Re: FW: DELIVERY FAILURE: User socialevent (socialevent@marconi.com) not listed in public Name Address Book
Glenn Parsons wrote: Folks, I just tried to send a message to Marconi (to the address indicated on the IETF 48 social site) querying about tax being charged on the social event when you reserve on the website. I received the following NDN. Has anyone else tried this address? Thanks, Glenn. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2000 2:35 pm To: Parsons, Glenn Subject:DELIVERY FAILURE: User socialevent ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) not listed in public Name Address Book Your message Subject: IETF social fee was not delivered to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] because: User socialevent ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) not listed in public Name Address Book Yep. Tried Monday and this AM - got the same message. Had problems with my reservations too. -- Jonathan Buschmann Siemens Information and Communication Networks S.p.A. CLTB, Cascina Castelletto, 20019 Settimo Milanese (Mi) Italy Phone: (+39-2)43888754 Fax: (+39-2)43887989 [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Sometimes when you fill a vacuum, it still sucks." - Dennis Ritchie
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Provided your message fits into 160 characters. - --murton - -Original Message- From: Graham Klyne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 05 July 2000 17:59 To: Vernon Schryver Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... At 07:22 PM 7/4/00 -0600, Vernon Schryver wrote: If you are only using your cell phone screen for text messages, why do you need WAP? You don't. (My phone isn't a WAP phone, but it does do SMS.) #g - Graham Klyne ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBOWKs19dTCRmPZunGEQLMSQCgrVUEojnTxFFatkC6iVRx1rLfliQAoNtF c2Ct0TnhNg8gkjqg27d07h9U =eINA -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
Well I guess when you look at multiple technologies like VR (voice recognition), VN (voice navigation), IA (intelligent agents), WAP of course, Then you begin to see the relationships and importance of wireless applications. I concur with you on the point of land optics however the average person requires remote and mobile access to their corporate networks, intra-nets, extra-nets, and value-added-networks. Therefore one could conclude that wireless access will have a main space within future technologies. In addition to this point I would like to also state WAP is the front runner in regards to linking wireless apps to the Global Internet and her sub-nets. Also, I would like to re-reference you to understanding Teledesic's network model. This is where you can clearly see the wireless model @ work. In closing, I would ask that you stay aware of WAP for this is not a govt technology, it was formulated from people like you, me, the members of IETF! And it will play a major role in all of our lives from a protocol stand point. Video to Video, Voice to Text, Broadcast to IP, Data to Voice = WAP(Display) Coming From The Brain, JT -Original Message- From: Anthony Atkielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 1:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... thats why intelsat and a cosortium of telcos has a charity that built a box that is solar powered and provides n gsm phones access + 1 64kbps uplink/ downlink to geostatinary atellites So that's what, 64/5 = 13 kbps per user? Even as current Internet designs require ever more bandwidth and strain even multi-megabit connections? And has anyone considered what happens when you have 6 million active ground transceivers trying to communicate with a single satellite? actualyl, a LOT of places that are really poor in the world dont even have electricty- but they can get batteries and if they use sms (e.g. for calling emergency service/flying doctors/vets etc), they can make them last quite a long time Why use SMS instead of just voice? Has anyone considered the ergonomics of WAP? Even if it works perfectly, how many people are willing to work on a screen smaller than a credit card? How many people are capable of touch-typing on a keyboard with only ten soft keys that must be pressed in various arcane combinations for almost ever letter? It just doesn't make intuitive sense. Anyway, I have a really good instinct for picking technology winners, and thus far I put WAP in the same category as MiniDiscs, bubble memory, color fax machines, and quadraphonic sound. I think the growth area is in broadband land-based links; I don't understand why people have flown off on tangents towards wireless when land links are just starting to come into their own. I suspect it is more politically motivated than technically motivated, and that is one reason why I think it will fail. A lot of time and effort is being wasted on WAP.
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
I like that close! -Original Message- From: Gilbert Cattoire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 1:12 PM To: Anthony Atkielski; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... At 18:29 +0200 29/06/00, Anthony Atkielski wrote: I don't understand why so much effort is expended on things like WAP when 99% of the real world still doesn't have any access at all to the Internet, much less wireless access. And even of those who do, most have such slow connections that even download a simple test page is an ordeal. Refreshing... I know it's not very sexy to drop the blue-sky toys, but doesn't anyone ever work on improving and democratizing existing infrastructure instead of widening the gap between what people really have and what looks cool in the lab? Yes indeed. It would be interesting to know how many of us on this list agree with you. Yet again, as I just mentioned in an earlier post, isn't it a matter regarding business models rather than technology? What looks cool in the lab is quite often related to what is dear to investors'eyes. WAP is just such a thing, regardless of technical niceties : a closed proprietary system built for a closed business model blessed with himalayan piles of cash. Is it healthy ? With the Internet spirit in mind, does anyone need to dwell in the intricacies of gateways and so on to answer this question ? I would suggest this daring task : when in doubt, reboot your mindset. best to all, Gilbert Cattoire == +33 (0)6 08 35 15 82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
Great Catch. It doesn't get any more Mobile on the Internet then that! -Original Message- From: Parkinson, Jonathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 8:24 AM To: 'Lars-Erik Jonsson'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Is WAP mobile Internet?? Okay WAP at the moment is only in its baby stage, hence a few mobile phones have it and a few other devices, and yes at the moment its not very good, but that's because of the current technology. I know I keep going on about it, but, I'm sure Bluetooth can and will change the way people use WAP and as the applications become Bluetooth enabled, WAP is a perfect way of transmitting data. Have a look at http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid%5F791000/791297.stm Sony has said It is planning to put the Bluetooth short range wireless technology in almost every gadget it produces making it easier to get at data in any device, whether that is messages, music or video. IE Walkmans, laptops, digital cameras and even electronic pets like the Aibo robotic. WAP will be a perfect side technology for this. 'This is just my opinion and not that of Compaq's (Yet :-))' -Original Message- From: Lars-Erik Jonsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 12:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Is WAP mobile Internet?? Hi Folks!! I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about what it is. Cheers! /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions)
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
Good Point I will tap into Japan Wireless infra-structure! -Original Message- From: Renfield Kuroda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is WAP mobile Internet?? I don't think WAP Mobile Internet any more than TCP/IP is Internet. The Mobile Internet is data/communication devices you carry around with you. Here in Japan we have 8 million non-WAP mobile internet users, plus another 2 million WAP users, and the numbers are exploding. But, and I know this may be the wrong mailing list for this comment, the point is a non-technical one. Users don't care if it's WAP/WML, or cHTML or MML or text SMS, on a cdmaONE network, PDC-P, or what. Technically, I think many agree that WAP and its various technical standards are ill-conceived and poorly executed, but that doesn't mean the potential of the Mobile Internet isn't there. I personally think if WAP migrated to xHTML and operators looked at the successes here in Japan, than the next generation of WAP phones (or whatever you call them) really can and will be Mobile Internet. Regards, r e n Lars-Erik Jonsson wrote: Hi Folks!! I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about what it is. Cheers! /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions) -- ascii: r e n f i e l d octal: \162 \145 \156 \146 \151 \145 \154 \144 hex: \x72 \x65 \x6e \x66 \x69 \x65 \x6c \x64 morgan stanley dean witter japan e-business technologies | engineering and strategy
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
The Internet allows all protocols to in-operate with her. This is the uniqueness of the web. Therefore WAP falls within this area! -Original Message- From: Lars-Erik Jonsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 7:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Is WAP mobile Internet?? Hi Folks!! I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about what it is. Cheers! /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions)
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
"Taylor, Johnny" wrote: In addition to this point I would like to also state WAP is the front runner in regards to linking wireless apps to the Global Internet and her sub-nets. I'd have to disagree there. The 8 million non-WAP users in Japan are unarguably enjoying the most prolific, robust, and deep wireless Internet available today. Regards, r e n -- ascii: r e n f i e l d octal: \162 \145 \156 \146 \151 \145 \154 \144 hex: \x72 \x65 \x6e \x66 \x69 \x65 \x6c \x64 ** note new work email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
I concur with you on the point of land optics however the average person requires remote and mobile access to their corporate networks, intra-nets, extra-nets, and value-added-networks. The average person doesn't use any of these networks, and so does not require access to them. There are still too many people (_most_ people, in fact) who do not have an e-mail address. Therefore one could conclude that wireless access will have a main space within future technologies. Some sort of wireless access to the Internet will surely have a place in the future. Beyond that, I wouldn't make any specific predictions about what form it might take. In addition to this point I would like to also state WAP is the front runner in regards to linking wireless apps to the Global Internet and her sub-nets. I'm not sure what you mean by "Global Internet," since I'm not aware of any other kind of Internet. Also, in English, inanimate objects and concepts take the neuter gender, not the female gender, so the Internet is "it," not "she." Also, I would like to re-reference you to understanding Teledesic's network model. Satellites in low orbit providing two-way communication with a vast number of ground stations, right? What else is there to it? This is where you can clearly see the wireless model @ work. Has this wireless network actually been implemented? Last I heard of anything coming close was Iridium, and we know what happened to that. In closing, I would ask that you stay aware of WAP for this is not a govt technology, it was formulated from people like you, me, the members of IETF! I'm as aware of it as I was of MiniDiscs and Betamax. When and if it moves to the mainstream (something I do not really expect at this point), I'll consider it in greater detail. One thing I'd like to know is: Is WAP a response to user demands for wireless Net access from credit-card-sized terminals, or is WAP something that looked like it would be cool to implement that the inventors and their marketroids are now trying to sell to others? And it will play a major role in all of our lives from a protocol stand point. Just like Picturephone service and DIVX. Video to Video, Voice to Text, Broadcast to IP, Data to Voice = WAP(Display) I don't see the two killer apps here--e-mail and the Web--unless they are disguised in terminology somewhere in there. I'm not even convinced of the practicality of those, however, on terminals that are ergonomically unsuitable to either.
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
Well the web is indeed the Internet we are talking about The Internet is an internet, but an internet is not an Internet always Ashutosh Agarwal e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Change your thoughts and you change your world. The Buddha -Original Message- From: Lars-Erik Jonsson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 6:48 PM To: Taylor, Johnny; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is WAP mobile Internet?? The Web is NOT the Internet. The Web is one Internet application. /L-E The Internet allows all protocols to in-operate with her. This is the uniqueness of the web. Therefore WAP falls within this area! -Original Message- From: Lars-Erik Jonsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 7:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Is WAP mobile Internet?? Hi Folks!! I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about what it is. Cheers! /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions)
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
I disagree, WAP, Wireless Application Protocol, Its a way of transmitting data I.E. to and from the Web. How does this not fall under the Internet Umbrella ? Thanks Jon -Original Message- From: Ashutosh Agarwal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 2:25 PM To: 'Taylor, Johnny' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Is WAP mobile Internet?? Hi all, I fully agree with Lars. Even I believe WAP does not fall under the Internet Umbrella Ashutosh Agarwal e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Change your thoughts and you change your world. The Buddha -Original Message- From: Taylor, Johnny [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 12:15 AM To: Lars-Erik Jonsson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Is WAP mobile Internet?? The Internet allows all protocols to in-operate with her. This is the uniqueness of the web. Therefore WAP falls within this area! -Original Message- From: Lars-Erik Jonsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 7:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Is WAP mobile Internet?? Hi Folks!! I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about what it is. Cheers! /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions)
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
if i have a device which can only send and receive email, am i "on the internet?" if i have a device that lets me send and receive messages to/from internet users, am i "on the internet" note that sms with a gateway satisfies the last one. my point is not to push sms or whatever. but that by "on the internet" i think we mean having unincumbered availability of the common application protocols, email, http, ftp, ssh, ... i may not choose to use/install them all, but the commumications technology i use (note this did not say the end device) should not prevent me from doing so. e.g. that one-chip web server, with no human interface, is indeed "on the internet." a wap phone is not internet, it's waporware tm! randy
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Stewart Nolan wrote: The web sits atop the internet, as do the protocols mentioned, as does WAP. Yes - the Internet in my mind is just a collection of protocols, be they what they may. Over what physical medium data travel is irrelevant, but doesn't the term "on the Internet" mean the object can query and be queryied, over this infrastructure? -- steven
(no subject)
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
--Original Message- -From: Jon Crowcroft [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 11:19 AM -To: Parkinson, Jonathan -Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: Is WAP mobile Internet?? - - - -In message -[EMAIL PROTECTED], -"Parkinson, Jonathan" typed: - - I disagree, WAP, Wireless Application Protocol, Its a way -of transmitting - data I.E. to and from the Web. How does this not fall -under the Internet - Umbrella ? - -1 youcan't get at an arbirtrary web page -2/ you can't get at an arbitraty application written on TCP/IP or -UDP/IP Jon, I wonder how WAP will fit into Multicast apps - even if its single line txt based msg's app ? /pd
Re: Is WAP mobile Internet??
Jon, I wonder how WAP will fit into Multicast apps - even if its single line txt based msg's app ? football scores/(tennis etc) share price (look at stockbroker trading terminal - they have very small amount of realestate for the given instrument) many many things would work v. well - iff you had full ip capability... i guess you'd need an rtp mixer capability in the net for packet ip multiast as mixing at the receiver might stress the limited capacity...although as next generation rolls out, this might change too then ip voice conferencing using multicast (which kind of maps well onto real shared capacity channels anyhow) would be quite cute... a lot of sip stuff would be v. cute too (a lot of fancy call handling scripting things would be dead useful to be able to download onto the phone.)... cheers jon
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
From: Lloyd Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... my point is not to push sms or whatever. but that by "on the internet" i think we mean having unincumbered availability of the common application protocols, email, http, ftp, ssh, ... that's not quite enough; in the UK we're seeing cable-modem ISPs attempt to restrict services to those applications, or to a subset of those applications (lotsa luck setting up an http server or using ssh.) ... and also like AOL's redirecting proxies for out-bound SMTP? and the port-25 filtering of many ISP's including UUNET? Vernon Schryver[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
Vernon, would pacbell filtering all multicast at all CPE equipemt fall into your bucket, where do you draw the line? -rick On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Vernon Schryver wrote: From: Lloyd Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... my point is not to push sms or whatever. but that by "on the internet" i think we mean having unincumbered availability of the common application protocols, email, http, ftp, ssh, ... that's not quite enough; in the UK we're seeing cable-modem ISPs attempt to restrict services to those applications, or to a subset of those applications (lotsa luck setting up an http server or using ssh.) ... and also like AOL's redirecting proxies for out-bound SMTP? and the port-25 filtering of many ISP's including UUNET? Vernon Schryver[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: FC: Pittsburgh politicos don't like criticism at anonymous web site
News from our host city... Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 00:14:02 -0700 Subject: Online criticism of politicians draws lawsuit From: Jack Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Online criticism of politicians draws lawsuit City: Pittsburgh, State: PA, Country: United States Government officials in Pittsburgh have launched a courtroom assault on a Web site that allows citizens to anonymously criticize the authorities. (6/30/00) URL: http://www.tribunereview.com/news/pgs0630.html -- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ -- Please Note New Contact Information: Richard Shockey Shockey Consulting LLC 5237 Sutherland St. Louis, MO 63109 Voice 314.503.0640 eFAX Fax to EMail 815.333.1237 (Preferred for Fax) INTERNET Mail IFAX : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is WAP mobile Internet??
* From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Jul 5 08:58:47 2000 * To: "Parkinson, Jonathan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] * cc: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Subject: Re: Is WAP mobile Internet?? * In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jul 2000 15:15:13 BST." [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 16:19:23 +0100 * From: Jon Crowcroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] * X-Loop: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Content-Length: 3148 * X-Lines: 95 * * * In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], * "Parkinson, Jonathan" typed: * * I disagree, WAP, Wireless Application Protocol, Its a way of transmitting * data I.E. to and from the Web. How does this not fall under the Internet * Umbrella ? * Jon Postel would have said: If it speaks IP (UDP/TCP are not necessary), then it's Internet, else not. However, during the 1980s the IAB tried to float the concept of an extended Internet defined by email connectivity. Bob Braden
Re: Is WAP mobile Internet??
Jon Postel would have said: If it speaks IP (UDP/TCP are not necessary), then it's Internet, else not. I thought part of the argument was about capitalization of the I. if its lowercase, then its using IP, if its uppercase then you can expect to use global Internet addresses and achieve a substantive amount of end-to-end connectivity. Of course, that was before NAT. However, during the 1980s the IAB tried to float the concept of an extended Internet defined by email connectivity. Is this different to John Quartermains Matrix definition? Gosh, how prescient to choose that word... -George -- George Michaelson | DSTC Pty Ltd Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| University of Qld 4072 Phone: +61 7 3365 4310| Australia Fax: +61 7 3365 4311| http://www.dstc.edu.au
