RE: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-27 Thread Hallam-Baker, Phillip
I don't think this is an issue worth objecting to. Complexity exists at many levels. There is complexity of specification and complexity of implementation. The two are not the same. I can imagine two reasons why I might want to have ASN.1 in XML. The first is that I want to use a single set of

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-27 Thread Randy Presuhn
Hi - From: Hallam-Baker, Phillip [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fred Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: ietf@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 6:45 AM Subject: RE: Protest: Complexity running rampant ... DER would not have been so bad if they had chosen

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-20 Thread Ted Hardie
At 9:49 AM -0500 2/19/07, John C Klensin wrote: For the record, I would have no problems with Informational or Experimental publication of this collection -- it is the proposed decision to standardize that bothers me. When I first discussed publication of this with the IESG, I pointed out that

Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Harald Alvestrand
My attention has recently been drawn to this set of documents: - draft-legg-xed-asd - draft-legg-xed-asd-gserei - draft-legg-xed-asd-xerei - draft-legg-xed-rxer - draft-legg-xed-rxer-ei It's, as far as I can tell, an attempt at a complete reimplementation of ASN.1 using XML. I was very

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Fred Baker
On Feb 19, 2007, at 1:55 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: My attention has recently been drawn to this set of documents: - draft-legg-xed-asd - draft-legg-xed-asd-gserei - draft-legg-xed-asd-xerei - draft-legg-xed-rxer - draft-legg-xed-rxer-ei It's, as far as I can tell, an attempt at a complete

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Harald Tveit Alvestrand
--On 19. februar 2007 02:40 -0800 Fred Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 19, 2007, at 1:55 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: My attention has recently been drawn to this set of documents: - draft-legg-xed-asd - draft-legg-xed-asd-gserei - draft-legg-xed-asd-xerei - draft-legg-xed-rxer -

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread John C Klensin
--On Monday, February 19, 2007 11:45 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having not read the above and not really caring much what happens in the layers up in the stratosphere as long as its designers don't by its sheer weight make the application unusable, is it a bad

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Tim Bray
On 2/19/07, John C Klensin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the record, I would have no problems with Informational or Experimental publication of this collection -- it is the proposed decision to standardize that bothers me. Exactly. Under no circumstances should it ever be OK to use IETF

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Dave Crocker
Fred Baker wrote: is it a bad thing to provide the expressive nature of ASN.1 in a human-readable and popular data representation? The one thing IETF standardization certainly ought to imply is that there is a real constituency interesting in using the specification in the near-term.

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Bob Braden
The one thing IETF standardization certainly ought to imply is that there is a real constituency interesting in using the specification in the near-term. Dave, Why is near term an essential requirement? If the Internet designers had opted for the near term, we would all be running some

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Dave Crocker
Bob Braden wrote: Why is near term an essential requirement? If the Internet designers had opted for the near term, we would all be running some flavor of X.25 today. Research vs. engineering. Standards are for engineering. When they don't solve near-term problems they tend not to

Re: Protest: Complexity running rampant

2007-02-19 Thread Andy Bierman
Dave Crocker wrote: Fred Baker wrote: is it a bad thing to provide the expressive nature of ASN.1 in a human-readable and popular data representation? The one thing IETF standardization certainly ought to imply is that there is a real constituency interesting in using the specification