Re: New Year's Exploration: Changing the Internet's Infrastructure

2011-01-15 Thread Dave CROCKER
On 12/31/2010 6:56 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote: So I would like to ask for folks to help the community develop some concrete information about this, by adding entries and comments to the IETF's Outcomes Wiki: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/misc/outcomes/[2] ... Some infrastructure changes are

Re: New Year's Exploration: Changing the Internet's Infrastructure

2011-01-01 Thread t.petch
- Original Message - From: John Leslie j...@jlc.net To: Richard L. Barnes rbar...@bbn.com Cc: IETF Discussion ietf@ietf.org Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 7:38 PM Richard L. Barnes rbar...@bbn.com wrote: ISTM that the success of changes to the infrastructure depends on the value

Re: New Year's Exploration: Changing the Internet's Infrastructure

2011-01-01 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
The fundamental problems that infrastructure changes face are cases where 1) Costs are borne by party X, benefits accrue to party Y 2) Costs pers user are independent of number of adopters, benefits are proportional to the number of adopters. The network effect is only a virtuous circle once

New Year's Exploration: Changing the Internet's Infrastructure

2010-12-31 Thread Dave CROCKER
Folks, Feliz Año Nuevo! One of the lessons of efforts such as IPv6 and DNSSEC should be that making changes to the global infrastructure of the Internet is extremely difficult. The technical details are difficult -- especially if the change seeks to work with an existing base of

Re: New Year's Exploration: Changing the Internet's Infrastructure

2010-12-31 Thread Richard L. Barnes
Hey Dave, I admire your desire for clarity on this subject, but fear you will be disappointed. ISTM that the success of changes to the infrastructure depends on the value those changes deliver to participants in the Internet economy -- i.e., the pain of the problem they solve. Your two

Re: New Year's Exploration: Changing the Internet's Infrastructure

2010-12-31 Thread John Leslie
Richard L. Barnes rbar...@bbn.com wrote: ISTM that the success of changes to the infrastructure depends on the value those changes deliver to participants in the Internet economy... So the question is rather how many problems there are in the current infrastructure that cause people enough