Hello,
I wonder if anyone has documented the situation of the IETF wireless
network and analyzed the experienced difficulties? I'd be interested
in looking at the causes of the difficulties. There's a lot of anecdotal
information about the capabilities of the protocols and advice on what
to do on
Just as a whimsical notion would it be possible to, ah, invite
some of the 802.11* wireless committees to have a colocated meeting
with the IETF at some point in the future? We could dangle the offer
of free wireless networking, plus an offer for them to see what a
real-life, large-scale
Jari,
I will be working on a summary document that pulls together the technical
items we witnessed at the meeting.
--Brett
On Wednesday 19 November 2003 08:15, Jari Arkko wrote:
Hello,
I wonder if anyone has documented the situation of the IETF wireless
network and analyzed the
I am hoping to get this done in time for IETF 59, but with current workload
here at the IETF, I am going to aim for 60.
1) Make a form used for meetings where people can submit wireless reports.
Require certain data be submitted (Location, computer, NIC, user)
2) Make a form where people can
At 08:15 AM 11/19/2003, Jari Arkko wrote...
Say, its pretty useless to authenticate beacons if
the radios are simply swamped by too many nodes who think they are
access points
This is not a technical issue. By taking advantage of unlicensed frequencies,
802.1a/b/g must not cause interference
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Theodore Ts'o writes:
It might be interesting to let the 802.11i folks see what life with
unathenticated radio beacons is really like. :-)
You mean invite them to SAAG and tell the obvious people that it's open
season? Nasty
--Steve
Proposals for making email addresses fully internationalized were a hot
topic in Minneapolis. I'd like to suggest a more modest reform: fully
internationalized IETF name badges. IETF 59 might be a fine venue for
rolling those out...
Peter
--
Peter Saint-Andre
Jabber Software Foundation
I am still collecting data from the IETF 58 network, when I can state
additional facts I will post them along this thread. Until then, here are
some facts that correct messages posted previously.
All wireless access points were set at 1 milliwatt on channel 6 when they were
first deployed.
Brett Thorson wrote:
Jari,
I will be working on a summary document that pulls together the technical
items we witnessed at the meeting.
Great, thanks!
Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you and the
rest of the folks who set up the networks for our meetings.
The networks have
Masataka Ohta [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Because of exponential backoff, aggregated bandwidth of multiple TCP
over congested WLAN should not be so bad.
However, RED like approach to attempt retries only a few times may be
a good strategy to improve latency.
A RED approach would be good, but
Peter,
PSA Proposals for making email addresses fully internationalized were a hot
PSA topic in Minneapolis. I'd like to suggest a more modest reform: fully
PSA internationalized IETF name badges. IETF 59 might be a fine venue for
PSA rolling those out...
I think that enhanced character sets
As for the network: Vienna has shown that it's possible to do better.
At the same time, with 1000+ people in a room performance isn't going
to be great. Poor network performance during plenaries and other
crowded sessions isn't the end of the world as long as the network
functions well
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
As long as we're bitching about the network: would it be possible to
start doing some unicast streaming of sessions in the future? Access to
multicast hasn't gotten significantly better the past decade, but
streaming over unicast is now
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Kevin C. Almeroth wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
As long as we're bitching about the network: would it be possible to
start doing some unicast streaming of sessions in the future? Access to
multicast hasn't gotten significantly better the
On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:21:59AM -0800, Kevin C. Almeroth wrote:
It might be a good idea to stop comparing Minneapolis to Vienna. Vienna
had a host and Minneapolis did not.
And a host that did not document what it did for the WLAN provision,
despute requests to do so.
Tim
--On Wednesday, November 19, 2003 09:03 -0800 Dave Crocker
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peter,
PSA Proposals for making email addresses fully
internationalized were a hot PSA topic in Minneapolis. I'd
like to suggest a more modest reform: fully PSA
internationalized IETF name badges. IETF 59
I don't think so, sorry. The network setup is not different (it should not be), if we
have a host or not. I'm convinced the secretariat has the expertise to do it well. We
have been in the same hotel other times, and it worked fine. We just need to discover
exactly what happened, and most
There is a better solution. I've seen already IPv6 enabled badges !
We used it in one of the IPv6 Forum conferences ... last June in San Diego.
- Original Message -
From: John C Klensin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Dave Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL
Perry;
Because of exponential backoff, aggregated bandwidth of multiple TCP
over congested WLAN should not be so bad.
However, RED like approach to attempt retries only a few times may be
a good strategy to improve latency.
A RED approach would be good, but in general there has to be a limit
on
--On Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:15 -0800 Fred Baker
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 08:23 AM 11/19/2003, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
Proposals for making email addresses fully internationalized
were a hot topic in Minneapolis. I'd like to suggest a more
modest reform: fully internationalized
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
| Keith,
|
| I'm not sure if you are joking, but I think is an excellent idea ...
|
| A badge communication protocol ... if you start with the draft, I will
be happy to contribute !
|
bcp?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
On 19-nov-03, at 18:03, Dave Crocker wrote:
I think that enhanced character sets is a perfect topic for having the
IETF eat its own dogfood. Just dealing with the details of the name
tags might well prove instructive to us, nevermind the basic
politeness
it offers to attendees.
Easy to say
On 19-nov-03, at 17:45, Perry E.Metzger wrote:
However, RED like approach to attempt retries only a few times may be
a good strategy to improve latency.
A RED approach would be good,
15 authors of RFC 2309 can't be wrong. :-)
but in general there has to be a limit
on the queue. Your wireless
Let's keep going.
I'd contribute, say, $25, plus write some code towards getting a barcode
reader (or, maybe RFID??) for each meeting room that would be used to
swipe in and automate the blue sheets.
Brian
-Original Message-
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It should be RFID, cheaper, and easier, not only for the blue sheets.
The badge could be pre-configured with the data from our own IETF registration.
The badge will store the names of the people who we have been talking during the week,
and data like when, how much time, We can then use an
On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:26:30AM -0500, Brett Thorson wrote:
10% of the community using a wireless NIC was operating in ad-hoc or AP mode
at some point during the meeting.
Would it be possible to publish a list of MAC addresses that were
operating in ad-hoc or AP mode? If all of the
Iljitsch van Beijnum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think there is some middle ground between 25000 and 10 ms.
10ms is the middle ground. That's enough for a bunch of retransmits on
modern hardware. Coupled with aggressive FEC, that's more than enough
time.
But the problem with sharing the
Anyone is interested to help me to write a protocol
for the Rf ID?
Thanks in advance
giuseppe canale
If we do this, it should be WE (the IETF engineers) that do it and NOT
another thing we request the secretariat to do. We should eat our own
dogfood by writing, testing and then GIVING an implementation that is
compatible with the current label making system to the secretariat.
It's probably not
On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 04:57 PM, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
Would it be possible to publish a list of MAC addresses that were
operating in ad-hoc or AP mode?
I'll confess - it happened to me. 12 PowerBook running MacOS X 10.2.8.
It was flipping into ad-hoc mode pretty much every time I
On 19-nov-03, at 23:16, Perry E.Metzger wrote:
I think there is some middle ground between 25000 and 10 ms.
10ms is the middle ground. That's enough for a bunch of retransmits on
modern hardware.
Retransmits on what type of hardware? At 1 Mbps transmitting a 1500
byte packet already takes 12
Someone can complain about privacy issues, but I feel that is the same now whe
n the blue sheet is circulated, or the attendance list is in the web site, rig
ht ?
Count me as one of the complainants.
The big problem with RFID is that your identity is exposed at times
when you don't want it to
At 10:41 AM -0500 11/19/03, Brett Thorson wrote:
I am hoping to get this done in time for IETF 59, but with current workload
here at the IETF, I am going to aim for 60.
Something else to add to the list: make software available for
popular OS's that help the NOC team document the problems. For
Please see http://www.imc.org/ietf-aulli/index.html for info on joining;
aulli will discuss how proposals like HIP, MAST, NoID, et al. will affect
the Applications layer and end users.
Ted Hardie
Iljitsch van Beijnum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 19-nov-03, at 23:16, Perry E.Metzger wrote:
I think there is some middle ground between 25000 and 10 ms.
10ms is the middle ground. That's enough for a bunch of retransmits on
modern hardware.
Retransmits on what type of hardware? At 1
Fred,
FB What I would suggest, if we do this, is writing the person's name *twice*:
FB once in their native character set, and once in a form that an
FB english-reader can read. The latter is an established interchange architecture
I believe that was the intention in the proposal. List names
Iljitsch;
I think there is some middle ground between 25000 and 10 ms.
10ms is the middle ground. That's enough for a bunch of retransmits on
modern hardware.
Retransmits on what type of hardware? At 1 Mbps transmitting a 1500 byte
packet already takes 12 ms, without any link layer overhead,
Proposals for making email addresses fully internationalized were a
hot topic in Minneapolis. I'd like to suggest a more modest reform:
fully internationalized IETF name badges. IETF 59 might be a fine
venue for rolling those out...
I'd love to see an Internet-Draft on the topic. For
I'm not sure if you are joking, but I think is an excellent idea ...
A badge communication protocol ... if you start with the draft, I will
be happy to contribute !
I'm working on lots of other things, and somehow I suspect that others
are more qualified than I am to get this rolling.
The
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:44:09 PST, Ole J. Jacobsen said:
line printers any more, but you get the idea :-) [If anyone still
remembers how to make a line printer attached to an IBM 370 do this by
sending just the right sort of code, you get extra points].
The IBM 1403 printer (1200 lines per
I think having the punycode form have no value on a name badge.
Punycode, as it is designed, is meant for machine-to-machine communication.
But I like the idea of allowing participation to put their own native
names together with their ASCII version on the name badge especially for
the next
% Anyone is interested to help me to write a protocol for the Rf ID?
% Thanks in advance
%
% giuseppe canale
what kind of protocol did you have in mind? you might want
to review the EPC or auto-id center web pages to see what
has already been done in this area.
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