Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-18 Thread John Levine
So, is it better to put in a sentence about representing non-ASCII text in the group name without including a replyable address? The main motivation is to provide a syntax for a non-replyable address in From: and Sender: headers for cases where that is appropriate. See the EAI downgrade

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-18 Thread Barry Leiba
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: I see no way to explain the narrow EAI use case in this context without either dragging in a whole bunch of EAI that has no business being here or leaving various things dangling. ack. mumble. So I'll suggest a bit of an

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-18 Thread Dave Crocker
small tweaks: On 10/18/2012 3:28 AM, John Levine wrote: So, is it better to put in a sentence about representing non-ASCII text in the group name without including a replyable address? The main motivation is to provide a syntax for a non-replyable address in From: and Sender: headers for

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-18 Thread John C Klensin
--On Thursday, October 18, 2012 07:13 -0400 Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: I see no way to explain the narrow EAI use case in this context without either dragging in a whole bunch of EAI that has no business

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-18 Thread Dave Crocker
On 10/18/2012 6:45 AM, John C Klensin wrote: As I said earlier, I can live with almost anything if it is correct and allows us to move forward. I am, however, getting more concerned about the consequences to the virtual 5322bis and its future instantiation if we go down these paths. I would

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-18 Thread Bill McQuillan
On Thu, 2012-10-18, John C Klensin wrote: snip As I said earlier, I can live with almost anything if it is correct and allows us to move forward. I am, however, getting more concerned about the consequences to the virtual 5322bis and its future instantiation if we go down these paths. I

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-18 Thread Dave Crocker
I have wondered about that limitation for at least 15 years. I have come up with possible explanations but without a shred of evidence from the RFCs. FWIW, The construct of group is pretty much an assertion of an aggregate identity. That is, an identity beyond that of the listed

Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread Roni Even
I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq. Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments you may receive. Document: draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread ned+ietf
Minor issues: 1.It is not clear from the draft what the use case for using the group construct is. Section 3 talks about the issues with using the group construct and recommend limited use, but this is the only information. The main driver for this work is to add support for EAI

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread Dave Crocker
On 10/17/2012 10:49 AM, ned+i...@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: Minor issues: 1. It is not clear from the draft what the use case for using the group construct is. Section 3 talks about the issues with using the group construct and recommend limited use, but this is the only information.

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread ned+ietf
On 10/17/2012 10:49 AM, ned+i...@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: Minor issues: 1. It is not clear from the draft what the use case for using the group construct is. Section 3 talks about the issues with using the group construct and recommend limited use, but this is the only information.

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread John C Klensin
--On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:00 -0700 ned+i...@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: A single sentence summarizing what benefit is achieved with the change, along with a couple of usage examples, would go a long way towards showing how this update helps in practical ways. I could live with a

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread Dave Crocker
On 10/17/2012 12:27 PM, John C Klensin wrote: --On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:00 -0700 ned+i...@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: A single sentence summarizing what benefit is achieved with the change, along with a couple of usage examples, would go a long way towards showing how this update

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread John C Klensin
--On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 13:26 -0700 Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: ... A single sentence summarizing what benefit is achieved with the change, along with a couple of usage examples, would go a long way towards showing how this update helps in practical ways. I could live

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread ned+ietf
--On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:00 -0700 ned+i...@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: A single sentence summarizing what benefit is achieved with the change, along with a couple of usage examples, would go a long way towards showing how this update helps in practical ways. I could live

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread Dave Crocker
On 10/17/2012 2:32 PM, Ned Freed wrote: Channeling my inner Maslow, I see the present text as best, an additional sentence or two as next best, a sentence and a cite to the downgrade doc next in line, and including actual EAI examples in this doc as the worst choice. The problem I have with

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread Barry Leiba
Channeling my inner Maslow, I see the present text as best, an additional sentence or two as next best, a sentence and a cite to the downgrade doc next in line, and including actual EAI examples in this doc as the worst choice. The problem I have with the current text is that it says 'what'

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread ned+ietf
On 10/17/2012 2:32 PM, Ned Freed wrote: Channeling my inner Maslow, I see the present text as best, an additional sentence or two as next best, a sentence and a cite to the downgrade doc next in line, and including actual EAI examples in this doc as the worst choice. The problem I have

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread Dave Crocker
On 10/17/2012 5:18 PM, Ned Freed wrote: If you really think this is important to explain why we're making this change against the overall context of RFC 5322 - and I most certainly do not agree that it is important to do so - then the best use case to add is the negative one: The elimination

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-leiba-5322upd-from-group-06

2012-10-17 Thread ned+ietf
Channeling my inner Maslow, I see the present text as best, an additional sentence or two as next best, a sentence and a cite to the downgrade doc next in line, and including actual EAI examples in this doc as the worst choice. The problem I have with the current text is that it says