Re: Does being an RFC mean anything?

Spencer Dawkins wrote: The IETF is pretty clear that there are different kinds of RFCs, We even produced an RFC about it: Not All RFCs are Standards http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1796.txt d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: Last Call: draft-crocker-email-arch (Internet Mail Architecture) to Proposed Standard

For the content that overlaps in RFC5322 and RFC5321, which one is authoritative? d/ SM wrote: At 20:21 01-03-2009, Dave CROCKER wrote: As this draft is being considered as a Proposed Standard, will it be authoritative instead of RFC 5821/5322? This presumes that there are different

Re: Last Call: draft-crocker-email-arch (Internet Mail Architecture) to Proposed Standard

Dave Cridland wrote: On Mon Mar 2 15:49:09 2009, Dave CROCKER wrote: For the content that overlaps in RFC5322 and RFC5321, which one is authoritative? Whichever is cited by the document referencing the content, of course. That sounds pretty unstable, since it produces context-dependent

Re: Terminal room at IETF74

/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Internet Society joins Liberty Alliance Management Board: Why?

particular Trustees; it would be helpful to see that included in the list, to understand whether they are ex officio, elected by from a region, or the like. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org

Re: Internet Society joins Liberty Alliance Management Board: Why?

Brian E Carpenter wrote: Dave, On 2009-03-02 07:17, Dave CROCKER wrote: ... What is particularly interesting to me, about this line of comment, is not whether the relevant IETF-based technologies are superior or whether Can you point me to the IETF WG(s) that are considering identity

Re: Internet Society joins Liberty Alliance Management Board: Why?

be productive. Brian E Carpenter wrote: people I knew who are experts in the identity management area never thought that the IETF was relevant except as a source of atomic components. A significant -- and probably insightful -- assessment of the IETF... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg

Re: Last Call: draft-crocker-email-arch (Internet Mail Architecture) to Proposed Standard

of advising the community about security holes in email, more is definitely better. So I'd rather see this tidbit retained. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman

Re: Last Call: draft-crocker-email-arch (Internet Mail Architecture) to Proposed Standard

were published almost six months ago. They also contain some slight adjustments to terminology and this document should be carefully checked to be sure its terminology is still consistent with them. regards, john -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: Last Call: draft-crocker-email-arch (Internet Mail Architecture) to Proposed Standard

due to a definitional change, What is the superior reference you suggest be used? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Last Call: draft-crocker-email-arch (Internet Mail Architecture) to Proposed Standard

/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Comments requested on recent appeal to the IESG

the exchange under a different guise, at a minimum under an entirely independent thread? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Comments requested on recent appeal to the IESG

by section 3.4.3. This is the same confusion of venues as cited above. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org

Re: It's time for some new steps (was: [Welcome to the Ietf-honest mailing list])

. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Welcome to the IETF Honest list (now go home!)

Bernard Aboba wrote: To paraphrase Hamlet: sure hope we have a different ending... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

It's time for some new steps (was: [Welcome to the Ietf-honest mailing list])

will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list

Re: [Fwd: Last Call: draft-hoffman-dac-vbr (Vouch By Reference) to Proposed Standard]

SM wrote: At 06:55 04-02-2009, Dave CROCKER wrote: Macroeconomic analysis -- especially predictions about the directions an economic process will develop towards -- is a poorly understood topic of expertise, even among experts... as we are unfortunately seeing demonstrated in the global

Re: [Fwd: Last Call: draft-hoffman-dac-vbr (Vouch By Reference) to Proposed Standard]

. The reality of VBR is that it is almost entirely subject to social forces. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: [Fwd: Last Call: draft-hoffman-dac-vbr (Vouch By Reference) to Proposed Standard]

SM wrote: At 11:40 01-02-2009, Dave CROCKER wrote: 1. Macroeconomic effect from email filtering: Monopolistic pressures There wasn't any comments on the Last-Call about the implications to individual or small companies, particularly ones in small emerging market countries. It's

[Fwd: Last Call: draft-hoffman-dac-vbr (Vouch By Reference) to Proposed Standard]

is expected to be by all major developers of email sending and receiving software. It is equally expected that it will be deployed by 100% of the community providing professional email operations, both on the sending and the receiving sides. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The IETF Trustees invite your comments on ...

from people who are, in actual fact, acting as agents of the IETF. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The IETF Trustees invite your comments on ...

be solely for the purpose of acknowledging the IPR policy. d/ ps. I'm not commenting on the efficacy of doing this separate list, merely trying to be clear about its differential semantics. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf

Re: [mail-vet-discuss] -19 of draft-kucherawy-sender-auth-header

felt compelled to respond, I wish you note had ended here. There is no benefit in responding to material that is outside the scope of this effort, is not new and has no support. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf

Re: [Trustees] ANNOUNCEMENT: The IETF Trustees invite your review and comments on a proposed Work-Around to the Pre-5378 Problem

. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: [Trustees] ANNOUNCEMENT: The IETF Trustees invite your review and comments on a proposed Work-Around to the Pre-5378 Problem

the problem. Even assuming that the label is formally correct, it's clear that there is nothing brief about the transition nor minimal about the impact. Like most infrastructure changes, transition is a strategic, long-term concern. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking

Re: [Trustees] ANNOUNCEMENT: The IETF Trustees invite your review and comments on a proposed Work-Around to the Pre-5378 Problem

, remove the new requirement and we no longer have a crisis. We have an issue to pursue -- the same one that prompted the new requirement -- but no crisis. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf

Re: [Trustees] ANNOUNCEMENT: The IETF Trustees invite your reviewand comments on a proposed Work-Around to the Pre-5378 Problem

experience, over the years. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: [taugh.com-standards] Re: Review of draft-ietf-dkim-ssp-08

not sure it's all that helpful to explore this enhancement... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: [taugh.com-standards] Re: Review of draft-ietf-dkim-ssp-08

functionality. Failure to use a feature for that long makes a strong case for deprecating it. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

History of RFC copyright text

WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenarys

/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

Sanm, I believe it has already been observed by others that this is not a reasonable scenario. However your response does provide a good example of just how badly the latest model is broken. d/ Sam Hartman wrote: Dave == Dave CROCKER d...@dcrocker.net writes: Dave Joel M. Halpern

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

. To repeat: The idea that anyone would think it viable to have a potentially small -bis effort need to rewrite potentially large portions of the original text demonstrates just how stuck in the mire we are, with no clue how to get out. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

Joel M. Halpern wrote: Yes, having to get rights from folks is a pain. When the person is not longer available, the effect is more than discomfort. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

pretending to be a attorney, talking about copyright law. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

work for a successful company is used to, either. Especially when the effort was by folks working outside of their area of expertise. Whatever it is that produced the current situation, we should try to avoid repeating it. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

for a successful company is used to, either. Especially when the effort was by folks working outside of their area of expertise. Whatever it is that produced the current situation, we should try to avoid repeating it. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

it dates as far back as when we wrote that doc. But my real point is that it doesn't matter, in terms of what I, as an IETF participant, thought was the situation. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

Brian E Carpenter wrote: On 2008-12-18 11:32, Dave CROCKER wrote: My assumption was that the IETF owned the work. Pure and simple. False. You never implicitly transferred ownership. Yes I did. As I say, that was the culture. Scott didn't have to come to Erik or me and ask permission

Re: IPR Questions Raised by Sam Hartman at the IETF 73 Plenary

adding another layer of 'fix' to what was supposed, itself, to be an incremental fix. The odds that we will get that additional layer wrong are demonstrably high. We should, instead, re-invoke the previous rules, until we figure out how to make the correct changes. d/ -- Dave Crocker

Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address blacklists...

Theodore Tso wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 11:23:10AM -0800, Dave CROCKER wrote: Perhaps you can clarify the purpose of your note. How should it be incorporated into the IETF's deliberations? The point I was trying to make is that there seems to be an inherent assumption by some people

Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address blacklists...

for such a global conclusion about a mechanism that is implemented and relied on by virtually every professionally-run email receiving service on the planet. Thanks. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf

Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address blacklists...

changed. No matter the size of the home, things have changed. Environmental pressures are ignored only at one's serious risk. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman

Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address blacklists...

that the current Internet email architecture does not allow for this, I think you are confusing architecture with implementation. You need to talk with product vendors, not protocol architects. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address blacklists...

because the IPv6 path is being locally redirected. Tony ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf

Re: The internet architecture

for conformance to it -- could help more than a protocol improvement... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

DNS query reliability (was Re: The internet architecture)

that follows through with making actual DNS operation -- as opposed to attack or defense of the protocol -- provide the needed level of *end-to-end* reliability. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org

Re: The internet architecture

would make a huge difference, boy oh boy, we are certainly in agreement there... -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

sockets vs. fds

? Thanks. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: The internet architecture

transient, within-session naming, for merging data coming in from alternate paths, versus global, persistent naming, for initial rendez vous. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https

Re: sockets vs. fds

challenges. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: The internet architecture

Noel Chiappa wrote: What aspects of DNS semantics makes them inappropriate for this function? And therein lies what seems to be the challenge in most id/locator discussions: careful specification of the required characteristics for the ID. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg

Re: The internet architecture

for implementing, deploying and using, to compare against? It's always appealing and trivially easy to take an existing infrastructure and find fault with it when comparing to something no more concrete than an idea. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: The internet architecture

for the an organization's online web presence. That sort of description of the name is quite different from the mechanical and narrow simplicity of a host name or a synonym for a *set of* IP Addresses that might refer to a single machine or to multiple. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking

Re: Proposed DNSSEC Plenary Experiment for IETF 74

reality and necessary enhancements? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Proposed DNSSEC Plenary Experiment for IETF 74

of the mobile ones, such as WM7, Android, ...? A quick google for windows dnssec produces no useful points high in the sequence. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org

Re: [73all] Google, Open Source Android

___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman

Re: [73attendees] Is USA qualified for 2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

to maximize the ability of people to attend IETF meetings, by looking for venues where visa processing is the least problematic. That does not mean no visas or anything else simplistic, except that border controls do not impose undue and unpredictable barriers. d/ -- Dave Crocker

Re: [73attendees] Is USA qualified for 2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

, travel hassles that include government bureaucracy and social (dis)favor ought to be included, to the extent that we have evidence they affect attendance. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf

Re: [73attendees] Is USA qualified for 2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

the IETF to select ones that put some effort into being friendly about participation by people from a wider set of countries? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org

Re: uncooperative DNSBLs, was several messages

is unworthy of standardization is problematic. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: uncooperative DNSBLs, was several messages

Andrew Sullivan wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 08:18:01AM -0800, Dave CROCKER wrote: The difficulty is that the current line of argument is that because some DNSBLs are operated badly, DNSBLs are bad. I think that's not quite fair. My impression is that there is more than one line

Re: Comments on Draft IRTF ASRG DNSBL - 07

/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long)

the questions Eliot is asking and to post responses to them. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long)

? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Gen-ART review of draft-irtf-asrg-dnsbl-07

of scope for your review, can you summarize the nature of what was *in* scope? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long)

by those who will use the output. I suspect that the closer your responses are to text that should be in a charter, the more helpful it will be for justifying a working group. Thanks. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: Last Call: draft-irtf-asrg-dnsbl (DNS Blacklists and Whitelists)

for obtaining reputation data -- postivie or negative -- ought to mitigate against centralization. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Last Call: draft-irtf-asrg-dnsbl (DNS Blacklists and Whitelists)

the idea of the mechanism. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Last Call: draft-irtf-asrg-dnsbl (DNS Blacklists and Whitelists)

and very well-established practice among the broader Internet community? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Last Call: draft-irtf-asrg-dnsbl (DNS Blacklists and Whitelists)

experience. The last funny case is inside France Telecom (French largest ISP) where one mail server refused another one because it was blacklisted :-) That's a problem with administration and operation, not with specification of the format. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking

The purpose of a Last Call

the real and concrete submission of a specification that documents existing practice and, so far, a solid demonstration of support for it. So what is the purpose of encouraging individuals to lodge open-ended challenges? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: RFC 2026 interpretation question

that justified it. Like you, I would much rather have strategic changes pursued seriously and adopted constructively, but that wasn't your original question and I didn't intend to raise it. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: RFC 2026 interpretation question

is subject to some change. So that's when broader public exposure starts. I'd rather argue for as soon as the working group approves it, particularly for going from Draft to Full, but I can't think of logic that makes it compelling. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: Call for review of proposed IESG Statement on Examples

about what names/identifiers should be used in examples.. especially in normal, new document, cases. +10 d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: draft-crocker-rfc-media-00.txt (was: Re: Publishing RFCs in PDF Formal)

version of the draft. By the way, have I apologized for failing to post the diffs? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Call for review of proposed IESG Statement on Examples

Magnus Westerlund wrote: Dave CROCKER skrev: However, I am also quite concerned that we in the IETF are not receiving reports about any problems we are creating. If we are not receiving any reports, then any assertion that there is a problem is a theoretical exercise

Re: Call for review of proposed IESG Statement on Examples

requirements for documentation and publication. So... Fewer rules. More concepts and rationale. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Call for review of proposed IESG Statement on Examples

that an analysis like this will a) not require fine-grained rules to be documented, and b) will stand up against stray complaints. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo

Re: Call for review of proposed IESG Statement on Examples

director's dis-comfort. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: not the Gen-ART Review of draft-ietf-forces-mib-07

changes, rather than having them die the death of a thousand claimed imperfections. If the community truly wants changes, there will be changes. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https

Re: Gen-ART Review of draft-ietf-forces-mib-07

should make the required changes, before the document is passed to the RFC Editor. Give the RFC Editor a completely clean version. If it takes months, then that is a measure of the working group's motivation to get the document published... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg

Re: IESG Statement on Revised guidance for interim meetings

-making has much more opportunity to consider implications and recover from problematic choices. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IESG Statement on Revised guidance for interim meetings

. 8. Mindguards — self-appointed members who shield the group from dissenting information. Would that email discussion were enough to guard against these weaknesses. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing

Re: Removal of IETF patent disclosures?

for many reasons, including confirming what was historically relied on, having available information if a working group returns to an item, and other issues. Adding annotations, and organizing information for simplicity and clarity are fine. Removing information is not fine. +1 d/ -- Dave

Re: new text for ID_Checklist sect 3, item 6

/ ps. I guess this all settles the question about whether the Checklist mandates its own set of formal requirements on RFC content. This entire discussion is about something that is not mandated anywhere else. No other BCP, RFC, or RFC Editor document. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg

Re: Call for review of proposed update to ID-Checklist

Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] RFC 3979 says what is to be in an RFC, not what isn't. The Checklist says what isn't. The proble we saw in the IESG (when we started ID_Checklist) was that we saw A LOT OF I-Ds that requested

Re: Call for review of proposed update to ID-Checklist

Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] RFC 3979 says what is to be in an RFC, not what isn't. The Checklist says what isn't. The proble we saw in the IESG (when we started ID_Checklist) was that we saw A LOT OF I-Ds that requested

Re: Call for review of proposed update to ID-Checklist

statement. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Call for review of proposed update to ID-Checklist

says what isn't. And so on. Pls point out all the issues/concerns you have (if you want a personal email I did that: Each and every assertion that says or implies anything more than it can be helpful to do this needs to provide a narrow citation for its basis. d/ -- Dave Crocker

Re: Call for review of proposed update to ID-Checklist

that you perform the audit exercise partly because you are the one modifying the document and partly because you are friendly to the document's current form. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf

Re: Call for review of proposed update to ID-Checklist

an author know how to satisfy it. and also from that section: Specific IPR (e.g., patent claims terms) must not be in an RFC The must is interesting. What BCP documents this (entirely reasonable, IMO) requirement? And so on. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net

Re: Call for review of proposed update to ID-Checklist

make those consensus assessments. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Disappointing to not have plenary slides online for remote participants...

notice. Instant availability. No last-minute burden on IETF management or staff. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: IAB Open Microphone session on Thursday?

/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Draft IAOC Administrative Policy

? That is, should it specify a line of accountability? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Proposed Experiment: More Meeting Time on Friday for IETF 73

, they already do. They need even more? OK, give it to them. Even at the expense of other wgs... -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Proposed Experiment: More Meeting Time on Friday for IETF 73

like this, there needs to be a combination of assessment from management and assessment from participants. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings

Russ Housley wrote: Now that we have the tool, it is a reasonable time to see if we still need this cut-off rule. I have put the topic on the agenda for the IESG discussions in Dublin. I see this an opportunity for evolution and incremental improvement. Cool! Thanks. d/ -- Dave

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