Not Listening to the Ops Customer (was Re: Issues in wider geographic participation)

2013-05-31 Thread Randy Bush
rant the sad fact is that the ietf culture is often not very good at listening to the (ops) customer. look at the cf we have made out of ipv6. the end user, and the op, want the absolute minimal change and cost, let me get an ipv6 allocation from the integer rental monopoly, flip a switch or

Re: Not Listening to the Ops Customer (was Re: Issues in wider geographic participation)

2013-05-31 Thread manning bill
amen! :) On 31May2013Friday, at 17:23, Randy Bush wrote: rant the sad fact is that the ietf culture is often not very good at listening to the (ops) customer. look at the cf we have made out of ipv6. the end user, and the op, want the absolute minimal change and cost, let me get an

Re: [IETF] Not Listening to the Ops Customer (was Re: Issues in wider geographic participation)

2013-05-31 Thread Warren Kumari
On May 31, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: rant the sad fact is that the ietf culture is often not very good at listening to the (ops) customer. look at the cf we have made out of ipv6. the end user, and the op, want the absolute minimal change and cost, let me get

Re: [IETF] Not Listening to the Ops Customer (was Re: Issues in wider geographic participation)

2013-05-31 Thread Masataka Ohta
Warren Kumari wrote: Unfortunately the was a bad case of creeping featuritis and we got: A new, and unfortunately very complex way of resolving L2 addresses. You may use ARP (and DHCP) with IPv6. Extension headers that make it so you cannot actually forward packets in modern hardware (

Re: Not Listening to the Ops Customer (was Re: Issues in wider geographic participation)

2013-05-31 Thread John C Klensin
--On Friday, May 31, 2013 17:23 -0700 Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: rant the sad fact is that the ietf culture is often not very good at listening to the (ops) customer. look at the cf we have made out of ipv6. the end user, and the op, want the absolute minimal change and cost,

Re: Not Listening to the Ops Customer (was Re: Issues in wider geographic participation)

2013-05-31 Thread Masataka Ohta
John C Klensin wrote: Similarly, various applications folks within the IETF have pointed out repeatedly that any approach that assigns multiple addresses, associated with different networks and different policies and properties, either requires the applications to understand those policies,