Re: ietf@ietf.org is a failure

2013-06-09 Thread Randy Bush
> I'm not sure how the desire for IETF Last Call discussions to be on a > dedicated and constrained mailing list many years ago, a housing development thought they had a bad crime rate. so they built a fence around it and only let residents in. the crime rate stayed the same. funny thing. procm

Re: ietf@ietf.org is a failure

2013-06-08 Thread Brian E Carpenter
On 09/06/2013 13:20, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not sure how the desire for IETF Last Call discussions > to be on a dedicated and constrained mailing list in any way > implies that this generalized and unconstrained list is somehow a failure. > > Filtering by subject line is unreliable. >

Re: ietf@ietf.org is a failure

2013-06-08 Thread Andy Bierman
Hi, I'm not sure how the desire for IETF Last Call discussions to be on a dedicated and constrained mailing list in any way implies that this generalized and unconstrained list is somehow a failure. Filtering by subject line is unreliable. For example, please provide a filter that will not have a

Re: ietf@ietf.org is a failure

2013-06-08 Thread Brian E Carpenter
On 09/06/2013 07:55, Melinda Shore wrote: > On 6/8/13 10:09 AM, SM wrote: >> As an off-topic comment, there are are alternative ways in making a >> decision; the best judgement of the most experienced or IETF Consensus. > > I don't think it's off-topic. Consensus (rough or otherwise) requires > t

Re: ietf@ietf.org is a failure

2013-06-08 Thread Melinda Shore
On 6/8/13 10:09 AM, SM wrote: > As an off-topic comment, there are are alternative ways in making a > decision; the best judgement of the most experienced or IETF Consensus. I don't think it's off-topic. Consensus (rough or otherwise) requires that at some point people can live with decisions wit

ietf@ietf.org is a failure (was: Weekly posting summary for ietf@ietf.org)

2013-06-08 Thread SM
rs, working group Chairs and the responsible Area Director are presumed to see all such messages. Is posting the summary list ranking a form of intimidation? I don't know. If ietf@ietf.org is a failure as significant issues are not showing up on the list (see quoted text above) or if t