el (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf
> of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:34 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Thanks.
Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe career.
Kees.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Seymour
even at 98.5% of one's mainframe
> career.
>
> Kees.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Misuse of
: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose
meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the iceberg.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.e
Who could have predicted that this thread would attract so much activity on
ibm-main of all places? ;-)
Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com
>
>
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access
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> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:47 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS
> ...)
>
>
of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Whatever..
But.
I think the word in the title should be 'hexadecimal' rather than
'hexadecimnal' .
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions
ssion List on behalf of
Charles Mills
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
"Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any hexadecimal
character" -- u
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Seymour J Metz
Sent: 05 December 2019 18:42
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO
PDS ...)
Or 12. or 9.
Bring back Stretch.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu
: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
It's true, "non-printable" begs the question of "what printer?" I have seen
character sets that included little 2-character "hex" glyphs that could
therefore "print" or represent any byte value. I work
of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
I pretty much stuck to the term byte for that reason. A byte is eight 1/0 bits.
A character starts to get off into cultural issues.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Not to mention that "character" is fuzzily defined. You might mean:
byte
character
glyph
grapheme
.all of which will vary per code page, encoding, etc
.phsiii (who
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Re:
I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in:
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSL
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
In my Venn diagram, there are (a.o.) alphanumeric and hexadecimal characters.
One is a subset of the other, so sometimes you can use only 'some' hexadecimal
characters, sometimes you can use 'all' hexadecimal characters / 'any'
hexadecimal character.
Since English
; From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Tom Marchant
> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:52 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec
Good that someone like it :-).
"Any hexadecimal character" is semantic nonsense (as many have said, one
way or another). Nevertheless, it's a more-or-less established idiom
meaning "any value"; and we know what they mean.
sas
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 3:39 AM Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM <
On 2019-12-04 23:37, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
It was at the beginning of the text you trimmed:
Re:
I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in:
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm
... The name can contain
: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
>"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word
>people are looking for.
I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has li
See my answer to Gil about Venn diagrams.
Kees.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Charles Mills
Sent: 04 December 2019 19:02
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS
words might not express exactly
what I mean.
Kees.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 04 December 2019 18:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 23:10:12 -0500, Gord Tomlin wrote:
>On 2019-12-04 22:13, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> ISTR that many releases ago the document cited explicitly forbade
>> DBCS characters so those would not have been considered "valid
>> hexadecimal". I no longer see the restriction; I doubt that
On 2019-12-04 22:13, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
ISTR that many releases ago the document cited explicitly forbade
DBCS characters so those would not have been considered "valid
hexadecimal". I no longer see the restriction; I doubt that it was
ever enforced.
What document is "the document"? I
Re:
I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in:
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm
... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ...
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 14:09:29 -0500, Gord Tomlin wrote:
>On
Not to mention that "character" is fuzzily defined. You might mean:
byte
character
glyph
grapheme
.all of which will vary per code page, encoding, etc
.phsiii (who was trying not to jump in here, but can't stand it)
s not so
precise as, say, alphanumeric.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was
Or, again, "any eight-bit value."
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of John Lock
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was R
, 2019 11:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote:
> The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to
> indicate that all 256 possible values in the byt
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
>From "any hexadecimal character" my first guess would be "any character in
the ranges 0 to 9 and A to F", with a further guess about whether it
accepts both upper and lower case.
No
IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 13:52 Tom Marchant <
000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to
> indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable.
The problem with that is “any hexadecimal character “
>From "any hexadecimal character" my first guess would be "any character in
the ranges 0 to 9 and A to F", with a further guess about whether it
accepts both upper and lower case.
Nothing else makes much sense to me :-)
Rupert
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019, 19:09 Gord Tomlin,
wrote:
> On 2019-12-04
" - John Wooden
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Tony Harminc
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 2:07 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 13:52,
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 13:52, Tom Marchant <
000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to
> indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable.
> It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal
On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote:
The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to
indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable.
Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16
or UTF-32) into the conversation.
--
Regards,
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
>"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the
>word people are looking for.
I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has little meaning.
Even if you mean "non-printable using a TN print train", for
example, that is
riginal Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:
&
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:
>Jeez Gil,
>
>There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'.
>Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can
>use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of
2019 17:15
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
>>How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name?
Bob,
Here is an example of Creating A Nonstandard member name in a PDS
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW
.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Mike Schwab
Sent: 03 December 2019 10:55
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
And if you use quotes, the dataset name is not cataloged and you must include
Jeez Gil,
There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'.
Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can
use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, if
you accept JCL errors).
Kees.
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019
Is StarTools also case insensitive?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Lionel B Dyck
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS
: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 9:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook
that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But this
one got to my In box somehow, and caught my
of confusion.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Steve Smith
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
PDS & PDSE pe
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
> This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive
> file system appear to be case insensitive.
Agreed! Make it an option in the utility if you wish. Heck, make folding the
default if you wish, but give @Gil and
12:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
That's the point. z/OS PDS(E) *does* already support mixed-case member names.
Silly for a utility to defeat their usage. If IBM found the capability useful
for SMP, certainly others might find the capability useful as well
.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Lionel B Dyck
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
While mixed case dataset names, mixed case member names
scussion List On Behalf Of
Charles Mills
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
> This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive
> file system appear to be case insensitive.
Agreed
UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:44:18 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote:
>I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook
>that move
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:44:18 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote:
>I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook
>that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But
>this one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it
>possible to
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, at 10:47, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as
> far as I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able,
> using PDS to create a member name with lower case.
SMP/E's various storage PDSs (eg the MTS) used
>>How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name?
Bob,
Here is an example of Creating A Nonstandard member name in a PDS
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/pdsnsam.htm
Thanks
Kolusu
PDS & PDSE per se have always supported any 8 bytes as member names with
the exception of x''. The name restrictions imposed by JCL, etc.
are their own thing, for their own reasons. Anyone capable of writing BPAM
code could use or abuse this however it suits them. As previously
no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
> Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM
> Sent: 03 December 2019 11:16
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook
that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But this
one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it possible to
have a lower-case character in a PDS member name?
And even
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
In JCL you can put any hexadecimal character in a dsname if you enter it
between quotes. Never tried it for PDS membernames, but I suppose it will work
too.
Kees.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
-Bradshaw
Sent: 03 December 2019 12:11
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
You can store non-standard member names in PDS datasets using STOW macros.
IBM used to do this in the forerunner of SMP/E called SMP. They used large PDSs
with member names that were unprintable hex
Dyck
Sent: 03 December 2019 10:48
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as far as I
know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, using PDS to create a
member name with lower case
y, December 2, 2019 7:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
>The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member
>names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
>The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member
>names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as
>well are case insensitive.
>
>Try it - you'll love it.
>
So if I have two
haracter than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 6:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:34:14 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
>The 1st thing you should do is to get the PDS command from File 182 on the
>CBTTape.org site.
>
>Then the copies would be this easy:
>
> pds large-pds copy a:f small-pds1 shr
> pds large-pds copy g:z small-pds-2 shr
>
>And that
Thanks John. It worked. Thanks to all who answered my post with their
suggestions.
On Monday, December 2, 2019, 05:36:29 p.m. UTC, John McKown
wrote:
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:47 AM willie bunter <
001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> I am tryin to copy a large
> I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to
> copy all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest
> of the members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this be done?
Willie,
If your shop has FILE-MANAGER then it is quite simple to copy using
MEMSTART and
The 1st thing you should do is to get the PDS command from File 182 on the
CBTTape.org site.
Then the copies would be this easy:
pds large-pds copy a:f small-pds1 shr
pds large-pds copy g:z small-pds-2 shr
And that is just one of the 100's (or 1,000's) of things you can do with
If TSO is an option for you:
3.3, then enter the dataset names only on the source and target panels,
and then, when on the panel where the members can be selected, do
S A*
S B*
S C*
S D*
S E*
S F*
that's it for the first part.
I agree: for the second part, it is not that easy ...
20 commands
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:47 AM willie bunter <
001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to copy
> all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest of the
> members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this
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