: there are two things: CPU weight and memory.
CPU LPAR weight is really "adjusted" somehow, especially for low values 
specified by the user.
However memory is different animal. Here you have explicitly showed 
memory increments which depend on total (LPAR) memory. However the 
values are reasonably low to specify single-GB regions for LPAR and the 
values are honored. If you specify (during LPAR profile definition) 
something which is not multiple of increment, you'll get explicit 
warning with clear description.


How can one be sure the above is true? Math. Memory assigned to LPAR is 
also reported by z/OS with no "stolen chunks". Sum of LPAR memory 
regions give total memory available for user. HSA is fixed and not 
counted as user memory.



Regarding reason for using z/OS in low memory LPAR:
1. It works, especially with no workload (think sandbox, simple test, etc.)
2. If you are short on memory, you can assign more to prod LPAR. From 
the other hand it should be analyzed whether adding 4 or 5 Gigabytes to 
prod will cause significant change.


Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 2019-12-09 o 20:06, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:

It's temping to be parsimonious and reduce storage allocation to a bare 
minimum, but it can be a losing game. Regardless of how little storage you 
specify in an LPAR profile, the hardware itself will adjust the 'effective 
allocation' according to the CPU model. That is, the amount of storage reserved 
to an LPAR will never be less than the h/w minimum. So if you specify a 
fraction of the hardware increment, you will effectively lose any remaining 
storage in that range. It cannot be used by any LPAR.

So you might as well as specify any storage remaining in the increment. It will 
cost you nothing.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jousma, David
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 8:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

I'm pretty sure I've heard it mentioned that Bill Gates said "Who could ever need 
more than 640K of RAM?"   Haha, how times have changed.

_
Dave Jousma
AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering

Fifth Third Bank  |  1830 East Paris Ave, SE  |  MD RSCB2H  |  Grand Rapids, MI 
49546
616.653.8429  |  fax: 616.653.2717


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

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W dniu 2019-12-09 o 15:56, Burgess, Otto A. pisze:

Good to know, thanks

Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need
to be

Well, not so long ago we discussed whether 1GB is really good choice for 
sandbox z/OS system. The other options were 512MB and .75GB.
Later we increased 1GB to 2GB.
Nowadays I have 16GB ...in my PC, which is old and my new PC waiting for use 
have 32GB. I didn't order anything special, just regular PC.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland



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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

It's temping to be parsimonious and reduce storage allocation to a bare 
minimum, but it can be a losing game. Regardless of how little storage you 
specify in an LPAR profile, the hardware itself will adjust the 'effective 
allocation' according to the CPU model. That is, the amount of storage reserved 
to an LPAR will never be less than the h/w minimum. So if you specify a 
fraction of the hardware increment, you will effectively lose any remaining 
storage in that range. It cannot be used by any LPAR. 

So you might as well as specify any storage remaining in the increment. It will 
cost you nothing. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jousma, David
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 8:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

I'm pretty sure I've heard it mentioned that Bill Gates said "Who could ever 
need more than 640K of RAM?"   Haha, how times have changed.

_
Dave Jousma
AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering  

Fifth Third Bank  |  1830 East Paris Ave, SE  |  MD RSCB2H  |  Grand Rapids, MI 
49546
616.653.8429  |  fax: 616.653.2717


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

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W dniu 2019-12-09 o 15:56, Burgess, Otto A. pisze:
> Good to know, thanks
>
> Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need 
> to be

Well, not so long ago we discussed whether 1GB is really good choice for 
sandbox z/OS system. The other options were 512MB and .75GB.
Later we increased 1GB to 2GB.
Nowadays I have 16GB ...in my PC, which is old and my new PC waiting for use 
have 32GB. I didn't order anything special, just regular PC.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Jousma, David]

I'm pretty sure I've heard it mentioned that Bill Gates said "Who could ever 
need more than 640K of RAM?"   Haha, how times have changed.

_
Dave Jousma
AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering  

Fifth Third Bank  |  1830 East Paris Ave, SE  |  MD RSCB2H  |  Grand Rapids, MI 
49546
616.653.8429  |  fax: 616.653.2717


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

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W dniu 2019-12-09 o 15:56, Burgess, Otto A. pisze:
> Good to know, thanks
>
> Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need 
> to be

Well, not so long ago we discussed whether 1GB is really good choice for 
sandbox z/OS system. The other options were 512MB and .75GB.
Later we increased 1GB to 2GB.
Nowadays I have 16GB ...in my PC, which is old and my new PC waiting for use 
have 32GB. I didn't order anything special, just regular PC.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==

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NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
01.01.2019 r. wynosi 169.347.928 złotych.

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City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[R.S.]

W dniu 2019-12-09 o 15:56, Burgess, Otto A. pisze:

Good to know, thanks

Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need to be


Well, not so long ago we discussed whether 1GB is really good choice for 
sandbox z/OS system. The other options were 512MB and .75GB.

Later we increased 1GB to 2GB.
Nowadays I have 16GB ...in my PC, which is old and my new PC waiting for 
use have 32GB. I didn't order anything special, just regular PC.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==

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tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. 
Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
01.01.2019 r. wynosi 169.347.928 złotych.

If you are not the addressee of this message:

- let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!),
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Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital 
City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
169.347.928 as at 1 January 2019.

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Burgess, Otto A.]

Good to know, thanks

Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need to be


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

I have successfully IPLed z/OS 2.3 in a 4GB region using zPDT.

Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd
Web:  www.rsmpartners.com
'Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.'

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 05 December 2019 14:51
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

  *   For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14(tm) (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL.

Does this statement only apply only to the z14 or all models *after* it?  For 
example, the z14_ZR1 and the z15?

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Steve Partlow]

Correct, this requirement applies only to z/OS v2.3 and above (e.g. also v2.4) 
when running on z14 and later (e.g. also the ZR1 and z15). The only enforcement 
is the new WTOR during IPL:
IAR057D LESS THAN 8 GB OF REAL STORAGE IMPACTS SYSTEM AVAILABILITY - ADD 
STORAGE OR REPLY C TO CONTINUE

So if you are on a z13 there is no requirement or WTOR. Likewise if you are 
running v2.2 on any hardware. For z/OS on zPDT and zVM there is the requirement 
but it's just a smaller amount of 2GB. zPDT isn't actually running on z14 but 
if it emulates one, then z/OS checks for the requirement.

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw]

I have successfully IPLed z/OS 2.3 in a 4GB region using zPDT.

Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd  
Web:  www.rsmpartners.com
'Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.'

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 05 December 2019 14:51
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

  *   For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14(tm) (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL.

Does this statement only apply only to the z14 or all models *after* it?  For 
example, the z14_ZR1 and the z15?

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Parwez Hamid]

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.e0zm100/BCP_zNext_Memory_Reqs_V2R3.htm


Ensure that enough real memory is installed - 
IBM
Description. For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14™ (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL. When running as a z/VM guest or on an IBM Z® 
Personal Development Tool (zPDT), a minimum of 2 GB is required for z/OS V2R3.
www.ibm.com
Applies to z/OS 2.3 or higher and All z14s/z15s. Doesn't really say what the 
'impact' will be if you don't have 8 GB.

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Richards, Robert B. <01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: 05 December 2019 14:50
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

  *   For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14(tm) (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL.

Does this statement only apply only to the z14 or all models *after* it?  For 
example, the z14_ZR1 and the z15?

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Mullen, Patrick]

We have z/OS 2.3 lpars running on z14_ZR1 machines without impact to 
availability in as little as 3 GB. We do of course see message:

IAR057D LESS THAN 8 GB OF REAL STORAGE IMPACTS SYSTEM AVAILABILITY - ADD 
STORAGE OR REPLY C TO CONTINUE

Automation replies C. These are not production workload lpars though. We plan 
to install sufficient additional storage when it is time to replace the 14s, or 
if 2.4 (or some maintenance on 2.3) enforces the requirement.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2019 8:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

I believe this is not currently a *requirement*.

My recollection is that a warning message will be issued @IPL, but the IPL will 
continue.
I have not heard of this being enforced at this time.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 8:51 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

  *   For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14(tm) (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL.

Does this statement only apply only to the z14 or all models *after* it?  For 
example, the z14_ZR1 and the z15?

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Allan Staller]

I believe this is not currently a *requirement*.

My recollection is that a warning message will be issued @IPL, but the IPL will 
continue.
I have not heard of this being enforced at this time.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 8:51 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

  *   For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14(tm) (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL.

Does this statement only apply only to the z14 or all models *after* it?  For 
example, the z14_ZR1 and the z15?

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

Related question: and does it not apply to a z13?

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 05 December 2019 15:51
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

  *   For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14(tm) (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL.

Does this statement only apply only to the z14 or all models *after* it?  For 
example, the z14_ZR1 and the z15?

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