-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Fred Baker
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 6:53 PM
To: Andy Bierman
Cc: Working Group Chairs; IAB; IETF Discussion; IAOC; Ray Pelletier;
Dave Crocker
Subject: Re: [IAOC] IETF 72 -- Dublin!
On Feb 6, 2008, at 9:15 AM
Hi Ray,
I don't want to prolong this thread much more, but the booking terms
conditions at the City West are unusually strict, if not incorrect (note
the reference to the groups/conferences).
Here's what I get when using the IETF booking code:
---snip---
Please note the following terms
Dan Harkins wrote:
Please. A ghetto is a homogeneous region for some sort of homogeneity.
That could be ethnic but ghetto is not necessarily some slur against
poor people or people of some ethnic background. In this case the ghetto
is going to be golfers, most likely affluent ones, in their
Ray Pelletier wrote:
If you want to see Dublin, and I recommend it, consider arriving 2 - 3
days early, or staying after the meeting at a hotel downtown near
Grafton Street and Trinity College. The college even has dorm rooms
available at very reasonable rates, if you don't mind roughing
The Citywest Contract with IETF provides;
1. Room Rates - Single: 130 EUR: Double: 160 EUR; Breakfast, Internet
and taxes are included
2. Guest substitution permitted
3. Promotion Code: IETF
4. Guest Cancellation
Individuals can cancel the reservation without penalty until 3 days
prior to
I can confirm that the confirmation letter from the hotel does not
reflect the terms stated by Ray, but this is presumably just a
limitation of their automated system. For example, the letter says:
These rates are not available for groups or conferences, which
is exactly the opposite of what's
Is there an unwritten requirement that IETFs are placed to afford
us sightseeing?
Maybe we should add a pointer to the local things to see and do in
Ireland page to the Meetings page.
As an engineer, I would very much encourage people to stay an extra
day and tour NewGrange. Imagine the
Is there an unwritten requirement that IETFs are placed to afford
us sightseeing?
You mean this isn't the Individual Enlightenment and Travel Foundation
mailing list ... oh so sorry.
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:25 AM
To: David Kessens
Cc: 'IAOC'; IAB; 'IETF Discussion'; Richard Shockey
Subject: Re: IETF 72 -- Dublin!
David Kessens wrote:
PS anyways, maybe the local/Dublin restaurant scene is
really not what we
should be looking for in Ireland: should we not care more
On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:00:26PM -0500, David Harrington wrote:
I think the complaints would simply be slurred more, and we might have
to worry about lynch mobs (which would remind me of the reasonableness
of this discussion so far).
To be fair, I think most of the concerns raised on this
Ole,
I noticed the same thing when I was making my booking. As a precaution,
I put a note in the Comments block saying that I expect the terms of
the IETF contract to be followed, with a copy of the terms from Ray's email.
--RB
Ole Jacobsen wrote:
I can confirm that the confirmation
It strikes me that this discussion could use some of the same methods
that are promulgated in Moose Turd Pie
http://www.utahphillips.org/stuff/mooseturdpie.mp3: if a person
complains, they're required to take over the job.
On 2/8/08, Theodore Tso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at
On 8-Feb-2008, at 14:33, Richard Barnes wrote:
I noticed the same thing when I was making my booking. As a
precaution,
I put a note in the Comments block saying that I expect the terms of
the IETF contract to be followed, with a copy of the terms from
Ray's email.
Heh, and I thought I
On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, David Kessens wrote:
Most european cities are served by Aer Lingus and by Ryan Air which is
quite possible the cheapest airline on earth.
Ryanair and Aer Lingus are the amongst the worst airlines in Europe.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1206/airline.html
Tony.
--
On Feb 6, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Andy Bierman wrote:
However, there are obvious logistical concerns, especially at lunch
time. Is 90 minutes really enough time to bus into town, eat lunch,
and get back?
Lunch is always a problem. That's why we have a sandwich stand - to
diminish exactly
Fred Baker wrote:
On Feb 6, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Andy Bierman wrote:
However, there are obvious logistical concerns, especially at lunch
time. Is 90 minutes really enough time to bus into town, eat lunch,
and get back?
Lunch is always a problem. That's why we have a sandwich stand - to
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 02:27:13PM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote:
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 01:29:40PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote:
I really have a hard time being sympathetic to this complaint. If
the purpose of the IETF is open discussion and cross-pollination,
what does it matter where we
Dave,
Not wishing to speak for Ray, let me give some general observations:
1. IETF meetings require BOTH a suitable venue (meeting rooms) AND a
host organization.
2. The host organization have a large say in location (city)
selection, for a number of reasons. We are going to
Ray Pelletier wrote:
The venue will be the beautiful Citywest Hotel, Ireland’s premier
Conference, Leisure Golf Resort and one of Europe’s most popular
International Conference destinations. The four star Citywest Hotel is
only 20km from Dublin airport and 15km from Dublin City Centre.
Dave Crocker wrote:
Ray Pelletier wrote:
The venue will be the beautiful Citywest Hotel, Ireland’s premier
Conference, Leisure Golf Resort and one of Europe’s most popular
International Conference destinations. The four star Citywest Hotel is
only 20km from Dublin airport and 15km from
At 8:37 -0800 2/6/08, $someone wrote:
The descriptions of the venue make clear that, once again, the IETF is meeting
in a ghetto. Periodic bus service doesn't counteract that.
I really have a hard time being sympathetic to this complaint. If
the purpose of the IETF is open discussion and
On Feb 6, 2008 1:29 PM, Edward Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 8:37 -0800 2/6/08, $someone wrote:
The descriptions of the venue make clear that, once again, the IETF is
meeting
in a ghetto. Periodic bus service doesn't counteract that.
I really have a hard time being sympathetic to this
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 01:29:40PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote:
I really have a hard time being sympathetic to this complaint. If
the purpose of the IETF is open discussion and cross-pollination,
what does it matter where we are so long as there's comfortable
access to the expertise
Hi Edward,
On Wed, February 6, 2008 10:29 am, Edward Lewis wrote:
At 8:37 -0800 2/6/08, $someone wrote:
The descriptions of the venue make clear that, once again, the IETF is
meeting
in a ghetto. Periodic bus service doesn't counteract that.
I really have a hard time being sympathetic to
Ole Jacobsen wrote:
Dave,
Not wishing to speak for Ray, let me give some general observations:
1. IETF meetings require BOTH a suitable venue (meeting rooms) AND a
host organization.
Sorry, but it has been demonstrated that a host is not required.
It has further been demonstrated
I am still not convinced that there is a shortage of other places for
lunch.
Citywest (that the hotel is part of)
http://www.citywest.ie/
is a large business campus (including some companies that will be familiar
to IETF participants)
In their list of amenities it says that there is a choice
Dave,
(Reducing the CCs a bit)
On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Dave Crocker wrote:
Ole Jacobsen wrote:
Dave,
Not wishing to speak for Ray, let me give some general observations:
1. IETF meetings require BOTH a suitable venue (meeting rooms) AND a
host organization.
Sorry, but it has
While I agree with the sentiments of Ted and others[1], isn't this
all rather a moot point?
I would expect Ray has already signed a locked-in contract with the
hotel/resort in Dublin, correct?
Is there realistically any chance to change it?
If the Dublin venue can NOT be changed at this
On 6 feb 2008, at 17:57, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
1. IETF meetings require BOTH a suitable venue (meeting rooms) AND a
host organization.
I sometimes wonder how cheap and convenient IETF meetings would be if
the fee reflected just the meeting costs, the hotel room fees wouldn't
be used to
Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
I sometimes wonder how cheap and convenient IETF meetings would be if
the fee reflected just the meeting costs, the hotel room fees wouldn't
be used to subsidize the venue price and venue selection only
considered price and convenience for the IETF goers and
I wrote:
It's Ray's job to make the call. It's the IAOC's job to see that he
does his job well. I think Ray has at least earned the benefit of the
doubt. Perhaps this is best viewed retrospectively since contracts
are signed?
I am told the following by someone who should know:
On 6 feb 2008, at 21:53, Eliot Lear wrote:
I sometimes wonder how cheap and convenient IETF meetings would be
if the fee reflected just the meeting costs, the hotel room fees
wouldn't be used to subsidize the venue price and venue selection
only considered price and convenience for
It's Ray's job to make the call. It's the IAOC's job to see that he
does his job well. I think Ray has at least earned the benefit of the
doubt.
I don't think so ..given the perfectly rational questions that are being
asked about this particular sub-optimal site, the community has a
Dan York wrote:
While I agree with the sentiments of Ted and others[1], isn't this all
rather a moot point?
I would expect Ray has already signed a locked-in contract with the
hotel/resort in Dublin, correct?
Is there realistically any chance to change it?
So it's probably a good thing
BTW - I have no knowledge of the venue, I've never been to Ireland.
I'm reacting to seeing these complaints pile up over the years about
nearly everywhere we have been.
I remember staying in Rathcoole about 35 years ago. It was a lovely
rural place. I came back to stay there
Dave,
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 11:54:43AM -0800, Dave Crocker wrote:
Hence the question about priorities. Start with declaring Dublin the venue
and
it well might be true that this is the best venue. Start with a requirement
that the venue have ample resources within walking distance
Richard,
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 04:48:15PM -0500, Richard Shockey wrote:
Sites that are substantially distant from city centers or major
transportation hubs IMHO don't work for the IETF community irrespective of
whether they are in North America, Asia or ECMA.
While I don't particularly
Jaap Akkerhuis wrote:
[..]
And it seems the the resort is build
on the meadows used by the fairies.
Fairies hebben geen heibel gemaakt want de golf-velden daar liggen er
super mooi bij.
Er is ook een helicopter landplaats daar, wat wellicht een goede optie is :)
I'm afraid that the
David Kessens wrote:
Most european cities are served by Aer Lingus and by Ryan
Air which is quite possible the cheapest airline on earth.
Only because I happened to see this today:
Airline ordered to pay for booting band The Associated Press Article
Launched: 02/06/2008 07:08:27 AM PST
David Kessens wrote:
Maybe you should volunteer for a position on the IAOC if you believe
you can set these priorities better than the people who are
currently responsible for this job.
David,
Maybe a discussion about priorities should be a discussion about priorities
rather than being
: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM
To: Richard Shockey
Cc: 'IAB'; 'IETF Discussion'; 'IAOC'
Subject: Re: IETF 72 -- Dublin!
Richard,
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 04:48:15PM -0500, Richard Shockey wrote:
Sites that are substantially distant from city centers or major
The descriptions of the venue make clear that, once again, the IETF
is meeting in a ghetto. Periodic bus service doesn't counteract
that.
If you look at the Google map and satellite photos of the venue, there
appears to be quite a lot of residential and commercial development
just east of it.
Richard,
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 10:41:07PM -0500, Richard Shockey wrote:
My comment said or as in one or the other, if you had re read the comment
properly before going snarky. I don't dispute Dublin airport is a useful
transportation hub. I want to know why this particular venue was
David Kessens wrote:
PS anyways, maybe the local/Dublin restaurant scene is really not what we
should be looking for in Ireland: should we not care more
about the local brews ?
Open taps in each meeting room might, indeed, eliminate any complaints about
the
venue.
d/
--
Dave
, January 31, 2008 8:38 PM
To: Ray Pelletier
Cc: IETF Discussion
Subject: Re: IETF 72 -- Dublin!
On Jan 31, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Ray Pelletier wrote:
The venue will be the beautiful Citywest Hotel, Ireland’s premier
Conference, Leisure Golf Resort and one of Europe’s most popular
: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:38 PM
To: Ray Pelletier
Cc: IETF Discussion
Subject: Re: IETF 72 -- Dublin!
On Jan 31, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Ray Pelletier wrote:
The venue will be the beautiful Citywest Hotel, Ireland’s premier
Conference, Leisure Golf Resort and one of Europe’s most
As a result of incorrect data on the Citywest Hotel website there have
been some questions asked. Here is the correct information based upon
the contract with the hotel.
Ray Pelletier
IETF Administrative Director
Citywest Contract with IETF http://www.citywesthotel.com/site/index.aspx
1.
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Dean Willis wrote:
And no, I don't play golf, which appears to be the entire focus of
this sort of location.
This could be an opportunity to do something different. (Though I
agree that having the IETF on a location 15km from downtown could have
some challenges.)
Ok,
On 1 feb 2008, at 4:37, Dean Willis wrote:
Excuse me, but isn't this in the boonies way outside town? Are we
going to be stuck in a $200 a night hotel with no reasonable
alternative accommodations eating vastly overpriced hotel food and
facing a one-hour commute to anywhere else?
I agree
Ross Finlayson wrote:
Excuse me, but isn't this in the boonies way outside town? Are we
going to be stuck in a $200 a night hotel with no reasonable
alternative accommodations eating vastly overpriced hotel food and
facing a one-hour commute to anywhere else?
How easy will it be to commute
Excuse me, but isn't this in the boonies way outside town? Are we
going to be stuck in a $200 a night hotel with no reasonable
alternative accommodations eating vastly overpriced hotel food and
facing a one-hour commute to anywhere else?
How easy will it be to commute between the hotel and
On Feb 1, 2008 12:18 AM, Pekka Savola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Dean Willis wrote:
And no, I don't play golf, which appears to be the entire focus of
this sort of location.
This could be an opportunity to do something different. (Though I
agree that having the IETF on
Excerpts from Dean Willis on Thu, Jan 31, 2008 09:37:53PM -0600:
Excuse me, but isn't this in the boonies way outside town? Are we
going to be stuck in a $200 a night hotel with no reasonable
alternative accommodations eating vastly overpriced hotel food and
facing a one-hour commute to
Stephen Farrell wrote:
Ross Finlayson wrote:
How easy will it be to commute between the hotel and central Dublin
(e.g., if we want to eat lunch or dinner somewhere other than the
hotel)?
You couldn't make lunch in the city centre from citywest. Dinner
should be ok, even if it
A quick google search finds multiple restaurants in the villages of
Saggart (adjacent to the golf course) and Rathcoole (2k away)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/01/2008 08:43:12 AM:
--On Friday, 01 February, 2008 11:57 +0100 Jeroen Massar
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(e.g., if we want to
not even a consideration, this is business and business travel.
Thanks for the hard work.
/jim
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jari Arkko
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:29 AM
To: Dean Willis
Cc: IETF Discussion
Subject: Re: IETF 72
Jari Arkko wrote:
Dean,
We should know by now that isolated resorts ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE as
meeting locations.
Er... like Dallas or San Diego?
I've never been to Dublin and I don't know what exists on site. Maybe
some locals could tell us?
Actually, I think the hotel should be
Dean,
We should know by now that isolated resorts ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE as
meeting locations.
Er... like Dallas or San Diego?
I've never been to Dublin and I don't know what exists on site. Maybe
some locals could tell us? Also, as has happened in a number of IETFs so
far (like in Dallas),
At 10:28 AM 2/1/2008, Jari Arkko wrote:
Dean,
We should know by now that isolated resorts ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE as
meeting locations.
Er... like Dallas or San Diego?
Jari
Dallas was supposed to be New Orleans until a little catastrophe
called Katrina happened there and a secondary city
PROTECTED]
+1 602 493 8438
please save a tree by not printing this e-mail.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Dean Willis
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:38 PM
To: Ray Pelletier
Cc: IETF Discussion
Subject: Re: IETF 72
. We will stay focused on that target.
Ray
/jim
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jari Arkko
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:29 AM
To: Dean Willis
Cc: IETF Discussion
Subject: Re: IETF 72 -- Dublin!
Dean,
We should know
Janet P Gunn wrote:
A quick google search finds multiple restaurants in the villages
of Saggart (adjacent to the golf course) and Rathcoole (2k away)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=lq=restaurantnear=53.282972,-6.442966ll=53.282972,-6.442966z=13
Better don't try that with Google maps... ;-)
On Feb 1, 2008, at 2:18 AM, Pekka Savola wrote:
Ok, hands up (off-list) everyone who's interested in an IETF golf
competition or just casual golf :-) ?
Ok, if IETFers are playing golf en-masse, I'm bringing a video camera
to the first hole to film tee-off bloopers.
I was traumatized for
Stuart and Ray,
I called the hotel directly to make my reservations. Just mentioned
the IETF and got the group rate. Note that $130 is for a single room -
I was quoted $160 for two people (Ray, is that correct?). Also, I was
told that cancellation is 48 hours with with no penalties.
Cheers,
Andrew G. Malis wrote:
Stuart and Ray,
I called the hotel directly to make my reservations. Just mentioned
the IETF and got the group rate. Note that $130 is for a single room -
I was quoted $160 for two people (Ray, is that correct?).
160 is correct for the Double Rate.
Also, I was
Ray,
Thanks - and also thanks to everyone that pointed out that I used $
when I meant € ... just typing too fast for my own good.
Cheers,
Andy
On Feb 1, 2008 3:28 PM, Ray Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Andrew G. Malis wrote:
Stuart and Ray,
I called the hotel directly to make my
The IAOC is pleased to announce Dublin as the site for IETF 72 from 27
July to 1 Aug 2008. This will be the first time the IETF has held its
meeting in Ireland.
The venue will be the beautiful Citywest Hotel, Ireland’s premier
Conference, Leisure Golf Resort and one of Europe’s most popular
On Jan 31, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Ray Pelletier wrote:
The venue will be the beautiful Citywest Hotel, Ireland’s premier
Conference, Leisure Golf Resort and one of Europe’s most popular
International Conference destinations. The four star Citywest Hotel
is only 20km from Dublin airport and
Greetings,
Just a quick question...
On Thursday 31 January 2008 22.56.12 Ray Pelletier wrote:
Rooms are 130 EUR which includes breakfast and Internet access. Only
1,000 rooms have been reserved on the peak nights. Don't get shut out!
I don't see a promotion code or the like that we're
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