On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:03 PM, Keith Moore mo...@network-heretics.com wrote:
On 12/04/2012 12:50 PM, Steven Bellovin wrote:
I started making up really good slides (in a variety of settings)
after noticing non-native-English speakers at the IETF taking
pictures of the screen -- it
*really*
--On Wednesday, December 05, 2012 08:45 -0500 Steven Bellovin
s...@cs.columbia.edu wrote:
I used to see that also, but I don't recall seeing anyone do
that in Atlanta. Maybe people just download the slides now?
That's my assumption -- the infrastructure and policies are
better set up now
On 3 Dec 2012, at 18:11, Fred Baker (fred) f...@cisco.com wrote:
I agree with the notion that the primary purpose of the meeting is
discussion. What you and I tell those who present in v6ops is that we want
the presentation to guide and support a discussion, and anything that is pure
On 12/04/2012 08:29 AM, Tim Chown wrote:
Exactly. If the presentation is one slide listing the key changes in the
document since the last revision/meeting, and one slide per key question/issue being
asked of the room, then that should help facilitate good discussion, not hinder it.
What
On Dec 2, 2012, at 12:21 PM, John C Klensin john-i...@jck.com wrote:
--On Sunday, December 02, 2012 08:35 -0800 SM s...@resistor.net
wrote:
It is not about different dialects of English. There are
people in one part of the world who speak English. There are
people from other parts
On 12/3/2012 9:28 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
On 12/03/2012 08:57 AM, George, Wes wrote:
You have a very specific opinion of what an effective WG session
should be like and what people should and should not be doing to
facilitate such. Sounds like you need to work with the EDU team to
give a
-Original Message-
From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Keith Moore
Years ago, my impression was that that Sunday training sessions were
pretty much ignored
by anyone experienced in the organization. Is this still the case?
I've been to the
On 12/04/2012 12:50 PM, Steven Bellovin wrote:
I started making up really good slides (in a variety of settings)
after noticing non-native-English speakers at the IETF taking
pictures of the screen -- it*really* helped them.
I used to see that also, but I don't recall seeing anyone do that in
From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Melinda Shore
it's kind of weird that we cut off discussion so that we can proceed to the
next presentation. It's done all the time (I've done it, myself) and
while there's definitely a sense that we need to cover the
From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Keith Moore
A different toolset, (e.g. pens and paper
and overhead cameras coupled to projectors), would likely produce better
results if that toolset did not encourage laziness in preparing
materials to facilitate
On 12/03/2012 08:57 AM, George, Wes wrote:
From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Keith Moore
A different toolset, (e.g. pens and paper
and overhead cameras coupled to projectors), would likely produce better
results if that toolset did not encourage
From: Keith Moore [mailto:mo...@network-heretics.com]
Years ago, my impression was that that Sunday training sessions were
pretty much ignored by anyone experienced in the organization. Is this
still the case?
[WEG] Depends on the subject matter. If they're all targeted at new attendees,
On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:46 AM, joel jaeggli wrote:
We have non-native english speakers and remote participants both working at a
disadvantage to follow the discussion in the room. We should make it harder
for them by removing the pretext that the discussion is structured around
material
At 05:40 02-12-2012, Keith Moore wrote:
p.s. I certainly acknowledge the difficulty in understanding
different dialects of English. But it strikes me that part of the
problem is the high level of ambient noise
It is not about different dialects of English. There are people in
one part of
--On Sunday, December 02, 2012 08:35 -0800 SM s...@resistor.net
wrote:
It is not about different dialects of English. There are
people in one part of the world who speak English. There are
people from other parts of the world which do not understand
that English because of:
(a) The
But can be considerably aided in many cases by written material
(slides, summaries, or both) well in advance especially if those
material are also used at the meeting, thereby aiding
synchronization.
This is a very specific matter of technique.
As I started doing more presentations outside
On 12/02/2012 12:42 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
But can be considerably aided in many cases by written material
(slides, summaries, or both) well in advance especially if those
material are also used at the meeting, thereby aiding
synchronization.
This is a very specific matter of technique.
As
On 12/2/2012 9:51 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
I think you're missing the point. The core problem is the overuse of
presentations, and presentation tools, for working group face to face
meeting time which is better suited for discussion.
stop blaming the tool. focus on the folks doing the
On 12/02/2012 12:57 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
On 12/2/2012 9:51 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
I think you're missing the point. The core problem is the overuse of
presentations, and presentation tools, for working group face to face
meeting time which is better suited for discussion.
stop blaming
On 12/2/12 10:06 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
On 12/02/2012 12:57 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
On 12/2/2012 9:51 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
I think you're missing the point. The core problem is the overuse of
presentations, and presentation tools, for working group face to face
meeting time which is
On 12/02/2012 01:46 PM, joel jaeggli wrote:
We have non-native english speakers and remote participants both
working at a disadvantage to follow the discussion in the room. We
should make it harder for them by removing the pretext that the
discussion is structured around material that they can
Hi John,
At 09:21 02-12-2012, John C Klensin wrote:
(d) Their reading-English is much better than their spoken
English and they have trouble keeping up even if (b) is quite
moderate.
Yes.
But can be considerably aided in many cases by written material
(slides, summaries, or both) well in
On 12/2/12 11:15 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
On 12/02/2012 01:46 PM, joel jaeggli wrote:
We have non-native english speakers and remote participants both
working at a disadvantage to follow the discussion in the room. We
should make it harder for them by removing the pretext that the
discussion is
On 12/02/2012 03:57 PM, joel jaeggli wrote:
On 12/2/12 11:15 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
On 12/02/2012 01:46 PM, joel jaeggli wrote:
We have non-native english speakers and remote participants both
working at a disadvantage to follow the discussion in the room. We
should make it harder for them by
On 12/2/12 19:02 , Keith Moore wrote:\
I saw very little productive discussion happening in Atlanta in the vast
majority of working group meetings which I attended. True, there were
times when people queued up at the microphones. (though that's actually
a pretty inefficient way to have a
I'm unclear on how we'd carry on a discussion without a floor management
discipline.
i know it's a leap, but maybe presume people are adults
On 12/02/2012 10:49 PM, Joel jaeggli wrote:
On 12/2/12 19:02 , Keith Moore wrote:\
I saw very little productive discussion happening in Atlanta in the vast
majority of working group meetings which I attended. True, there were
times when people queued up at the microphones. (though that's
On 12/2/12 19:52 , Randy Bush wrote:
I'm unclear on how we'd carry on a discussion without a floor management
discipline.
i know it's a leap, but maybe presume people are adults
and that everyone of them has a microphone
I'm unclear on how we'd carry on a discussion without a floor
management discipline.
i know it's a leap, but maybe presume people are adults
and that everyone of them has a microphone
so we build our meetings around the fears, will someone speak
unacceptably, will someone appeal, will someone
On 12/2/12 8:08 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
I'm unclear on how we'd carry on a discussion without a floor
management discipline.
i know it's a leap, but maybe presume people are adults
and that everyone of them has a microphone
so we build our meetings around the fears, will someone speak
On 12/2/2012 8:08 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
I'm unclear on how we'd carry on a discussion without a floor
management discipline.
...
people are adults
...
...there is a high road, let's
take it.
A series of glib catch-phrases are certain not to facilitate meaningful
discussion, any more
On 12/2/12 7:54 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
Microphones introduce a consideration to the process, but then so does
the 'presence' of remote participants. It's not that difficult to
manage the room productively given these realities. Chairs do it all
the time.
This is off the topic at hand but I
32 matches
Mail list logo
