At 7:03 AM -0500 2/11/05, Margaret Wasserman wrote:
Hi Dave,
snip
But, to a corporate lawyer, the word control doesn't seem to mean
all of the stuff that I listed in the first paragraph... All of
that stuff falls under the term management. Control of an
organization equates to ownership
Lynn - can you get the Skadden Arps lawyer to either defend or modify his
sentence?
It just looks too ungrammatical to escape comment and the RFC Editor is
sure to try to fix it too.
Harald
--On onsdag, februar 16, 2005 02:44:34 -0500 Rob Austein [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
At Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:59:20 -0500, Margaret Wasserman wrote:
According to my local dictionary, bestween isn't even a word. The
MS-Word copy that Lynn circulated uses the word between here, so
this is a typo in the ASCII diff.
I am doubtful that As between, the IETF, IASA and ISOC, the
Leslie,
Where in the body of the document does it say that the IAOC is independent
of ISOC. This could have been clarified but was not. I believe it needs to
be explicit.
bob
At 01:10 PM 2/14/2005, Leslie Daigle wrote:
Bob,
My point was that the abstract text should not be at odds with
the body
Leslie,
If the IAOC is intended to provide oversight of the activities and actions
of ISOC with respect to IETF related matters in the future, then the IAOC
will need to be independent of ISOC, otherwise the IAOC cannot be an
effective oversight body. You might as well have ISOC be directly
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:56:22 -0800, Ted Hardie wrote:
ISOC has proposed this:
This document describes the structure of the IETF Administrative
Support Activity (IASA) as an IETF-managed activity housed within the
Internet Society (ISOC).
to replace this:
This document describes
Hi Dave,
Sitting on both sides of this particular fence, I actually _don't_
think that we have a strategic disagreement about who would control
(using that term in it's normal English sense) this activity. The
document is very clear that the IETF makes the rules about how the
IASA will work
--On 11. februar 2005 07:03 -0500 Margaret Wasserman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, with my ISOC Board hat on (a hat which none of the ISOC Board members
are legally allowed to take off), I am not inclined to ignore legal
advice from ISOC's corporate counsel. Maybe the IETF Chair could ask the
For myself, I find the arguments on both sides of controlled
and managed to be compelling -- perhaps because I am not a
lawyer.
However, I am conscious that the words we write down are scrutinized
and used by people the world over -- not always to our benefit,
and often without any of the context
A couple other comments:
Fred Baker wrote:
ISOC proposes to replace this:
Within the constraints outlined above, all other details of how to
structure this activity within ISOC (whether as a cost center, a
department, or a formal subsidiary) shall be determined by ISOC in
--On 11. februar 2005 11:52 -0500 Leslie Daigle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
To try to minimize the change from the original edits, may I suggest
this:
Should the IETF standards process at some future date come to
include other technical activities, the IAOC is responsible for
Leslie,
this works for ISOC.
Lynn
At 11:15 AM -0500 2/11/05, Leslie Daigle wrote:
That makes the entire abstract:
This document describes the structure of the IETF Administrative Support
Activity (IASA) as an activity housed within the Internet Society
(ISOC). It defines the roles and
Hi Leslie -
For myself, I find the arguments on both sides of controlled
and managed to be compelling -- perhaps because I am not a
lawyer.
Finding both sides compelling makes you very qualified
to be a lawyer. ;)
snip
So, if the token really doesn't mean anything (per Jorge) because
At 11:15 AM -0500 2/11/05, Leslie Daigle wrote:
So, if the token really doesn't mean anything (per Jorge) because
the import is in the text of the document, perhaps the right
answer is to just *drop* that clause.
This document describes the structure of the IETF Administrative
Support Activity
So we checked with our lawyer. Unlike the IETF, which is always completely
smooth in its consensus and never finds experts differing in opinion, it
would appear that in the legal profession experts can differ in their opinions.
That said, he classed the issue as, in IETF terms, the difference
--On 9. februar 2005 21:27 +0200 Kai Henningsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Harald Tveit Alvestrand) wrote on 09.02.05 in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
!7. As bestween, the IETF, IASA and ISOC, the IETF, through the
IASA,
Huh?!
I can't parse that.
Lynn said
According to my local dictionary, bestween isn't even a word. The
MS-Word copy that Lynn circulated uses the word between here, so
this is a typo in the ASCII diff.
I am doubtful that As between, the IETF, IASA and ISOC, the IETF,
through IASA, shall have... is not standard grammar, legal or
At 10:56 10/02/2005, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
Lynn said that the ISOC lawyer said that this is standard legal grammar
for these are the parties whose relationship the next part of the
sentence describes.
I agree that it's not normal English.
Sorry, to interrupt your important
Jefsey,
I think you can take it as a given that the IETF will not be providing any
explicit input into the WGIG process. ISOC is an active participant in the
process, and many IETF participants are, but IETF the standards maker is
not.
Instead, the IETF will continue formulating standards that
Ted:
The suggestions ISOC made were pursuant to our lawyer's comments, so they
tend to have something to do with legalese. We are asking SkaddenArps to
reply to your note. But let me interject...
At 09:56 AM 02/09/05 -0800, Ted Hardie wrote:
Some comments, using Harald's diff as a starting
At 05:12 PM 02/10/05 -0800, Ted Hardie wrote:
I think the lawyer's desire for the word managed vs controlled is
seeking legal clarity in the terminology here. Managed is the usual
word for what the IAOC does in this context, and controlled isn't.
I agree that managed is what the IAOC does here.
--On torsdag, februar 10, 2005 17:56:42 -0800 Fred Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Are we in a position to post a -07 draft responsive to these issues? When
I see such, I am prepared to open a board ballot.
As soon as I've seen a couple of hours pass with all parties seeming to be
reasonably
As part of considering the changes proposed by ISOC, I integrated the
changes into the XML document and prepared an ASCII diff -c file, editing
it to remove the noise around changed line breaks.
This may be easier for the issue tracker to integrate than the
change-marked Word document or the
Some comments, using Harald's diff as a starting point.
ISOC has proposed this:
This document describes the structure of the IETF Administrative
Support Activity (IASA) as an IETF-managed activity housed within the
Internet Society (ISOC).
to replace this:
This document describes the structure
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Harald Tveit Alvestrand) wrote on 09.02.05 in [EMAIL
PROTECTED]:
!7. As bestween, the IETF, IASA and ISOC, the IETF, through the IASA,
Huh?!
I can't parse that.
MfG Kai
___
Ietf mailing list
25 matches
Mail list logo
